T2K-CAR

[85lebaront2]

Price? I dunno. Not much 'cause shipping will be a bunch - it is heavy.

Can you bolt a spreadbore adapter to my carb/plenum adapter? Do you need a dizzy to start it up with? If so, a DS-II module?

Probably, but the 4300D throttle pattern doesn't match a spreadbore, it is all by itself. Yes I can use the DS-II stuff, I'll have to figure out how to wire it since the 1996 harness has no provision for a ballast resistor or DS-II box. Fortunately I have lots of relays and sockets to make a temporary DS-II power system and can probably use a Chrysler resistor as they were external ceramic block ones for years.

 

[85lebaront2]

Probably, but the 4300D throttle pattern doesn't match a spreadbore, it is all by itself. Yes I can use the DS-II stuff, I'll have to figure out how to wire it since the 1996 harness has no provision for a ballast resistor or DS-II box. Fortunately I have lots of relays and sockets to make a temporary DS-II power system and can probably use a Chrysler resistor as they were external ceramic block ones for years.

Back to the originally scheduled discussion. Here are a couple of pictures of what I am working on with this. The original mount system for this end (right side of car) is a 5mm thick stamped piece that sits against the "front" face of the block. It has one fairly long stud top front, and a short stud top rear. On the front side there is a "dogbone" cast aluminum spacer that fills the space out to the end of the large aluminum casting that the AC compressor mounts to and the alternator pivots on.

On the back side the power steering pump bracket goes over the mount and an M10X1.5 nut with a washer secures the upper, lower is secured with an M10X1.5 bolt with washer.

On the front, upper stud after passing through the engine support stamping, dogbone and casting has another stamped brace for the mount bracket that was only used on the turbocharged 2.2L and all 2.5L due to the higher torque then a M10X1.5 nut with washer, bottom has a long M10X1.5 bolt that on some applications went into the water jacket, later models it is a blind hole. This is the back side, mount is on left, power steering pump bracket is black bracket on bottom side right end.

The timing belt on these runs between the dogbone and compressor/alternator mount necessitating a fair amount of disassembly to replace it.

The vehicle I removed the parts from was a PT Cruiser with a 2.4L DOHC NA engine. These have a very interesting mounting system on the right side. There is a large cast iron bracket attached to the end of the cast iron cylinder block with 3 long M10X1.5 bolts, at the bottom of this is an M10X1.5 tapped hole, when the engine is installed a bolt is installed through the actual mount that sits in a frame rail recess. The top of this casting has a smaller cast bracket that the upper torque mount is attached to.

In behind this casting is the automatic timing belt tensioner on a cast aluminum bracket. The front upper bolt for the engine support passes through it and the lower front bolt passes through the water pump body, rear bolt goes into the block with an alignment sleeve. By using the lower rear hole and upper front holes, the timing belt tensioner bracket went on with a little additional clearancing of the holes. This gave me a solid reference location for the engine support.

In order to be sure the angle in relation to the engine was correct, I installed the 1989 mount to the block, zeroed my nice angle gauge by setting it on the garage floor (verified 0° slant) then placed it on the top of the mount and rotated the engine block to be on 0° at the mount. I then assembled the PT Cruiser support bracket to it's location using only the front upper bolt, prior to doing this I had cleaned the block face and sprayed some bright "chrome" paint where the front lower bolt would sit. With the support bracket aligned at 0° I now had the correct angle for the bracket. I took one of the long bolts, put it through the lower front hole and hit it a few good raps with a brass hammer, giving me a center location/ Center punched it, drilled and tapped to M10X1.5.

From the top:

[Gary Lewis]

Back to the originally scheduled discussion. Here are a couple of pictures of what I am working on with this. The original mount system for this end (right side of car) is a 5mm thick stamped piece that sits against the "front" face of the block. It has one fairly long stud top front, and a short stud top rear. On the front side there is a "dogbone" cast aluminum spacer that fills the space out to the end of the large aluminum casting that the AC compressor mounts to and the alternator pivots on.

On the back side the power steering pump bracket goes over the mount and an M10X1.5 nut with a washer secures the upper, lower is secured with an M10X1.5 bolt with washer.

On the front, upper stud after passing through the engine support stamping, dogbone and casting has another stamped brace for the mount bracket that was only used on the turbocharged 2.2L and all 2.5L due to the higher torque then a M10X1.5 nut with washer, bottom has a long M10X1.5 bolt that on some applications went into the water jacket, later models it is a blind hole. This is the back side, mount is on left, power steering pump bracket is black bracket on bottom side right end.

The timing belt on these runs between the dogbone and compressor/alternator mount necessitating a fair amount of disassembly to replace it.

