Hello From Colorado 1983 F250

[T.P.Crockmier]

No, we don't have a recurving thread or page. Would be good to have a page on ignition timing spelling out initial, mechanical/centrifugal & vacuum advance, how to set/tune them, what they do, etc. And, a discussion of what EGR does to timing.

As for the carb, I agree. Out of the box was surely rich in Pueblo at almost 5000', so it may well have been rejetted. If not, it is probably going to need it.

Hey Guys,

There are just a few more of your points I'll address here before starting a new thread over in a different section about something specific, or maybe tomorrow I'll get some pictures pulled and start a project thread.

At any rate, starting from the top -

"But wherever you are in a 50 - 60 mile radius of Pueblo you live in a beautiful area." - I'm located in Boulder, CO 80305. The truck was in south east Denver when I found the listing.

"However, in my experience a 4160 out of the box is jetted fairly rich at sea level, and where you are it may be very rich unless the previous owner had it tuned." - The previous owner stepped out in front of a box truck on I25, so I'm unable to ask anyone about what may have been done. Investigating the carb to determine what I'm dealing with is definitely on the list.

"But I think you have a minor problem with your build - ignition timing." - I had read a little bit about Scotty and his re-curved distributors. The affect of the EGR on the timing wasn't something I had come across yet, so, much appreciated for putting this at the forefront of the ignition situation. I haven't needed to consider that quite yet, but as I get closer to making a decision on some of the ignition components, I'll definitely start looking into Scotty's shop and his experience with the 460. I've come across his stuff when looking into the heads, and he's very active on the Ford 460 forum.

"We'll probably need to discuss the fuel system when you get things back together. What you have is a complex system that is ok when everything works, but by now there are frequently problems." -

Definitely agree. All I know is it supplied enough to keep it running when I parked it. Naturally I'll check for function as I get closer to needing to start it, but right now getting it moving under it's own power is the priority. The space it currently occupies will likely be new bedrooms in about a year.

"A2A heads should have a volume of ~91.5 cc. I was wondering if you'd had the machine shop deck them to increase the pathetic CR?

Scott Johnston at Parkland Performance Machine has an online tutorial for home porting 460 heads.

If you're considering that, it is WELL worth the price of admission." - Heads were decked .008, mostly just to clean up the surface than an attempt to correct combustion chamber volume. The heads are back on the block, and in the interest of time (also a factor) we're gonna stick with 'em for now, but I have read up on Scotty's porting and I'll be keeping it as an option in the future.

"I suggest you get a non-EGR 1" spacer and work with that.

There's no good way to block the internal ports in the stock one, and it will cause vacuum leaks.(eventually)" - My understanding as of this point was that the carb can go straight on the top of the Non-EGR manifold without the need for a spacer. Incorporating a spacer will not be an issue, but I'm curious as to the need for a spacer on a non EGR manifold.

"What about the thermactor ports in the exhaust manifolds?

I'm assuming if the A.I.R. pumps are removed, the ports are capped?

Or do you have headers?" - The stock exhaust manifolds do not have any ports in them, so I'm unsure what you mean by this. I would love to do some stainless headers, but I don't have much experience with exhausts, I don't know how to weld, so whatever exhaust solution is devised pretty much needs to be a plug and play situation.

"What are you looking to know about the Hot Fuel Handling system?" - Basically just trying to figure out what it was. I was confused by all the references to the fuel pump eccentric and the fuel pump itself, so I started to learn about how my truck got fuel to the engine. I read about it in the Haynes, and then a brief google of it brought me here. I was pretty much just looking to read about how it worked, so when it comes time to diagnose or modify it, I at least knew what I was looking at and how the pieces interact.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hey Guys,

There are just a few more of your points I'll address here before starting a new thread over in a different section about something specific, or maybe tomorrow I'll get some pictures pulled and start a project thread.

At any rate, starting from the top -

"But wherever you are in a 50 - 60 mile radius of Pueblo you live in a beautiful area." - I'm located in Boulder, CO 80305. The truck was in south east Denver when I found the listing.

