Rembrant Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Basically to do a proper 4wd conversion I will have to cut the rear spring mounts off the frame and swap them over to the 4wd mounts. Not sure if that is something I will want to do to do a proper 4wd conversion. I can buy those brackets to do the conversion just not sure if I want to go removing riveted suspension brackets off to install other suspension brackets. I guess I could go with a heavier duty 2wd leaf spring in the rear to mimic the 4wd ones. It's easy as anything. People replace those spring hangers all the time. I've done them on my '84 (all four leaf spring hangers) and I'm removing them all on my 1980 over the next couple weeks. Don't let those rivets stop ya, I've removed dozens of them, and I have to drill out 19 more of them in the next couple weekends. ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 Basically to do a proper 4wd conversion I will have to cut the rear spring mounts off the frame and swap them over to the 4wd mounts. Not sure if that is something I will want to do to do a proper 4wd conversion. I can buy those brackets to do the conversion just not sure if I want to go removing riveted suspension brackets off to install other suspension brackets. I guess I could go with a heavier duty 2wd leaf spring in the rear to mimic the 4wd ones. It's easy as anything. People replace those spring hangers all the time. I've done them on my '84 (all four leaf spring hangers) and I'm removing them all on my 1980 over the next couple weeks. Don't let those rivets stop ya, I've removed dozens of them, and I have to drill out 19 more of them in the next couple weekends. ha. Oh I dont mind removing them, I removed them on a '82 5.0 coyote swap I did at work the guy wanted to lower the truck so we put lowering springs out back and drop beams up front. My thing is I just dont like the thought of having a bolt instead of a rivet holding the suspension components on. I know a proper sized bolt with the shoulder fitting the hole properly has no more risk of sheering than a rivet, its just a worry point for me none the less. Then there is the other problem of how do I decide on what spring to run in the back. Based off Detroit Spring who I would be having make my springs as they make them to OE specifications, they only list two for my truck a 1389lb spring with 126/257 rate and a 1854 spring with 152/312 rate. My truck does have 3/1 springs out back currently and Eaton lists the 3/1 springs as being 1250 lb springs with 236/226 rate. So my limited understanding of spring rates does that mean that the 1854lb springs with their 152/312 rate mean it will be a softer spring initially than what I currently have. The heavier 1854lb spring capacity 3/1 4wd springs would take just 154 lbs to compress the springs 1" vs my 1250lb spring capacity would take 236lbs to compress the springs 1" but it appears mine goes down after that to 226 lbs where as the 4x4 goes up to 312lbs. But the 4x4 spring has a capacity of 1,854lbs at specified height where as my current 3/1 spring only has a 1,250lbs at specified height. This is probably why my suspension was able to be worn out so quickly in the rear to the point where just me climbing in the back of the truck drops the rear down a good amount ie more than 1". I could go with the lighter 4x4 rated springs which is 1,389 lbs capacity at specified height with a 126/257 spring rate. That would be a bit closer to my OE 2wd springs but would be considerably softer. But then it poses the question what about the front. There are two springs that crosses over from 2wd to 4wd but then there is a HD spring with factory AC which my truck doesnt have but I do have dealer AC and I question would the addition of things such as auxiliary lights, my chrome push bar make up the difference in weight on the front suspension. But then again I am dumping the cast iron intake and heads for aluminum and dumping the cast iron manifolds for steel shorty headers. But then I am adding weight in the form of aftermarket efi. There is no specified weight by Eaton or spring rate for the coil springs, but it is something for me to consider as I do want to level the truck out, I dont want the truck to be high in the rear as 95% of the time I will be driving without a trailer and not only that but I will be running the Timbren Suspension Assist System on the rear of my truck which should help with supporting the truck when loaded down. Personally before my thoughts of doing the 4wd conversion I was leaning towards the 2749 leaf