HEI distributor on 351W

[Andre]

I read a lot about the HEI on the straight 6, but not that much on the V8. I was thinking about it, mainly because I like a clean engine bay. Does the HEI system gives any other advantages over the one wire and no need for ignition coil? Its known for clearance issue's in regards to the intake manifold, but I think that will clear with the Edelbrock manifold I have. Also my intake filter has a 1 inch off center hole, so that should all clear the big HEI distributor cap.

At the moment I have the MSD ready to run distributor, and all is performing well. Did find out that after start the voltage drops to around 8 volts, due to the resistance wire at the dash to the plus of the ignition coil, the MSD distributor can cope with that, I dont think the HEI will, and requires a straight 12 volt supply.

Any information would be great, and if possible the do or dont's of the HEI system on the Ford V8.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The 'coil in cap' GM style distributors need a hefty 10-12Ga. wire directly from the battery cable lug to supply enough power.

You use the coil power wire to trigger a relay, and supply the HEI.

Not surprisingly Gary has a write-up under "upgrades"

[Gary Lewis]

The 'coil in cap' GM style distributors need a hefty 10-12Ga. wire directly from the battery cable lug to supply enough power.

You use the coil power wire to trigger a relay, and supply the HEI.

Not surprisingly Gary has a write-up under "upgrades"

Jim - There may be one under "upgrades", but the one I refer people to is on the page at Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and then the Ignition Simplification and One Wire tabs. There are some advantages and disadvantages there also.

Andre - I saw what you said about the notch in the air cleaner. But I'm not sure that an HEI will fit under there.

[Andre]

Jim - There may be one under "upgrades", but the one I refer people to is on the page at Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and then the Ignition Simplification and One Wire tabs. There are some advantages and disadvantages there also.

Andre - I saw what you said about the notch in the air cleaner. But I'm not sure that an HEI will fit under there.

Thanks guys, I think I wont be change it until its broken, maybe order one for the Ranchero, just to make sure it fits the Bronco too. Ranchero has a lot of electrics to be done, as its not there anymore.

[Rusty_S85]

Id make sure on the HEI if you go that route on a 351W. We had a 351W stroker in a 92 F150 at work that we put that distributor in and it had a lot of slop when we were trying to find out why it wiped out the distributor gear. Could have been just his block but could have been the HEI distributor as well.

Personally I wouldnt go to the trouble of doing that upgrade as I dont believe it is an upgrade as GM ignition modules fail due to heat over time and Ive personally never had a DSII Ignition module fail as it is mounted away from the engine on the fender.

But the HEI does have its benefits though such as having a tach clip you can use or leave empty and all you need is just a battery hot for the distributor. But aside from that I dont know if for me the benefits of the HEI style distributor would out weigh the negatives in my book.

If I make any changes to mine I would consider going with one of the holley hyperspark distributors to allow my Sniper Stealth to control ignition timing. But even then they have RFI problems and apparently you can use a factory style distributor you just have to lock the advance but I never really looked into that as I am not too big on letting the EFI control my timing.

[Nothing Special]

Id make sure on the HEI if you go that route on a 351W. We had a 351W stroker in a 92 F150 at work that we put that distributor in and it had a lot of slop when we were trying to find out why it wiped out the distributor gear. Could have been just his block but could have been the HEI distributor as well.

Personally I wouldnt go to the trouble of doing that upgrade as I dont believe it is an upgrade as GM ignition modules fail due to heat over time and Ive personally never had a DSII Ignition module fail as it is mounted away from the engine on the fender.

But the HEI does have its benefits though such as having a tach clip you can use or leave empty and all you need is just a battery hot for the distributor. But aside from that I dont know if for me the benefits of the HEI style distributor would out weigh the negatives in my book.

If I make any changes to mine I would consider going with one of the holley hyperspark distributors to allow my Sniper Stealth to control ignition timing. But even then they have RFI problems and apparently you can use a factory style distributor you just have to lock the advance but I never really looked into that as I am not too big on letting the EFI control my timing.

I have a GM HEI distributor from Davis Unified Ignition (DUI, cute huh?) in the 302 in my '71 Bronco. No one told me that I can't run it directly off the wire from the ignition switch. But apparently no one told it either as it's been working well that way for over 10 years (sometime maybe I'll put a relay on it...).

I went with an HEI to replace the original '71 breaker point system. No regrets on my choice, but I'm not saying it's the right choice for everyone.

I have heard that there are several different vendors offering HEI distributors of varying quality at varying price. DUI is DEFINITELY not the cheapest, but I guess they're good.

The only issue at all that I've had wasn't actually with the distributor, but with the plug wires I ordered from DUI at the same time. They came for the wrong firing order so they were the wrong lengths. This far after the fact I don't recall how the error was made, but I returned them and they sent me the right ones, so no big deal fixing it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I have a GM HEI distributor from Davis Unified Ignition (DUI, cute huh?) in the 302 in my '71 Bronco. No one told me that I can't run it directly off the wire from the ignition switch. But apparently no one told it either as it's been working well that way for over 10 years (sometime maybe I'll put a relay on it...).

I went with an HEI to replace the original '71 breaker point system. No regrets on my choice, but I'm not saying it's the right choice for everyone.

I have heard that there are several different vendors offering HEI distributors of varying quality at varying price. DUI is DEFINITELY not the cheapest, but I guess they're good.

