T2K-CAR

[FuzzFace2]

Rewire them. Since the engine harness is plugged together near the left side mount bracket, it will pretty much be a build it and plug it in. It becomes a matter of switching where the signal goes to the computer, Reference is circuit K24, SYNC is K44 they go to pins 24 and 44 respectively at the SBEC 60 pin plug, but before that they go through a 10 pin (4 large, 6 small) connector from engine harness to front end harness and another 3 in a 6 pin connector. It would be a matter of making a new harness for those and also having to make one for the throttle body as it's seven wires come right out of the front end harness just behind the TB and it will end up closer to the radiator.

At the cars & coffee I was at this morning had 2 K cars both rag tops and 1 of them is a new member in the car club I am a member and it is a turbo car.

I should have gotten a picture of the car, I am sure I can at another time / outing.

Dave ----

[85lebaront2]

Man, this is serious stuff working with oil supplies and returns. But, what do you need, Bill? Something I can make?

Gary, in reply to your offer on 5 July, there is something if you have time or maybe McMaster-Carr or similar might have something.

The 2.5L crank snout is a press fit in a 26mm hole and the bore in the 2.4L crank sprocket is 30mm or close thereto. I may also have to space it out just a bit as the 2.4L belt sits further out than the 2.5L. I do have some extra space as the 2.4L sprocket is only 32.69mm deep and the 2.5L original sprocket is 48.54mm deep. Crank snout is 25.18mm so it may be interesting. It obviously needs a key to keep it from slipping on the shaft. Sprockets appear to be powdered metal rather than machined, but are magnetic. There may also be a need for an adapter for the crank pulley as the 2.4L sprocket has 3 bolts for a damper and the 2.5L uses 5 for the pulley. That will have to wait on fitting up of accessories (PS, WP, Alt and AC). The 2.4L engines use a serpentine belt with the timing belt running the water pump so I may see if something like that will work.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, in reply to your offer on 5 July, there is something if you have time or maybe McMaster-Carr or similar might have something.

The 2.5L crank snout is a press fit in a 26mm hole and the bore in the 2.4L crank sprocket is 30mm or close thereto. I may also have to space it out just a bit as the 2.4L belt sits further out than the 2.5L. I do have some extra space as the 2.4L sprocket is only 32.69mm deep and the 2.5L original sprocket is 48.54mm deep. Crank snout is 25.18mm so it may be interesting. It obviously needs a key to keep it from slipping on the shaft. Sprockets appear to be powdered metal rather than machined, but are magnetic. There may also be a need for an adapter for the crank pulley as the 2.4L sprocket has 3 bolts for a damper and the 2.5L uses 5 for the pulley. That will have to wait on fitting up of accessories (PS, WP, Alt and AC). The 2.4L engines use a serpentine belt with the timing belt running the water pump so I may see if something like that will work.

Bill - I read this late last night and thought I'd wait to reply until this morning as then maybe I could get my head around it. I'm now almost done with my first cup of Joe and it is starting to make sense. But let me see if I have it right. There are two things that need to be made - a sprocket adapter and a pulley adapter - right?

Here's what I think I understand about the sprocket adapter.

• Adapter Diameter: The crank's snout is ~26mm and the sprocket is ~30mm, so you'll need an adapter sleeve that is ~26mm ID and ~30mm OD.

• Keyway: But it needs to be keyed to the crank and to the sprocket - right? And don't these keys need to be in the same spot to properly phase the sprocket? And won't the keyways go completely through the adapter? Could we stagger the keyways? Yes, it would cause the dots on the sprockets to be off, but...

• Adapter Length: You said you may have to space it out a bit and gave some dimensions, and from what you said it seems like the 2.5L sprocket is intended to seat fully on the crank snout. But the 2.4L sprocket is bored ~16mm less (48mm-32mm) so if the edges of the gear teeth are the same distance from the rear of the sprocket then it is automatically spaced out 16mm. Right?

And we don't need to worry about the pulley adapter right now as that will have to wait until fitting up. Right?

[85lebaront2]

Bill - I read this late last night and thought I'd wait to reply until this morning as then maybe I could get my head around it. I'm now almost done with my first cup of Joe and it is starting to make sense. But let me see if I have it right. There are two things that need to be made - a sprocket adapter and a pulley adapter - right?

Here's what I think I understand about the sprocket adapter.