springs the 1,250lb springs with 3/1 leaves and a 236/226 spring rate and for the front I was looking at the 508 HD springs w/o factory AC with a 2" rise over stock to emulate a leveling kit without the use of a spring pad. I found out at work that having a spring that is longer provides a softer ride when raising a vehicle while a spacer block under the spring can actually make the vehicle ride rougher. But now with the idea of 4wd being introduced do I want to stick with the 508 HD springs as they are listed for both 4wd and 2wd. But then it raises the question the 4wd leaf springs are they going to raise the height of the truck over the 2wd springs. I know they are designed to support a given weight at a specified height but is the 1,854 lbs at the same specified heigth as the 1,250 lb 2wd spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 Basically to do a proper 4wd conversion I will have to cut the rear spring mounts off the frame and swap them over to the 4wd mounts. Not sure if that is something I will want to do to do a proper 4wd conversion. I can buy those brackets to do the conversion just not sure if I want to go removing riveted suspension brackets off to install other suspension brackets. I guess I could go with a heavier duty 2wd leaf spring in the rear to mimic the 4wd ones. It's easy as anything. People replace those spring hangers all the time. I've done them on my '84 (all four leaf spring hangers) and I'm removing them all on my 1980 over the next couple weeks. Don't let those rivets stop ya, I've removed dozens of them, and I have to drill out 19 more of them in the next couple weekends. ha. Oh I dont mind removing them, I removed them on a '82 5.0 coyote swap I did at work the guy wanted to lower the truck so we put lowering springs out back and drop beams up front. My thing is I just dont like the thought of having a bolt instead of a rivet holding the suspension components on. I know a proper sized bolt with the shoulder fitting the hole properly has no more risk of sheering than a rivet, its just a worry point for me none the less. Then there is the other problem of how do I decide on what spring to run in the back. Based off Detroit Spring who I would be having make my springs as they make them to OE specifications, they only list two for my truck a 1389lb spring with 126/257 rate and a 1854 spring with 152/312 rate. My truck does have 3/1 springs out back currently and Eaton lists the 3/1 springs as being 1250 lb springs with 236/226 rate. So my limited understanding of spring rates does that mean that the 1854lb springs with their 152/312 rate mean it will be a softer spring initially than what I currently have. The heavier 1854lb spring capacity 3/1 4wd springs would take just 154 lbs to compress the springs 1" vs my 1250lb spring capacity would take 236lbs to compress the springs 1" but it appears mine goes down after that to 226 lbs where as the 4x4 goes up to 312lbs. But the 4x4 spring has a capacity of 1,854lbs at specified height where as my current 3/1 spring only has a 1,250lbs at specified height. This is probably why my suspension was able to be worn out so quickly in the rear to the point where just me climbing in the back of the truck drops the rear down a good amount ie more than 1". I could go with the lighter 4x4 rated springs which is 1,389 lbs capacity at specified height with a 126/257 spring rate. That would be a bit closer to my OE 2wd springs but would be considerably softer. But then it poses the question what about the front. There are two springs that crosses over from 2wd to 4wd but then there is a HD spring with factory AC which my truck doesnt have but I do have dealer AC and I question would the addition of things such as auxiliary lights, my chrome push bar make up the difference in weight on the front suspension. But then again I am dumping the cast iron intake and heads for aluminum and dumping the cast iron manifolds for steel shorty headers. But then I am adding weight in the form of aftermarket efi. There is no specified weight by Eaton or spring rate for the coil springs, but it is something for me to consider as I do want to level the truck out, I dont want the truck to be high in the rear as 95% of the time I will be driving without a trailer and not only that but I will be running the Timbren Suspension Assist System on the rear of my truck which should help with supporting the truck when loaded down. Personally before my thoughts of doing the 4wd conversion I was leaning towards the 2749 leaf springs the 1,250lb springs with 3/1 