The vehicle I removed the parts from was a PT Cruiser with a 2.4L DOHC NA engine. These have a very interesting mounting system on the right side. There is a large cast iron bracket attached to the end of the cast iron cylinder block with 3 long M10X1.5 bolts, at the bottom of this is an M10X1.5 tapped hole, when the engine is installed a bolt is installed through the actual mount that sits in a frame rail recess. The top of this casting has a smaller cast bracket that the upper torque mount is attached to.

In behind this casting is the automatic timing belt tensioner on a cast aluminum bracket. The front upper bolt for the engine support passes through it and the lower front bolt passes through the water pump body, rear bolt goes into the block with an alignment sleeve. By using the lower rear hole and upper front holes, the timing belt tensioner bracket went on with a little additional clearancing of the holes. This gave me a solid reference location for the engine support.

In order to be sure the angle in relation to the engine was correct, I installed the 1989 mount to the block, zeroed my nice angle gauge by setting it on the garage floor (verified 0° slant) then placed it on the top of the mount and rotated the engine block to be on 0° at the mount. I then assembled the PT Cruiser support bracket to it's location using only the front upper bolt, prior to doing this I had cleaned the block face and sprayed some bright "chrome" paint where the front lower bolt would sit. With the support bracket aligned at 0° I now had the correct angle for the bracket. I took one of the long bolts, put it through the lower front hole and hit it a few good raps with a brass hammer, giving me a center location/ Center punched it, drilled and tapped to M10X1.5.

From the top:

I think I understand most of what you said.

But what I'm pretty sure I understand is that you located the bolt hole and then drilled and tapped it for the bracket's bolt. And the process was ingenious!

[85lebaront2]

I think I understand most of what you said.

But what I'm pretty sure I understand is that you located the bolt hole and then drilled and tapped it for the bracket's bolt. And the process was ingenious!

I was trying to describe the process and make the pictures work. Thanks! One thing I didn't mention, the block face to the mount centerline at the frame is 7" with the location of the through bolt if the first picture being 3 1/2" out from the block face. The center of the cast iron 2.4L bracket sits at 3 1/2" from the block face and the top is close enough to be workable into the original cushion.

[85lebaront2]

I was trying to describe the process and make the pictures work. Thanks! One thing I didn't mention, the block face to the mount centerline at the frame is 7" with the location of the through bolt if the first picture being 3 1/2" out from the block face. The center of the cast iron 2.4L bracket sits at 3 1/2" from the block face and the top is close enough to be workable into the original cushion.

Here are some further pictures to help explain the process:

First, here is the existing mount system (bracket has been modified as an early attempt at fitting). This wasn't going to work unless I only used an alternator, water pump and maybe a power steering pump. It also completely blocked the timing belt routing used on the 2.4L.

Here is the "front" of the block with most of the factory 2.4L timing system mounted. The belt that is partially routed is the one that came with the original DOHC head and the rest of the routing is drawn in black. In the late 80s - early 90s, Chrysler had two DOHC versions of the 2.2L, one was a Lotus designed head, the other I believe was a Shelby design. One of them, I believe it was the Shelby design was sold as a Turbo III. it had very little wrap on the two cam gears, a 30 tooth intermediate shaft gear that only drove the oil pump. Due to extremely high tension on the belt and the higher intermediate shaft speed there were loads of problems. The belt routing shown is much better, although I still have to run the oil pump with the intermediate shaft (it will only be 5% faster):

 

[85lebaront2]

Here are some further pictures to help explain the process:

First, here is the existing mount system (bracket has been modified as an early attempt at fitting). This wasn't going to work unless I only used an alternator, water pump and maybe a power steering pump. It also completely blocked the timing belt routing used on the 2.4L.

Here is the "front" of the block with most of the factory 2.4L timing system mounted. The belt that is partially routed is the one that came with the original DOHC head and the rest of the routing is drawn in black. In the late 80s - early 90s, Chrysler had two DOHC versions of the 2.2L, one was a Lotus designed head, the other I believe was a Shelby design. One of them, I believe it was the Shelby design was sold as a Turbo III. it had very little wrap on the two cam gears, a 30 tooth intermediate shaft gear that only drove the oil pump. Due to extremely high tension on the belt and the higher intermediate shaft speed there were loads of problems. The belt routing shown is much better, although I still have to run the oil pump with the intermediate shaft (it will only be 5% faster):

Gary, it looks like you may be off the hook. Here is what I did the last two days. I took a leftover piece of a cast iron wheel hub I modified so I could use bolt on wheels on my 1991 Ford YT16H tractor. It was just a tiny bit larger OD than the 2.4L crank gear and the hole was a snug fit on the 2.5L crank snout.

I started by chucking it in the lathe by the inboard end so I could true up the hacksaw cut face.