"However, in my experience a 4160 out of the box is jetted fairly rich at sea level, and where you are it may be very rich unless the previous owner had it tuned." - The previous owner stepped out in front of a box truck on I25, so I'm unable to ask anyone about what may have been done. Investigating the carb to determine what I'm dealing with is definitely on the list.

"But I think you have a minor problem with your build - ignition timing." - I had read a little bit about Scotty and his re-curved distributors. The affect of the EGR on the timing wasn't something I had come across yet, so, much appreciated for putting this at the forefront of the ignition situation. I haven't needed to consider that quite yet, but as I get closer to making a decision on some of the ignition components, I'll definitely start looking into Scotty's shop and his experience with the 460. I've come across his stuff when looking into the heads, and he's very active on the Ford 460 forum.

"We'll probably need to discuss the fuel system when you get things back together. What you have is a complex system that is ok when everything works, but by now there are frequently problems." -

Definitely agree. All I know is it supplied enough to keep it running when I parked it. Naturally I'll check for function as I get closer to needing to start it, but right now getting it moving under it's own power is the priority. The space it currently occupies will likely be new bedrooms in about a year.

"A2A heads should have a volume of ~91.5 cc. I was wondering if you'd had the machine shop deck them to increase the pathetic CR?

Scott Johnston at Parkland Performance Machine has an online tutorial for home porting 460 heads.

If you're considering that, it is WELL worth the price of admission." - Heads were decked .008, mostly just to clean up the surface than an attempt to correct combustion chamber volume. The heads are back on the block, and in the interest of time (also a factor) we're gonna stick with 'em for now, but I have read up on Scotty's porting and I'll be keeping it as an option in the future.

"I suggest you get a non-EGR 1" spacer and work with that.

There's no good way to block the internal ports in the stock one, and it will cause vacuum leaks.(eventually)" - My understanding as of this point was that the carb can go straight on the top of the Non-EGR manifold without the need for a spacer. Incorporating a spacer will not be an issue, but I'm curious as to the need for a spacer on a non EGR manifold.

"What about the thermactor ports in the exhaust manifolds?

I'm assuming if the A.I.R. pumps are removed, the ports are capped?

Or do you have headers?" - The stock exhaust manifolds do not have any ports in them, so I'm unsure what you mean by this. I would love to do some stainless headers, but I don't have much experience with exhausts, I don't know how to weld, so whatever exhaust solution is devised pretty much needs to be a plug and play situation.

"What are you looking to know about the Hot Fuel Handling system?" - Basically just trying to figure out what it was. I was confused by all the references to the fuel pump eccentric and the fuel pump itself, so I started to learn about how my truck got fuel to the engine. I read about it in the Haynes, and then a brief google of it brought me here. I was pretty much just looking to read about how it worked, so when it comes time to diagnose or modify it, I at least knew what I was looking at and how the pieces interact.

 

I have an eccentric (mechanical pump)

I will say the FSM (factory service manual) is miles better than Haynes, with their generic explanations of things.

Because the carburetor will sit too low for the throttle cable to get a straight shot at it without a 1" spacer.

Also, Gary and I have both posted pictures of how we've had to modify the stock throttle cable bracket to fit Performer intakes.

It might be as easy as slotting the bolt holes, or it might be as complex as cutting it in half and welding it back together.

Gary and I seem to have diametric approaches to getting things done.

I'd also ask if your truck has speed control.

Because that bead chain adds another dimension to the cable bracket, if you do.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hey Guys,

There are just a few more of your points I'll address here before starting a new thread over in a different section about something specific, or maybe tomorrow I'll get some pictures pulled and start a project thread.

At any rate, starting from the top -

"But wherever you are in a 50 - 60 mile radius of Pueblo you live in a beautiful area." - I'm located in Boulder, CO 80305. The truck was in south east Denver when I found the listing.

"However, in my experience a 4160 out of the box is jetted fairly rich at sea level, and where you are it may be very rich unless the previous owner had it tuned." - The previous owner stepped out in front of a box truck on I25, so I'm unable to ask anyone about what may have been done. Investigating the carb to determine what I'm dealing with is definitely on the list.