leaves and a 236/226 spring rate and for the front I was looking at the 508 HD springs w/o factory AC with a 2" rise over stock to emulate a leveling kit without the use of a spring pad. I found out at work that having a spring that is longer provides a softer ride when raising a vehicle while a spacer block under the spring can actually make the vehicle ride rougher. But now with the idea of 4wd being introduced do I want to stick with the 508 HD springs as they are listed for both 4wd and 2wd. But then it raises the question the 4wd leaf springs are they going to raise the height of the truck over the 2wd springs. I know they are designed to support a given weight at a specified height but is the 1,854 lbs at the same specified heigth as the 1,250 lb 2wd spring. Think I might have found some I beams. I first found a E0TZ-3B402-C I beam, the passengerside one brand new for $149.95. The driverside with the Dana 44 center chunk wasnt in stock. I found the driverside Dana 44 axle at another place part number E9TZ-3B403-A for $279.00. I know this is the number that replaced the old number but I am kind of curious if there will be any kind of issue running a 1989 revised I beam while running the original 1980 design of I beam on the other side. I dont think ford would have done that as it replaced that number but one never knows. This basically puts me currently at $428.95 for the I beams alone without cost of shipping. The same store has the radius arms OEM Ford, E9TZ-3A360-D RH for $147 and E8TZ-3A292-A LH for $159. They also sell reproduction radius arms for $59 a piece. I would most likely go with the OEM pieces made by Ford which would put me at $734.95 for the twin traction I beams and the radius arms. If I went with the reproduction radius arms which I feel might be weaker could save me quite a bit of money by bringing the cost to just $546.95. Not too bad cause the transfer case I found for $800 with warranty. That would put me at $1,534.95 for the 4WD conversion up front. Still have to source the steering knuckles as well as the ring and pinion gear. I found some on ebay but I rather find a shop online that way I can buy most of my stuff from one place and only pay shipping once. The following are part numbers of what I am still finding a source for E1TZ-3010-A : Dana 44 IFS Housing Assembly E0TZ-2K004-D : Dust Shield RH E0TZ-2K005-D : Dust Shield LH E1TZ-1102-C : Hub & Rotor Assembly E0TZ-3130-A : Arm, Spindle RH E0TZ-3131-A : Arm, Spindle LH E0TZ-3105-H : Spindle Assembly (2 req) E3TZ-3222-J : Ring and Pinion Kit - Dana 44 IFS (3.00:1) (highest ratio listed for my truck) I am still compiling a list for the rear 4wd conversion currently. What I am doing is cross referencing 4wd and 2wd components to see what is and isnt different between the trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salans7 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Think I might have found some I beams. I first found a E0TZ-3B402-C I beam, the passengerside one brand new for $149.95. The driverside with the Dana 44 center chunk wasnt in stock. I found the driverside Dana 44 axle at another place part number E9TZ-3B403-A for $279.00. I know this is the number that replaced the old number but I am kind of curious if there will be any kind of issue running a 1989 revised I beam while running the original 1980 design of I beam on the other side. I dont think ford would have done that as it replaced that number but one never knows. This basically puts me currently at $428.95 for the I beams alone without cost of shipping. The same store has the radius arms OEM Ford, E9TZ-3A360-D RH for $147 and E8TZ-3A292-A LH for $159. They also sell reproduction radius arms for $59 a piece. I would most likely go with the OEM pieces made by Ford which would put me at $734.95 for the twin traction I beams and the radius arms. If I went with the reproduction radius arms which I feel might be weaker could save me quite a bit of money by bringing the cost to just $546.95. Not too bad cause the transfer case I found for $800 with warranty. That would put me at $1,534.95 for the 4WD conversion up front. Still have to source the steering knuckles as well as the ring and pinion gear. I found some on ebay but I rather find a shop online that way I can buy most of my stuff from one place and only pay shipping once. The following are part numbers of what I am still finding a source for E1TZ-3010-A : Dana 44 IFS Housing Assembly E0TZ-2K004-D : Dust Shield RH E0TZ-2K005-D : Dust Shield LH E1TZ-1102-C : Hub & Rotor Assembly E0TZ-3130-A : Arm, Spindle RH E0TZ-3131-A : Arm, Spindle LH E0TZ-3105-H : Spindle Assembly (2 req) E3TZ-3222-J : Ring and Pinion Kit - Dana 44 IFS (3.00:1) (highest ratio listed for my truck) I am still compiling a list for the rear 4wd conversion currently. What I am doing is cross referencing 4wd and 2wd components to see what is and isnt different between the trucks. The 4x4 1/2 ton trucks have 3" springs, while the 4x2 1/2 ton trucks have 2.5" springs. So the shackles, shackle hangers, and springs are different. The 4x4 rear lift blocks will work fine with the 2.5" springs however. The 4x4 trucks have the rear bump stop attached to a bracket that is riveted to the frame. The 1/2 ton 4x2 trucks have the bump stop bolted directly to the frame. The rear sway bar end links on a 4x4 truck mount to a bracket that is riveted to the frame. Broncos and 4x2 trucks have rear sway bar end links that bolt directly to a hole in the side of the frame rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Think I might have found some I beams. I first found a E0TZ-3B402-C I beam, the passengerside one brand new for $149.95. The driverside with the Dana 44 center chunk wasnt in stock. I found the driverside Dana 44 axle at another place part number E9TZ-3B403-A for $279.00. I know this is the number that replaced the old number but I am kind of curious if there will be any kind of issue running a 1989 revised I beam while running the original 1980 design of I beam on the other side. I dont think ford would have done that as it replaced that number but one never knows. This basically puts me currently at $428.95 for the I beams alone without cost of shipping. The same store has the radius arms OEM Ford, E9TZ-3A360-D RH for $147 and E8TZ-3A292-A LH for $159. They also sell reproduction radius arms for $59 a piece. I would most likely go with the OEM pieces made by Ford which would put me at $734.95 for the twin traction I beams and the radius arms. If I went with the reproduction radius arms which I feel might be weaker could save me quite a bit of money by bringing the cost to just $546.95. Not too bad cause the transfer case I found for $800 with warranty. That would put me at $1,534.95 for the 4WD conversion up front. Still have to source the steering knuckles as well as the ring and pinion gear. I found some on ebay but I rather find a shop online that way I can buy most of my stuff from one place and only pay shipping once. The following are part numbers of what I am still finding a source for E1TZ-3010-A : Dana 44 IFS Housing Assembly E0TZ-2K004-D : Dust Shield RH E0TZ-2K005-D : Dust Shield LH E1TZ-1102-C : Hub & Rotor Assembly E0TZ-3130-A : Arm, Spindle RH E0TZ-3131-A : Arm, Spindle LH E0TZ-3105-H : Spindle Assembly (2 req) E3TZ-3222-J : Ring and Pinion Kit - Dana 44 IFS (3.00:1) (highest ratio listed for my truck) I am still compiling a list for the rear 4wd conversion currently. What I am doing is cross referencing 4wd and 2wd components to see what is and isnt different between the trucks. You still need a 4x4 transmission and the coupler, transfer case linkage and stick, a transmission cover with a hole for the stick and the elusive 4x4 shift boot with trim collar. Then you need the front drive shaft. And the rear (or shorten it). A new, longer speedo cable, and the correct drive gear for your R&P. The list goes on... but you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 The 4x4 1/2 ton trucks have 3" springs, while the 4x2 1/2 ton trucks have 2.5" springs. So the shackles, shackle hangers, and springs are different. The 4x4 rear lift blocks will work fine with the 2.5" springs however. The 4x4 trucks have the rear bump stop attached to a bracket that is riveted to the frame. The 1/2 ton 4x2 trucks have the bump stop bolted directly to the frame. The rear sway bar end links on a 4x4 truck mount to a bracket that is riveted to the frame. Broncos and 4x2 trucks have rear sway bar end links that bolt directly to a hole in the side of the frame rail. Yep I looked at that on the diragrams, no part number listed for the F150`s and it states if the application isnt listed to fashion it from plate steel. I had my eyes set on the Timbren suspension assist system that replaces the axle bumper but just checked to see if its the same part number for 4wd as 2wd, well there isnt one for the 4wd, just states "Not used on this vehicle" so I would have to fabricate my own bracket which wouldnt be too hard or source one from another vehicle. Thankfully I dont have swaybars front or rear on my truck so I dont have to worry about that. Not