• Adapter Diameter: The crank's snout is ~26mm and the sprocket is ~30mm, so you'll need an adapter sleeve that is ~26mm ID and ~30mm OD.

• Keyway: But it needs to be keyed to the crank and to the sprocket - right? And don't these keys need to be in the same spot to properly phase the sprocket? And won't the keyways go completely through the adapter? Could we stagger the keyways? Yes, it would cause the dots on the sprockets to be off, but...

• Adapter Length: You said you may have to space it out a bit and gave some dimensions, and from what you said it seems like the 2.5L sprocket is intended to seat fully on the crank snout. But the 2.4L sprocket is bored ~16mm less (48mm-32mm) so if the edges of the gear teeth are the same distance from the rear of the sprocket then it is automatically spaced out 16mm. Right?

And we don't need to worry about the pulley adapter right now as that will have to wait until fitting up. Right?

Keys do not need to be in the same place, the timing marks will not ever match unless they are made to. The only thing, the existing key way in the 2.4L sprocket is in-line with a "valley" between two teeth and is 5.26mm deep X 4.0mm wide. I can measure the existing key in the crank.

Key is on the top of the crank in-line with the vertical center on the cylinder block at TDC #1 and 4. Timing marks are on the flywheel or torque converter depending on transaxle used so that doesn't need to be considered.

I can send the 2.4L and 2.5L sprockets to you if that will help and I will see if I can measure the CL distance of the cam sprockets and idler from the block face as it is a machined surface and the face of the face of the front seal portion of the crank where the original sprocket bottoms.

[Gary Lewis]

Keys do not need to be in the same place, the timing marks will not ever match unless they are made to. The only thing, the existing key way in the 2.4L sprocket is in-line with a "valley" between two teeth and is 5.26mm deep X 4.0mm wide. I can measure the existing key in the crank.

Key is on the top of the crank in-line with the vertical center on the cylinder block at TDC #1 and 4. Timing marks are on the flywheel or torque converter depending on transaxle used so that doesn't need to be considered.

I can send the 2.4L and 2.5L sprockets to you if that will help and I will see if I can measure the CL distance of the cam sprockets and idler from the block face as it is a machined surface and the face of the face of the front seal portion of the crank where the original sprocket bottoms.

What kind of timeframe are you looking at? I ask because I won't be able to get to it until after the trip to New Mexico in October because we have the show and then a cruise 'twixt now and then.

And I'm not sure I need the sprockets, although it might help. But good pictures and measurements would probably do it. I'll want to draw the crank and both sprockets up in CAD and we could bat that back and forth to make sure we agree, and we could be doing some of that now to be ready for time in the shop.

In thinking through how to make the adaptor for the sprocket it seems fairly straight forward - until I get to the keyway for the crank. The keyway on the OD I can do with an end mill, but I haven't figured out how to do the one on the ID. Any ideas? Is that something that you could have broached?

[85lebaront2]

What kind of timeframe are you looking at? I ask because I won't be able to get to it until after the trip to New Mexico in October because we have the show and then a cruise 'twixt now and then.

And I'm not sure I need the sprockets, although it might help. But good pictures and measurements would probably do it. I'll want to draw the crank and both sprockets up in CAD and we could bat that back and forth to make sure we agree, and we could be doing some of that now to be ready for time in the shop.

In thinking through how to make the adaptor for the sprocket it seems fairly straight forward - until I get to the keyway for the crank. The keyway on the OD I can do with an end mill, but I haven't figured out how to do the one on the ID. Any ideas? Is that something that you could have broached?

Ok, I will get you pictures and measurements, time isn't a huge issue as I will still have to (a) rebuild the head, (b) rebuild the short block and © make the block and head modifications for oil feed and return.

The other option is modifying the 2.5L crank sprocket which appears to be powdered metal by extending the teeth all the way to the front side (or close) so that I can use my FWD Performance adjustable cam sprockets which are 40 tooth to match the 2.5L 20 tooth crank sprocket.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I will get you pictures and measurements, time isn't a huge issue as I will still have to (a) rebuild the head, (b) rebuild the short block and © make the block and head modifications for oil feed and return.

The other option is modifying the 2.5L crank sprocket which appears to be powdered metal by extending the teeth all the way to the front side (or close) so that I can use my FWD Performance adjustable cam sprockets which are 40 tooth to match the 2.5L 20 tooth crank sprocket.

