T2K-CAR

[85lebaront2]

On second thought, or as my 2nd cup of Joe kicks in, there isn't enough meat in the 2.4L sprocket to bore it far enough to take all of the keyway out. And I doubt the 2.5L sprocket would survive if turned down to fit inside. In fact, I don't see how to hold the 2.5L sprocket to turn it down that far as it would spring open and come off the mandrel. So ditch that plan.

I'm thinking now that it might work to make a shim that would press fit into the 2.4L sprocket and be held in with Locktite Red. Then put the sprocket in the mill and take out the portion of the shim that is at the keyway.

That leaves you with a keyway that is 3.98mm/.157" wide when the keyway on the crank is 4.07mm/.160" wide. It would then be needle-file time.

And, the keyway will be too deep and will have to either be filled with epoxy or a special key used.

But it also means your keyway is wherever it is on the 2.4L sprocket. Can you live with that?

Sounds at least reasonable. I need to extract the key from the crank to see what it looks like. I have a woodruff key assortment I bought at Fastenal years ago. I also need to figure out how far out the sprocket needs to sit on the crank snout to be in the same plane as the cam sprockets.

It may end up as a stub shaft that goes over the crank snout with the sprocket being a press fit and the key for it being separate form the existing key.

Wherever the key ends up will be what I have as not having all the identical pieces of the 2.4L timing system may (and probably will) vary the actual location of the cam gears +/- a half tooth.

Crank pulleys, 2.2/2.5L are held onto the sprocket with 5 M8X1.25 bolts. The 2.4L is an actual balancer and presses on the crank with a large center bolt, probably a key to align it.

[Gary Lewis]

Sounds at least reasonable. I need to extract the key from the crank to see what it looks like. I have a woodruff key assortment I bought at Fastenal years ago. I also need to figure out how far out the sprocket needs to sit on the crank snout to be in the same plane as the cam sprockets.

It may end up as a stub shaft that goes over the crank snout with the sprocket being a press fit and the key for it being separate form the existing key.

Wherever the key ends up will be what I have as not having all the identical pieces of the 2.4L timing system may (and probably will) vary the actual location of the cam gears +/- a half tooth.

Crank pulleys, 2.2/2.5L are held onto the sprocket with 5 M8X1.25 bolts. The 2.4L is an actual balancer and presses on the crank with a large center bolt, probably a key to align it.

Bill - I've lost track of where we are on this. I was thinking you were taking measurements with a straightedge to see how far forward the accessories go. And with that we could discuss creating a stub shaft as you suggested. But now that I look back on all the traffic I'm not sure that is the case.

I think the idea of a stub shaft is a good one - assuming there's enough room for it. But I don't have a way to broach it for the keyway. I could probably mill it, but that would make the keyway rounded at the top.

Anyway, is the ball in my court or yours?

[85lebaront2]

Bill - I've lost track of where we are on this. I was thinking you were taking measurements with a straightedge to see how far forward the accessories go. And with that we could discuss creating a stub shaft as you suggested. But now that I look back on all the traffic I'm not sure that is the case.

I think the idea of a stub shaft is a good one - assuming there's enough room for it. But I don't have a way to broach it for the keyway. I could probably mill it, but that would make the keyway rounded at the top.

Anyway, is the ball in my court or yours?

Right now it is still in my court. I went to Pick-n-Pull in VB today and got most of what I needed, I couldn't get the balancer off, Northern Tool puller snapped one of the Chinesium bolts for the jaws. Once I get a chance to mock some things up and get some decent pictures/measurements I will send them to you.

One question, have you ever tried any machining on powered metal parts? The gears on the 2.4L are powdered metal and if I want to use the entire 2.4L set, I will need to make an extra cam gear fit the 2.5L intermediate (distributor and oil pump drive) shaft. It is either that or try to make the 40 tooth 2.5L gear line up with the wider gears for the 2.4L DOHC setup. Since I am not using the block location for the distributor (it will be on the head driven backwards by the intake cam) if the oil pump turns 5% faster it shouldn't be a problem. It will mean having to use a 24mm wide instead of a 28mm wide belt, and still do some modifications to get everything lined up.

[Gary Lewis]

Right now it is still in my court. I went to Pick-n-Pull in VB today and got most of what I needed, I couldn't get the balancer off, Northern Tool puller snapped one of the Chinesium bolts for the jaws. Once I get a chance to mock some things up and get some decent pictures/measurements I will send them to you.

One question, have you ever tried any machining on powered metal parts? The gears on the 2.4L are powdered metal and if I want to use the entire 2.4L set, I will need to make an extra cam gear fit the 2.5L intermediate (distributor and oil pump drive) shaft. It is either that or try to make the 40 tooth 2.5L gear line up with the wider gears for the 2.4L DOHC setup. Since I am not using the block location for the distributor (it will be on the head driven backwards by the intake cam) if the oil pump turns 5% faster it shouldn't be a problem. It will mean having to use a 24mm wide instead of a 28mm wide belt, and still do some modifications to get everything lined up.

Ok, glad the ball is in your court. I was afraid it was in my court and I was supposed to be doing something.

And I've not machined anything made of powdered metal. A bit of reading says there are many different compositions of powdered metal, and that changes the ease with which they are machined. Plus they have microscopic voids which means there are lots of little "interruptions" in the cut, and that creates chatter and rough finishes. But it can be machined.

[85lebaront2]

Ok, glad the ball is in your court. I was afraid it was in my court and I was supposed to be doing something.

And I've not machined anything made of powdered metal. A bit of reading says there are many different compositions of powdered metal, and that changes the ease with which they are machined. Plus they have microscopic voids which means there are lots of little "interruptions" in the cut, and that creates chatter and rough finishes. But it can be machined.

I am trying right now to figure out which way to go on the timing belt, right side motor mount and accessory mounts (AC, PS and Alternator). The 2.4L engine uses a timing belt driven water pump that is mounted in the block in a protruding section with the water inlet entering the impeller through a pipe that is centered on it. The 2.5L engine has the water entrance to the block in the same area, but the actual pump is mounted low down with a curved casting containing the discharge, it also rotates backwards in relation to the crank.

The result is the accessory locations are quite different. 2.5L PS pump is on the back side next to the manifolds, but not attached to the head in any way. AC compressor is on the front on a large aluminum casting that also carries the alternator. Alternator ends up slightly above and forward of the water pump.

On the 2.4L that I got the parts from, a PT Cruiser, the alternator sits behind the engine low down with a dedicated belt, AC compressor low (oil pan level) in front with the PS pump above it near but above the water pump and both are driven by the same auto tensioned belt (both are polygroove).

After doing some fitting of the timing belt tensioner and the big hunk of cast iron that holds the power steering pump and supports the right end of the engine, it looks like using the front upper bolt location in the 2.5L block it puts the timing belt tensioner in the correct area and with the rear upper bolt location rotated against the bottom of the head the angle matches the stamped 2.5L mount. The center of the actual mount is exactly 7" from the face of the block on the 2.2L in the car and the through bolt holding the two halves of the mount together is 3.5" from the face of the block. The center of the holes for the upper torque reaction strut on the PT Cruiser are 3.5" from the face of block.

The 2.5L timing belt goes around the right side mount bracket necessitating complete disassembly of the AC compressor and alternator mount to change it. This big chunk of aluminum is going to be the biggest challenge outside of the crank adapter due to the way it is attached. There are 5 M10 X 1.5 bolts with somewhat oversize spring washers that go 3 into the block and 2 into the head flanking #1 plug. There is a probably 3.5" long stud and a similar bolt in the end of the block that go through that casting and a "dogbone" shaped spacer between the motor mount and the casting so once everything is tightened the AC compressor is very solid.