sure I would want to add them if I go 4wd as it would hinder off road capability. I also looked at the dual front shock setup which was on the 4wd but it appears it was an upgrade option so I can keep my single front shocks with 4wd. The rear springs I can get things such as the rear leaf spring brackets and hangers for 4wd so thats not a big issue. For me the biggest issue that has me starting to lean slightly away from this conversion is finding the ring and pinion set. Found out late last night that there was never a 3.08:1 axle ratio for the 9" rear end it was only offered in the 8.8" rear end so I would have to go with a 3.00:1 axle ratio which I did find was an offering for the Dana 44 IFS, but I cant find any how ever for sale. OE part number of E3TZ-3222-J has no hits online for any for sale, doing a search for Dana 44 IFS 3.00:1 ring and pinion brings up no results either. Seems everything aftermarket is 3.50:1 and lower there is a listing for a 3.08 but not on Yukons website and its listed as out of stock on the offroad site I found it on. Not going to get involved with this big of a conversion if I cant locate the vital components and so far I have found the majority of the vital components just not the most vital the ring and pinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 You still need a 4x4 transmission and the coupler, transfer case linkage and stick, a transmission cover with a hole for the stick and the elusive 4x4 shift boot with trim collar. Then you need the front drive shaft. And the rear (or shorten it). A new, longer speedo cable, and the correct drive gear for your R&P. The list goes on... but you get the idea. Yep the 4x4 transmission wouldnt be too hard to locate, found many C6 4wd transmissions rebuilt, found the transfer case as well rebuilt for $800 with a 7/8 year warranty. Drive shafts are easily found online as well on 4wd websites I came across. I didnt try to find the shift boot and the trim collar nor did I look for the so called transmission cover as mine is all a one piece floor so I would have to cut a hole. The speedometer cable wouldnt be a issue either as I can look that stuff up over time and locate the correct ones. The biggest issue I am faced with is the ring and pinion. My goal was to run a 3.25:1 axle ratio but I can run a 3.00:1 to be slightly higher geared than my OE 2.75:1 ring and pinion when taking my 31x10.50-15 tires into account. Problem is though I havent found any Dana 44 IFS ring and pinion in 3.25:1, I found one listing of a Yukon brand for 3.08:1 but it is out of stock and its not listed on Yukon`s website. Never found a 3.00:1 which is the closest option I found in the parts and illustration guide E3TZ-3222-J for a 3.00:1 dana 44 IFS ring and pinion. Next ratio would be a 3.50:1 which is too much for a street build I am doing. 3.25:1 is the absolute lowest I would want to go and 3.00:1 the absolute highest with my tires. Rear axle I cant find a 3.08:1 which would be ideal at putting me right back to 2.75:1 with my taller tires. I might be able to locate a Dana 44 IFS 3.08:1 in stock some where but I cant find a single listing for a 9" in 3.08:1, only 3.08:1 I could find in my parts and illustration guide is for the 8.8" rear end and I am not going to down grade from a 9" rear axle to a 8.8" rear axle. This is why I am doing this piecing together research as it will determine if this is something I will do or not. I want to do it but the ring and pinion ratio is making me start to lean away from doing it. Only way I could run a 3.50:1 is if I went with a AOD so I can drive on the highway still and I dont like the thought of a AOD being used for the simple fact that you have to put more money in them to get them on par strength wise as a C6. Plus to not have my final drive ratio in OD not too low I would have to go with a 4.11:1 axle ratio so with my taller tires and OD I would be right around 2.75:1 ratio and I can get a 4.11:1 for the dana 44 IFS, but I just dont know if I want to make all these changes as it is quickly becoming one change after another. I could probably run a 3.08:1 front and 3.00:1 rear but thats a 2.5% difference which would be ok in a low traction off road situation, but I could never use 4wd on paved surfaces for pulling as the 2.5% difference is too much. 1% is the most youd want I have been reading for paved surface use and I just cant justify going to all this trouble to have 4wd and have it setup for off road use only. Not worth the cost and time in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts