1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

[Gary Lewis]

This weekend Espy got a new distributor. A MSD pro billet. It was a birthday present from the wife 🤣

Today I took Espy to Mike’s auto and his guy gave Espy a tune up. He said he was happy how I had the carb set up but the 14degrees BTDC was not enough and he ended up dialing to 20 initial and 38 total.

The engine is running great!

He also commented on the awful transmission and said to go to the junk yard and just grab an AOD, slap a new toque converter on it and call it good!

So, I’ll leave that here to sink in 😂

Glad it is working so well, but I'd have thought that 20 degrees initial would cause it to kick back on starting.

As for the transmission, I've not heard that AODs like the torque a strong 351's torque.

[Gsmblue]

Glad it is working so well, but I'd have thought that 20 degrees initial would cause it to kick back on starting.

As for the transmission, I've not heard that AODs like the torque a strong 351's torque.

I was surprised too, they asked me what cam was in there as they were surprised it took so much initial..

No idea what the cam is, despite asking the engine builder 20 times I never got the info.

As for the AOD, well, what I have just is not working. Need to think it through over the winter.

[Gary Lewis]

I was surprised too, they asked me what cam was in there as they were surprised it took so much initial..

No idea what the cam is, despite asking the engine builder 20 times I never got the info.

As for the AOD, well, what I have just is not working. Need to think it through over the winter.

What are the problems with the AOD you have?

[Gsmblue]

What are the problems with the AOD you have?

Okay let's recap this disaster of a transmission and maybe someone will have some comments/advice:

Background:

1. When the transmission shop installed the AOD transmission they repurposed the C6 shift linkage as the TV linkage with a botch job of washers as shims and the shift performance was similar or worse than it is today. It went back 4 or so times and I was told "this is just how this transmission will shift".

2. Although it is an AOD, it has a C6 torque converter. Allegedly this is a thing to increase the power handling of the AOD...I think this is really what makes it feel "spiny". The mechanic yesterday described it as "free-wheeling". Particularly when you are off the gas. It is difficult for me to explain, but when driving, if you let off the gas the revs drop and you just kinda coast.

3. I installed the Lokar TV cable and I have it set up as per their instructions and this is also how Monster transmissions advises on their Youtube video. Lokar supply a spacer that is the bulk adjustment and you can fine tune from there. The more tension on the cable the more pressure and the later and harder the shifts. The less tension on the cable the softer and earlier it shifts - but gets really slippy really quick and I have smelt some nasty burning smells when set too loose/low pressure.

4. I did put a pressure gauge on the port on the AOD and as documented somewhere back in this thread I was struggling to get the pressure set correctly, if I recall it would never get low enough, I believe the target in park is 35-40psi and I was seeing 45psi. I would have to go back and look it up.

The issues:

4. It shifts really late 3200+rpm. Never under 3000rpm and in normal driving more like 4000rpm.

5. Following on from above - no matter how I set the TV cable it shifts so late into OD and will shift out with minimal throttle input. rarely will it shift into OD under 3500rpm.

6. Sometimes when starting up, the transmission will not engage and you have to move the shift lever up and down to wake it up. 1 in 100 times.

Some notes:

The throttle body was changed out under warranty at least once. it went back 4 times in 12 months and they never got it running even half decent, only degrees of bad.

For what it is worth the mechanic yesterday suggested it feels/sounds like a pressure loss/issue in the transmission.

For comparison my ’85 F150 with a 302 has an AOD and it is flawless.

[Gary Lewis]

Okay let's recap this disaster of a transmission and maybe someone will have some comments/advice:

Background:

1. When the transmission shop installed the AOD transmission they repurposed the C6 shift linkage as the TV linkage with a botch job of washers as shims and the shift performance was similar or worse than it is today. It went back 4 or so times and I was told "this is just how this transmission will shift".

2. Although it is an AOD, it has a C6 torque converter. Allegedly this is a thing to increase the power handling of the AOD...I think this is really what makes it feel "spiny". The mechanic yesterday described it as "free-wheeling". Particularly when you are off the gas. It is difficult for me to explain, but when driving, if you let off the gas the revs drop and you just kinda coast.

3. I installed the Lokar TV cable and I have it set up as per their instructions and this is also how Monster transmissions advises on their Youtube video. Lokar supply a spacer that is the bulk adjustment and you can fine tune from there. The more tension on the cable the more pressure and the later and harder the shifts. The less tension on the cable the softer and earlier it shifts - but gets really slippy really quick and I have smelt some nasty burning smells when set too loose/low pressure.

4. I did put a pressure gauge on the port on the AOD and as documented somewhere back in this thread I was struggling to get the pressure set correctly, if I recall it would never get low enough, I believe the target in park is 35-40psi and I was seeing 45psi. I would have to go back and look it up.

The issues:

4. It shifts really late 3200+rpm. Never under 3000rpm and in normal driving more like 4000rpm.

5. Following on from above - no matter how I set the TV cable it shifts so late into OD and will shift out with minimal throttle input. rarely will it shift into OD under 3500rpm.