"But I think you have a minor problem with your build - ignition timing." - I had read a little bit about Scotty and his re-curved distributors. The affect of the EGR on the timing wasn't something I had come across yet, so, much appreciated for putting this at the forefront of the ignition situation. I haven't needed to consider that quite yet, but as I get closer to making a decision on some of the ignition components, I'll definitely start looking into Scotty's shop and his experience with the 460. I've come across his stuff when looking into the heads, and he's very active on the Ford 460 forum.

"We'll probably need to discuss the fuel system when you get things back together. What you have is a complex system that is ok when everything works, but by now there are frequently problems." -

Definitely agree. All I know is it supplied enough to keep it running when I parked it. Naturally I'll check for function as I get closer to needing to start it, but right now getting it moving under it's own power is the priority. The space it currently occupies will likely be new bedrooms in about a year.

"A2A heads should have a volume of ~91.5 cc. I was wondering if you'd had the machine shop deck them to increase the pathetic CR?

Scott Johnston at Parkland Performance Machine has an online tutorial for home porting 460 heads.

If you're considering that, it is WELL worth the price of admission." - Heads were decked .008, mostly just to clean up the surface than an attempt to correct combustion chamber volume. The heads are back on the block, and in the interest of time (also a factor) we're gonna stick with 'em for now, but I have read up on Scotty's porting and I'll be keeping it as an option in the future.

"I suggest you get a non-EGR 1" spacer and work with that.

There's no good way to block the internal ports in the stock one, and it will cause vacuum leaks.(eventually)" - My understanding as of this point was that the carb can go straight on the top of the Non-EGR manifold without the need for a spacer. Incorporating a spacer will not be an issue, but I'm curious as to the need for a spacer on a non EGR manifold.

"What about the thermactor ports in the exhaust manifolds?

I'm assuming if the A.I.R. pumps are removed, the ports are capped?

Or do you have headers?" - The stock exhaust manifolds do not have any ports in them, so I'm unsure what you mean by this. I would love to do some stainless headers, but I don't have much experience with exhausts, I don't know how to weld, so whatever exhaust solution is devised pretty much needs to be a plug and play situation.

"What are you looking to know about the Hot Fuel Handling system?" - Basically just trying to figure out what it was. I was confused by all the references to the fuel pump eccentric and the fuel pump itself, so I started to learn about how my truck got fuel to the engine. I read about it in the Haynes, and then a brief google of it brought me here. I was pretty much just looking to read about how it worked, so when it comes time to diagnose or modify it, I at least knew what I was looking at and how the pieces interact.

 

Ah! So when the 460 was reintroduced is '83 it only had a single A.I.R. pump, going to the thermactor crossover?

Later models had two pumps.

One pouring more air into the exhaust manifolds to burn off excess CO.

There's no catalytic converter on these trucks, and there were stainless steel log manifolds that doubled up on the thermactor ports in the heads.

This got the cast iron manifolds and CRES headpipes incredibly hot.

When desmogging a later truck you need to cap these ports individually.

It also allows you to remove the valve covers.

Not sure what genius designed that setup.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Hey Guys,

There are just a few more of your points I'll address here before starting a new thread over in a different section about something specific, or maybe tomorrow I'll get some pictures pulled and start a project thread.

At any rate, starting from the top -

"But wherever you are in a 50 - 60 mile radius of Pueblo you live in a beautiful area." - I'm located in Boulder, CO 80305. The truck was in south east Denver when I found the listing.

"However, in my experience a 4160 out of the box is jetted fairly rich at sea level, and where you are it may be very rich unless the previous owner had it tuned." - The previous owner stepped out in front of a box truck on I25, so I'm unable to ask anyone about what may have been done. Investigating the carb to determine what I'm dealing with is definitely on the list.