[Gary Lewis]

I am trying right now to figure out which way to go on the timing belt, right side motor mount and accessory mounts (AC, PS and Alternator). The 2.4L engine uses a timing belt driven water pump that is mounted in the block in a protruding section with the water inlet entering the impeller through a pipe that is centered on it. The 2.5L engine has the water entrance to the block in the same area, but the actual pump is mounted low down with a curved casting containing the discharge, it also rotates backwards in relation to the crank.

The result is the accessory locations are quite different. 2.5L PS pump is on the back side next to the manifolds, but not attached to the head in any way. AC compressor is on the front on a large aluminum casting that also carries the alternator. Alternator ends up slightly above and forward of the water pump.

On the 2.4L that I got the parts from, a PT Cruiser, the alternator sits behind the engine low down with a dedicated belt, AC compressor low (oil pan level) in front with the PS pump above it near but above the water pump and both are driven by the same auto tensioned belt (both are polygroove).

After doing some fitting of the timing belt tensioner and the big hunk of cast iron that holds the power steering pump and supports the right end of the engine, it looks like using the front upper bolt location in the 2.5L block it puts the timing belt tensioner in the correct area and with the rear upper bolt location rotated against the bottom of the head the angle matches the stamped 2.5L mount. The center of the actual mount is exactly 7" from the face of the block on the 2.2L in the car and the through bolt holding the two halves of the mount together is 3.5" from the face of the block. The center of the holes for the upper torque reaction strut on the PT Cruiser are 3.5" from the face of block.

The 2.5L timing belt goes around the right side mount bracket necessitating complete disassembly of the AC compressor and alternator mount to change it. This big chunk of aluminum is going to be the biggest challenge outside of the crank adapter due to the way it is attached. There are 5 M10 X 1.5 bolts with somewhat oversize spring washers that go 3 into the block and 2 into the head flanking #1 plug. There is a probably 3.5" long stud and a similar bolt in the end of the block that go through that casting and a "dogbone" shaped spacer between the motor mount and the casting so once everything is tightened the AC compressor is very solid.

It is hard to imagine all that w/o pics, and might be hard to figure out with pics. But it sure seems challenging! Man, that seems like a whole lot of work.

[85lebaront2]

It is hard to imagine all that w/o pics, and might be hard to figure out with pics. But it sure seems challenging! Man, that seems like a whole lot of work.

Yes, it is, but so was BB. I don't right now have any good pictures as I was just doing some test fitting on the block with the good head just sitting on it and going back and forth with the various pieces.

I need to dig around and find the extra AC compressor bracket and the "dogbone" spacer so I can get a better line up on the parts.

I think I have a good plan on the crank gear mounting, it may involve a "cheat", loctiting the gear to the adapter after making the adapter almost an interference fit in it.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, it is, but so was BB. I don't right now have any good pictures as I was just doing some test fitting on the block with the good head just sitting on it and going back and forth with the various pieces.

I need to dig around and find the extra AC compressor bracket and the "dogbone" spacer so I can get a better line up on the parts.

I think I have a good plan on the crank gear mounting, it may involve a "cheat", loctiting the gear to the adapter after making the adapter almost an interference fit in it.

Yes, BB was a major project, as was Darth, so we are familiar with "projects".

Speaking of Darth, I don't think that 4300 carb sold, and I have stuff to get back to you, so???

[85lebaront2]

Yes, BB was a major project, as was Darth, so we are familiar with "projects".

Speaking of Darth, I don't think that 4300 carb sold, and I have stuff to get back to you, so???

Price?? Now I need a nice 1/2" thick piece of aluminum plate that can be drilled and tapped for the 4300D and drilled for the EFI upper plenum bolt pattern.

From what you have posted, it looks like it was a great event as always!

[Gary Lewis]

Price?? Now I need a nice 1/2" thick piece of aluminum plate that can be drilled and tapped for the 4300D and drilled for the EFI upper plenum bolt pattern.

From what you have posted, it looks like it was a great event as always!

Price? I dunno. Not much 'cause shipping will be a bunch - it is heavy.

Can you bolt a spreadbore adapter to my carb/plenum adapter? Do you need a dizzy to start it up with? If so, a DS-II module?