6. Sometimes when starting up, the transmission will not engage and you have to move the shift lever up and down to wake it up. 1 in 100 times.

Some notes:

The throttle body was changed out under warranty at least once. it went back 4 times in 12 months and they never got it running even half decent, only degrees of bad.

For what it is worth the mechanic yesterday suggested it feels/sounds like a pressure loss/issue in the transmission.

For comparison my ’85 F150 with a 302 has an AOD and it is flawless.

That's a very thorough explanation. Thanks.

But I've not heard of placing a C6 torque converter in an AOD. That seems counterintuitive since, from what little I know, the torque converter of the AOD is where the shift to overdrive happens.

So, you have two AOD's and one works perfectly and the other doesn't. My first thought was to swap them to prove it is the problem, but then that's a lot of work and it is obvious it is the problem.

I really don't know what to suggest. I think I might do partially as was suggested - go to a salvage and get an AOD and its matching torque converter. And from what I've read you want to find one from a V8 truck as they are supposed to be the strongest.

[Gsmblue]

That's a very thorough explanation. Thanks.

But I've not heard of placing a C6 torque converter in an AOD. That seems counterintuitive since, from what little I know, the torque converter of the AOD is where the shift to overdrive happens.

So, you have two AOD's and one works perfectly and the other doesn't. My first thought was to swap them to prove it is the problem, but then that's a lot of work and it is obvious it is the problem.

I really don't know what to suggest. I think I might do partially as was suggested - go to a salvage and get an AOD and its matching torque converter. And from what I've read you want to find one from a V8 truck as they are supposed to be the strongest.

Yes, the C6 torque converter is definitely not helping the situation.

I don't want to take the transmission off the F150, that is my daily driver :)

I have thought about buying a valve body off eBay and switching that in, but it won't fix the torque converter issue.

The scrap yard route is probably the way I will go, maybe go so far as to buy a refurbished unit.

One thing is for sure, I am not keeping this one or having it rebuilt.

Anyways a problem to be addressed in the spring.

[Gsmblue]

Yes, the C6 torque converter is definitely not helping the situation.

I don't want to take the transmission off the F150, that is my daily driver :)

I have thought about buying a valve body off eBay and switching that in, but it won't fix the torque converter issue.

The scrap yard route is probably the way I will go, maybe go so far as to buy a refurbished unit.

One thing is for sure, I am not keeping this one or having it rebuilt.

Anyways a problem to be addressed in the spring.

Nothing strikes more fear into an owner of a project vehicle than driving down the parkway, cruising nicely, then looking at the instrument cluster as seeing your oil pressure idiot gauge just tanking!

Well, long story short, as they say..

After checking the dipstick and there was oil, and the oil filter was still on and intact and there was signs of oil in the valve cover I did a bit of fudging with the sender wire, you know, grounding it and seeing the gauge peg to high, then crimping it and putting back on the sender and seeing pressure again I turned around and drove home.

On the way home the pressure dived again, by this point I figured the sender was bad.

I switched vehicles, drove to the part store for oil, filter and a sender unit. Got back home and did the oil change and sender swap.

Good news, I have oil pressure again!

Only issue is the sender is not a motorcraft part as there were none in stock in town, so I do need to order a an OEM one.

Oil filter is motorcraft, oil is Mobil 1.

During all of this, I also realized why my stereo keeps cutting out. I had a wild idea the passenger side sill plate where I ran the cables looked off, I pulled it up and sure enough the screw to the front had pierced the phono cable. I hadn’t taken care to tuck it aside. New cable set ordered.

So the winter has passed, Espy has let me know she needs attention! Now to plow on through some more body work stuff and let’s see if I can get to that rear axle and tailgate this summer.

[Gary Lewis]

Nothing strikes more fear into an owner of a project vehicle than driving down the parkway, cruising nicely, then looking at the instrument cluster as seeing your oil pressure idiot gauge just tanking!

Well, long story short, as they say..

After checking the dipstick and there was oil, and the oil filter was still on and intact and there was signs of oil in the valve cover I did a bit of fudging with the sender wire, you know, grounding it and seeing the gauge peg to high, then crimping it and putting back on the sender and seeing pressure again I turned around and drove home.

On the way home the pressure dived again, by this point I figured the sender was bad.

I switched vehicles, drove to the part store for oil, filter and a sender unit. Got back home and did the oil change and sender swap.

Good news, I have oil pressure again!

Only issue is the sender is not a motorcraft part as there were none in stock in town, so I do need to order a an OEM one.

Oil filter is motorcraft, oil is Mobil 1.

During all of this, I also realized why my stereo keeps cutting out. I had a wild idea the passenger side sill plate where I ran the cables looked off, I pulled it up and sure enough the screw to the front had pierced the phono cable. I hadn’t taken care to tuck it aside. New cable set ordered.

So the winter has passed, Espy has let me know she needs attention! Now to plow on through some more body work stuff and let’s see if I can get to that rear axle and tailgate this summer.

Yikes! Sorry I missed this! But it looks like there's a happy ending. Espy got the attention she deserved and you fixed several problems.