Once that was square, I turned it around, took a quick depth measurement and cut it there using the lathe and hacksaw to get a nice square cut (I learned that trick at the NNS lab). Once cut I proceeded to face that side off until it was smooth all the way across but still thick enough to put the crank gear far enough out. I than cut the gear facing portion down and chamfered it to fit in the back side of the 2.4L crank gear. The 2.4L crank gear has three holes tapped M6X1.0 part way so a special puller can remove it. I lined up the key ways and center punched the piece I had made. Drilled holes for 3 M6X1.0 bolts to check position and tapped the through holes in the gear all the way. Stuck some bolts in it to do a position check for depth, permanent bolts will be socket head and countersunk for clearance on the seal housing.

It appears to be near perfect as far as alignment with the tensioner. I will see what I need for the front of it to attach the 2.5L crank pulley on to. I bought an extra crank gear in case I mess this one up.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, it looks like you may be off the hook. Here is what I did the last two days. I took a leftover piece of a cast iron wheel hub I modified so I could use bolt on wheels on my 1991 Ford YT16H tractor. It was just a tiny bit larger OD than the 2.4L crank gear and the hole was a snug fit on the 2.5L crank snout.

I started by chucking it in the lathe by the inboard end so I could true up the hacksaw cut face.

Once that was square, I turned it around, took a quick depth measurement and cut it there using the lathe and hacksaw to get a nice square cut (I learned that trick at the NNS lab). Once cut I proceeded to face that side off until it was smooth all the way across but still thick enough to put the crank gear far enough out. I than cut the gear facing portion down and chamfered it to fit in the back side of the 2.4L crank gear. The 2.4L crank gear has three holes tapped M6X1.0 part way so a special puller can remove it. I lined up the key ways and center punched the piece I had made. Drilled holes for 3 M6X1.0 bolts to check position and tapped the through holes in the gear all the way. Stuck some bolts in it to do a position check for depth, permanent bolts will be socket head and countersunk for clearance on the seal housing.

It appears to be near perfect as far as alignment with the tensioner. I will see what I need for the front of it to attach the 2.5L crank pulley on to. I bought an extra crank gear in case I mess this one up.

That looks great Bill! Well done!

[85lebaront2]

That looks great Bill! Well done!

Thanks! I still have to figure two things out, how to get a key that will positively locate it and how to get the 5 bolt crank pulley attached. I am going to see how hard it will be to enlarge the hole in the 2.4L gear, then if I can arrive at a decent size hole and have enough space in front of that gear, cut down the OD of the 2.5L gear so it's key way can be used. Then figure out how to fit 3 M6X1.0 bolts in between the 5 M8X1.25 holes for the crank pulley.

That may have to wait until I can do a good fit up of the head onto the block and sacrificing the Stratus head gasket I can't use anyway to get a final length on the timing belt. Once I have that I can secure the crank at TDC, line up the cam gears and clamp them so they can't move and get the crank gear so the belt is tight.

The 5 pulley bolts are fairly short, maybe 10mm thread length and pretty strong as per the markings so at worst case, I may end up using cut off M6 bolts as pins and making the gear to pulley hub a mild interference fit and use red Loctite on assembly of gear to adapter and rear hub to gear bolts so it becomes essentially a single piece.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks! I still have to figure two things out, how to get a key that will positively locate it and how to get the 5 bolt crank pulley attached. I am going to see how hard it will be to enlarge the hole in the 2.4L gear, then if I can arrive at a decent size hole and have enough space in front of that gear, cut down the OD of the 2.5L gear so it's key way can be used. Then figure out how to fit 3 M6X1.0 bolts in between the 5 M8X1.25 holes for the crank pulley.

That may have to wait until I can do a good fit up of the head onto the block and sacrificing the Stratus head gasket I can't use anyway to get a final length on the timing belt. Once I have that I can secure the crank at TDC, line up the cam gears and clamp them so they can't move and get the crank gear so the belt is tight.

The 5 pulley bolts are fairly short, maybe 10mm thread length and pretty strong as per the markings so at worst case, I may end up using cut off M6 bolts as pins and making the gear to pulley hub a mild interference fit and use red Loctite on assembly of gear to adapter and rear hub to gear bolts so it becomes essentially a single piece.

Wow, great work Bill!

Timing is going to be critical.

Are you willing to rely on Loctite???

Have you considered just putting a pin in the annulus between the two gears?

[85lebaront2]

Wow, great work Bill!

Timing is going to be critical.

Are you willing to rely on Loctite???

Have you considered just putting a pin in the annulus between the two gears?

I'm still in the process, I have thought about pins. Right now I am working on cutting down the 2.5L crank gear. That powdered metal tears up the cutting tools.

What I am trying to get is an extended hub where the teeth are now, the idea being an interference fit between the hub and gear. so once the correct timing location for the crank gear is determined, they outer one can be heated to hopefully allow the center to be quickly inserted and clamped while it cools. Then possibly one or more roll pins coated with red Loctite so they can't come out at high rpm.