Got your note with the s/s and pics. I'll try to get my head around them tomorrow. But you mentioned 2.5L, 2.5L Turbo, and 2.4L. You are using the 2.4L sprocket on a 2.5L crank. Right? If so, what does the 2.5L Turbo sprocket have to do with it?

[85lebaront2]

Got your note with the s/s and pics. I'll try to get my head around them tomorrow. But you mentioned 2.5L, 2.5L Turbo, and 2.4L. You are using the 2.4L sprocket on a 2.5L crank. Right? If so, what does the 2.5L Turbo sprocket have to do with it?

Should have been 2.2L, 2.5L Turbo and 2.4L. 2.5L turbo is for reference as it is what goes over the 2.5L crank snout. It is also referred to as a common block as 1989 up the 2.2 and 2.5L shared a block, prior to that they were different, 2.2L from 1981-1984/5 used 10mm head bolts 1985-88 11mm and all had a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. 1986-88 2.5L are called "tall block" as they are like the RB V8s, taller deck height. 1989-end of production there is one block design, just machined for different applications.

[Gary Lewis]

Should have been 2.2L, 2.5L Turbo and 2.4L. 2.5L turbo is for reference as it is what goes over the 2.5L crank snout. It is also referred to as a common block as 1989 up the 2.2 and 2.5L shared a block, prior to that they were different, 2.2L from 1981-1984/5 used 10mm head bolts 1985-88 11mm and all had a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. 1986-88 2.5L are called "tall block" as they are like the RB V8s, taller deck height. 1989-end of production there is one block design, just machined for different applications.

I've looked at the pics and am a bit confused as to how the pulley/damper attaches, but lets hold that for a bit.

My first thought was to turn a 2.5L sprocket down to be the shim as it has the keyway already in it. But the 2.5L sprocket has a keyway that is 4.13mm deep and our shim is only going to be 1.95mm thick. So the 2.5L sprocket would probably fall apart as it was being turned down. Or at least would expand when the cut finally got to the keyway.

So what about boring a 2.4L sprocket out to something more than the 2.5L's keyway depth, and then turning a 2.5L sprocket down and pressing that into the 2.4L sprocket with Locktite Red on it?

The 2.4L's ID plus keyway depth is 34.81mm so we'd want to bore to something like 35.00mm to take the whole of that narrow keyway out. But that would mean the thickness of the shim above the keyway would only be 2.435 mm, so maybe we'd need to take the 2.4L sprocket out to more like 40mm?

What do you think of that approach? If it looks like it'll work can you see what kind of room we have on the 2.4L sprocket to bore it out?

[Gary Lewis]

I've looked at the pics and am a bit confused as to how the pulley/damper attaches, but lets hold that for a bit.

My first thought was to turn a 2.5L sprocket down to be the shim as it has the keyway already in it. But the 2.5L sprocket has a keyway that is 4.13mm deep and our shim is only going to be 1.95mm thick. So the 2.5L sprocket would probably fall apart as it was being turned down. Or at least would expand when the cut finally got to the keyway.

So what about boring a 2.4L sprocket out to something more than the 2.5L's keyway depth, and then turning a 2.5L sprocket down and pressing that into the 2.4L sprocket with Locktite Red on it?

The 2.4L's ID plus keyway depth is 34.81mm so we'd want to bore to something like 35.00mm to take the whole of that narrow keyway out. But that would mean the thickness of the shim above the keyway would only be 2.435 mm, so maybe we'd need to take the 2.4L sprocket out to more like 40mm?

What do you think of that approach? If it looks like it'll work can you see what kind of room we have on the 2.4L sprocket to bore it out?

On second thought, or as my 2nd cup of Joe kicks in, there isn't enough meat in the 2.4L sprocket to bore it far enough to take all of the keyway out. And I doubt the 2.5L sprocket would survive if turned down to fit inside. In fact, I don't see how to hold the 2.5L sprocket to turn it down that far as it would spring open and come off the mandrel. So ditch that plan.

I'm thinking now that it might work to make a shim that would press fit into the 2.4L sprocket and be held in with Locktite Red. Then put the sprocket in the mill and take out the portion of the shim that is at the keyway.

That leaves you with a keyway that is 3.98mm/.157" wide when the keyway on the crank is 4.07mm/.160" wide. It would then be needle-file time.

And, the keyway will be too deep and will have to either be filled with epoxy or a special key used.

But it also means your keyway is wherever it is on the 2.4L sprocket. Can you live with that?