"But I think you have a minor problem with your build - ignition timing." - I had read a little bit about Scotty and his re-curved distributors. The affect of the EGR on the timing wasn't something I had come across yet, so, much appreciated for putting this at the forefront of the ignition situation. I haven't needed to consider that quite yet, but as I get closer to making a decision on some of the ignition components, I'll definitely start looking into Scotty's shop and his experience with the 460. I've come across his stuff when looking into the heads, and he's very active on the Ford 460 forum.

"We'll probably need to discuss the fuel system when you get things back together. What you have is a complex system that is ok when everything works, but by now there are frequently problems." -

Definitely agree. All I know is it supplied enough to keep it running when I parked it. Naturally I'll check for function as I get closer to needing to start it, but right now getting it moving under it's own power is the priority. The space it currently occupies will likely be new bedrooms in about a year.

"A2A heads should have a volume of ~91.5 cc. I was wondering if you'd had the machine shop deck them to increase the pathetic CR?

Scott Johnston at Parkland Performance Machine has an online tutorial for home porting 460 heads.

If you're considering that, it is WELL worth the price of admission." - Heads were decked .008, mostly just to clean up the surface than an attempt to correct combustion chamber volume. The heads are back on the block, and in the interest of time (also a factor) we're gonna stick with 'em for now, but I have read up on Scotty's porting and I'll be keeping it as an option in the future.

"I suggest you get a non-EGR 1" spacer and work with that.

There's no good way to block the internal ports in the stock one, and it will cause vacuum leaks.(eventually)" - My understanding as of this point was that the carb can go straight on the top of the Non-EGR manifold without the need for a spacer. Incorporating a spacer will not be an issue, but I'm curious as to the need for a spacer on a non EGR manifold.

"What about the thermactor ports in the exhaust manifolds?

I'm assuming if the A.I.R. pumps are removed, the ports are capped?

Or do you have headers?" - The stock exhaust manifolds do not have any ports in them, so I'm unsure what you mean by this. I would love to do some stainless headers, but I don't have much experience with exhausts, I don't know how to weld, so whatever exhaust solution is devised pretty much needs to be a plug and play situation.

"What are you looking to know about the Hot Fuel Handling system?" - Basically just trying to figure out what it was. I was confused by all the references to the fuel pump eccentric and the fuel pump itself, so I started to learn about how my truck got fuel to the engine. I read about it in the Haynes, and then a brief google of it brought me here. I was pretty much just looking to read about how it worked, so when it comes time to diagnose or modify it, I at least knew what I was looking at and how the pieces interact.

 

Have you found this page? Documentation/Fuel Systems/460 Fuel Systems and then the Hot Fuel Handling tab. And the Electrical tab. Bear in mind that the Electrical tab shows the 1985 EVTM pages and is not correct for 1986 trucks - as I recently learned. And I haven't checked to see if the '83 and '84 460's were wired like the '85s. Need to do that.

Sorry about the PO. Jim might know what stock jetting is for a 4160, I don't.

On the distributor, if you tell Scotty what components you have on your engine he can dial in a new dizzy and send it to you.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Have you found this page? Documentation/Fuel Systems/460 Fuel Systems and then the Hot Fuel Handling tab. And the Electrical tab. Bear in mind that the Electrical tab shows the 1985 EVTM pages and is not correct for 1986 trucks - as I recently learned. And I haven't checked to see if the '83 and '84 460's were wired like the '85s. Need to do that.

Sorry about the PO. Jim might know what stock jetting is for a 4160, I don't.

On the distributor, if you tell Scotty what components you have on your engine he can dial in a new dizzy and send it to you.

Or you can get a Crane advance and a spring kit, to follow the instructions on Scott's old Reincarnation pages.

But that won't get you a limit plate with a tight slot. Which you want in a non-EGR tow rig.

Used to be you could look up any Holley carb by list # in the technical pages of their website.

It would tell you exactly what jetting, slots, PV, cam position, etc.. for every carb they made (even the 4180's they produced for Ford)

But I haven't dug into their site recently.

The list# is on the forward side of the choke horn, on the drivers side.

If you don't know quite which carburetor you have.