The only issue at all that I've had wasn't actually with the distributor, but with the plug wires I ordered from DUI at the same time. They came for the wrong firing order so they were the wrong lengths. This far after the fact I don't recall how the error was made, but I returned them and they sent me the right ones, so no big deal fixing it.

Bob, I know I'm NOT about to pay $400 for any distributor.

But if you look at the instructions on Performance Distributors DUI page you'll see that while they say to run a 12Ga. wire directly from the ignition switch on GM vehicles they suggest a relay for Ford.

The other "HEI" brands seem to suggest using a relay on installs too.

I don't know if/how a '70's Ford harness differs from these trucks.

If it works for you, it's all good!

[85lebaront2]

Id make sure on the HEI if you go that route on a 351W. We had a 351W stroker in a 92 F150 at work that we put that distributor in and it had a lot of slop when we were trying to find out why it wiped out the distributor gear. Could have been just his block but could have been the HEI distributor as well.

Personally I wouldnt go to the trouble of doing that upgrade as I dont believe it is an upgrade as GM ignition modules fail due to heat over time and Ive personally never had a DSII Ignition module fail as it is mounted away from the engine on the fender.

But the HEI does have its benefits though such as having a tach clip you can use or leave empty and all you need is just a battery hot for the distributor. But aside from that I dont know if for me the benefits of the HEI style distributor would out weigh the negatives in my book.

If I make any changes to mine I would consider going with one of the holley hyperspark distributors to allow my Sniper Stealth to control ignition timing. But even then they have RFI problems and apparently you can use a factory style distributor you just have to lock the advance but I never really looked into that as I am not too big on letting the EFI control my timing.

Rusty, FWIW, British cars, MG, Jaguar etc. used a Lucas Opus (Oscillating Pickup system) that the pickup was a small transformer with an incomplete frame, one of the sides was omitted. The transformer frame was completed when the ferrite rod in a plastic spool on the distributor shaft aligned with the pickup. It was, in the best tradition of Joe Lucas questionable at best. In 1980 while I was working at a Dodge, Jaguar, MG and Mercedes-Benz dealer, a replacement was released by Lucas called a "constant energy ignition" it used what looked like an old Chrysler electronic ignition pickup and reluctor 4 or 5 teeth as needed. The aluminum box with the Lucas label had two connectors 90° apart one set was connected to the pickup coil, the other went to the ignition coil + and -. Instructions were to remove the coil and remount it in place with the ballast resistor removed and the new ignition box under it, replace the existing distributor with the Opus module with a new distributor containing the pickup. Pickup air gap was set like a Chrysler at .006" with a non-magnetic feeler gauge.

I opened one of the boxes, inside it was a GM 4 pin HEI module. Apparently it is the GM coil that is the power hog, not the module. I would imagine if you used a DS-II distributor and an E-core coil that a properly mounted to a heat sink 4 pin HEI module would work very happily and possibly a DS-II coil might also, but the module would need a 12V feed rather than the resistor feed. The DS-II coil might work without the resistance wire. This would allow a normal DS-II distributor and wires to be used and the module could be put in a failed DS-II case.

[Nothing Special]

Bob, I know I'm NOT about to pay $400 for any distributor.

Like I said, DEFINITELY not the cheapest! And honestly, I don't recall my thought process (or lack thereof) that led to the purchase way back when. But the nice thing is that now I've basically forgotten the price I paid and only remember that it works well.

But if you look at the instructions on Performance Distributors DUI page you'll see that while they say to run a 12Ga. wire directly from the ignition switch on GM vehicles they suggest a relay for Ford....

I don't know if they didn't say that back when I bought mine, or if I just missed it. But...

If it works for you, it's all good!

... that's what I'm going with!

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Rusty, FWIW, British cars, MG, Jaguar etc. used a Lucas Opus (Oscillating Pickup system) that the pickup was a small transformer with an incomplete frame, one of the sides was omitted. The transformer frame was completed when the ferrite rod in a plastic spool on the distributor shaft aligned with the pickup. It was, in the best tradition of Joe Lucas questionable at best. In 1980 while I was working at a Dodge, Jaguar, MG and Mercedes-Benz dealer, a replacement was released by Lucas called a "constant energy ignition" it used what looked like an old Chrysler electronic ignition pickup and reluctor 4 or 5 teeth as needed. The aluminum box with the Lucas label had two connectors 90° apart one set was connected to the pickup coil, the other went to the ignition coil + and -. Instructions were to remove the coil and remount it in place with the ballast resistor removed and the new ignition box under it, replace the existing distributor with the Opus module with a new distributor containing the pickup. Pickup air gap was set like a Chrysler at .006" with a non-magnetic feeler gauge.

I opened one of the boxes, inside it was a GM 4 pin HEI module. Apparently it is the GM coil that is the power hog, not the module. I would imagine if you used a DS-II distributor and an E-core coil that a properly mounted to a heat sink 4 pin HEI module would work very happily and possibly a DS-II coil might also, but the module would need a 12V feed rather than the resistor feed. The DS-II coil might work without the resistance wire. This would allow a normal DS-II distributor and wires to be used and the module could be put in a failed DS-II case.

Bill, why not use the 5-pin module from the Toranado and get spark retard on cranking as well? (If wired to 'I')

I know some guys who used forced induction or juice use these modules to good effect.