T2K-CAR

[85lebaront2]

Well, we'll see where this goes. Gary is not the only one with interest in other vehicles. A number of years ago a friend bough a wrecked 1985 Chrysler LeBaron convertible to get the engine from it to use in a Mazda B2600 for another man. He asked me if I was interested in it since I had a 1987 Omni. We found out when we started seriously looking that, almost everything on the Mitsubishi 2.6L was the same or could be switched, except, the location for the right side motor mount, two of the bolt locations didn't exist. I paid him what he had in the car since the engine couldn't be used and drove it for 2 years before the Mitsubishi curse struck. Got hard to start after sitting and was using water. Did a pressure test cold with the plugs out, spun it over and struck water in 3 of the 4 cylinders.

In the mean time, the Mitsubishi engine was a bit anemic and not super economical and in talking to a friend from Cary NC, he said "Why don't you put a turbo in it?" I had picked up a couple of the Chrysler Lasers, same as the Dodge FWD Daytonas. The 1984 used a very early turbo system with minimal electronics an a purely mechanical boost control, the 1986 had a bad engine. I was at a junkyard in Ivor VA and the owner's son had put a 1987 LeBaron 4dr sedan aside for parts for me. It had a 2.2L Turbo I engine, he wanted and old Dell laptop I had so we traded computer for powertrain.

As you can see, it was just a little oily, so it was sort of a pig in a poke so to speak.

[85lebaront2]

Ok, a little more now that dinner is over. First a little technical information, between 1983 when Chrysler first built TBI engines and 1995 they used 3 different style computers, the first was a two part system a brain and brawn setup, the brain or Logic Module sat in the right kick panel, and since it could get wet from a windshield leak, it was partially covered with a plastic bag sealed to the harness and had two multi-pin connectors, first years were 21 pins, then from 1985-1987 they were two 25 pin connectors, TBI models were natural and black, turbos blue and red. The brawn or power module contained the shut down relay and power or SCR components to operate the various controlled components and had two larger connectors, one 10 pin and one 12 pin, and just like Ford, not all pins were used. It resided between the battery and the left inner fender underhood. In 1988, the two parts were "married" in a single case that went where the power module had been freeing up the logic module area for anti-theft and body computers. The resulting unit was called a Single Module Engine Controller or SMEC. At the same time the processor capacity was increased. These were only used for two years, 1988 and 1989 and used one 60 pin connector for the logic board and a 14 pin for the power board. The logic board could be removed from the power board and case allowing a small number of power boards to cover a number of engine/body/transmission options. In 1990, the two boards were merged into one, and again the processor capacity was increased. These Single Board Engine Controllers, or SBECs are broken into SBEC I and SBEC II, both look the same, but are different internally and use a single 60 pin connector. Biggest change for me was the Turbo engines went from bank fired injectors to sequential, however, Chrysler to my knowledge still uses a MAP sensor. In 1996 the whole thing changed again.

My original car had the best two part system, 1987 Daytona electronics which was the only early system other than the TBI to use a stepper motor for idle control, the others had a reversible motor. The new car will have a 1991 SBEC, socketed to allow for a custom tune. This is similar to using a tuner chip on a Ford system other than an EEC-V. This will also allow me to use a computer controlled overdrive automatic later.

Chrysler has a nifty little TSD computer called a Traveler that also can track fuel economy. Up until the SBEC it used a fuel signal from the logic module or board, with the SBEC, all vehicles using them have a twisted pair data system that any other module can tie into. I had to find a newer traveler and a body computer and add them to make it work.

K car dashboards were conceived as bare bones, idiot lights and minimal gauges. When the LeBaron and Dodge 400, followed by a few other "super Ks" as they were know arrived, they dash height is too low for full gauges, the Daytona and Laser bodies had a taller instrument area. The super Ks were optioned with a digital dash with bar graph style gauges, but digital speedometer. A tach was offered, LEDs at 250 rpm intervals in a 2 1/2" arc. I found that since damn near everything Chrysler built in the 80s shares a lot of common dimensions, a 1989 LeBaron Coupe dash fits and has a very nice set of electronic analog gauges. Best analogy, 1980 F150 dash to a 1995 F150 dash, completely different appearance. One HVAC module fits all the larger cars from the Reliant to the Imperial so a complete electronic automatic climate control is a drop in.

The 1983-1986 convertibles have a number of idiosyncrasies, the power seats are convertible specific, no power mirrors were offered and the manual ones are door mounted cables and small, rear quarter windows from 1984-86 are always power as there is no place for cranks, 1983 had no rear quarter windows. I adapted a set of sedan power mirrors so I have the larger power remote mirrors.

Since I loath fusible links, I adapted a 1996 Dodge Stratus power distribution center which has the capability for a two speed cooling fan. Due to the intercooler for the turbo, the factory fan is fairly small, and cools ok, but the A/C system will not easily tolerate R134a. I adapted a pair of fans from a 1999 Contour, by reversing them into a pusher configuration and use the Stratus PDC for low speed and a binary switch from a Taurus to (a) command high fan and (b) if necessary shut off the compressor.

Now you have some of the electrical/electronic modifications I am doing.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, a little more now that dinner is over. First a little technical information, between 1983 when Chrysler first built TBI engines and 1995 they used 3 different style computers, the first was a two part system a brain and brawn setup, the brain or Logic Module sat in the right kick panel, and since it could get wet from a windshield leak, it was partially covered with a plastic bag sealed to the harness and had two multi-pin connectors, first years were 21 pins, then from 1985-1987 they were two 25 pin connectors, TBI models were natural and black, turbos blue and red. The brawn or power module contained the shut down relay and power or SCR components to operate the various controlled components and had two larger connectors, one 10 pin and one 12 pin, and just like Ford, not all pins were used. It resided between the battery and the left inner fender underhood. In 1988, the two parts were "married" in a single case that went where the power module had been freeing up the logic module area for anti-theft and body computers. The resulting unit was called a Single Module Engine Controller or SMEC. At the same time the processor capacity was increased. These were only used for two years, 1988 and 1989 and used one 60 pin connector for the logic board and a 14 pin for the power board. The logic board could be removed from the power board and case allowing a small number of power boards to cover a number of engine/body/transmission options. In 1990, the two boards were merged into one, and again the processor capacity was increased. These Single Board Engine Controllers, or SBECs are broken into SBEC I and SBEC II, both look the same, but are different internally and use a single 60 pin connector. Biggest change for me was the Turbo engines went from bank fired injectors to sequential, however, Chrysler to my knowledge still uses a MAP sensor. In 1996 the whole thing changed again.

My original car had the best two part system, 1987 Daytona electronics which was the only early system other than the TBI to use a stepper motor for idle control, the others had a reversible motor. The new car will have a 1991 SBEC, socketed to allow for a custom tune. This is similar to using a tuner chip on a Ford system other than an EEC-V. This will also allow me to use a computer controlled overdrive automatic later.

Chrysler has a nifty little TSD computer called a Traveler that also can track fuel economy. Up until the SBEC it used a fuel signal from the logic module or board, with the SBEC, all vehicles using them have a twisted pair data system that any other module can tie into. I had to find a newer traveler and a body computer and add them to make it work.

K car dashboards were conceived as bare bones, idiot lights and minimal gauges. When the LeBaron and Dodge 400, followed by a few other "super Ks" as they were know arrived, they dash height is too low for full gauges, the Daytona and Laser bodies had a taller instrument area. The super Ks were optioned with a digital dash with bar graph style gauges, but digital speedometer. A tach was offered, LEDs at 250 rpm intervals in a 2 1/2" arc. I found that since damn near everything Chrysler built in the 80s shares a lot of common dimensions, a 1989 LeBaron Coupe dash fits and has a very nice set of electronic analog gauges. Best analogy, 1980 F150 dash to a 1995 F150 dash, completely different appearance. One HVAC module fits all the larger cars from the Reliant to the Imperial so a complete electronic automatic climate control is a drop in.

The 1983-1986 convertibles have a number of idiosyncrasies, the power seats are convertible specific, no power mirrors were offered and the manual ones are door mounted cables and small, rear quarter windows from 1984-86 are always power as there is no place for cranks, 1983 had no rear quarter windows. I adapted a set of sedan power mirrors so I have the larger power remote mirrors.

Since I loath fusible links, I adapted a 1996 Dodge Stratus power distribution center which has the capability for a two speed cooling fan. Due to the intercooler for the turbo, the factory fan is fairly small, and cools ok, but the A/C system will not easily tolerate R134a. I adapted a pair of fans from a 1999 Contour, by reversing them into a pusher configuration and use the Stratus PDC for low speed and a binary switch from a Taurus to (a) command high fan and (b) if necessary shut off the compressor.

Now you have some of the electrical/electronic modifications I am doing.

Wow! How much of this are you doing at present? Or, is this in the past?

Much of it sounds like Ford stuff, so the various manufacturers were basically doing the same things at the same time.

So, where are you with the project? And, tell us more about the engine.

[85lebaront2]

Wow! How much of this are you doing at present? Or, is this in the past?

Much of it sounds like Ford stuff, so the various manufacturers were basically doing the same things at the same time.

So, where are you with the project? And, tell us more about the engine.

The first is historical and some technical stuff giving background on what I did. The current replacement is at Pete's Custom Auto in Newport News, the floors were Flintstone Flyer condition, but the main structure is solid. They have put new floors in and trying to use a pristine trunk lid from a 1988 Reliant to replace the surface rusted and dented original.

The engine is a 1988 2.2L Turbo II which is the Shelby designed intercooled system with the unique two piece intake. The plenum and upper portion of the runners is bolted to the lower runners because the air path is a fairly long curve which puts the plenum right over the injectors and fuel rail. Chrysler replaced that design in 1988 with a one piece design that is taller, but has shorter runners. Cheaper to manufacture and easier to service. The T2 and 2.5L T1 engines use 34#/hr injectors and mine was running 14 psi boost which is good for roughly 200 HP from 135 ci. They are quite a stout little engine, their main limitation is the 8 port in-out head design similar to the 300 engines, they were also built in two different 16V versions, one with a Lotus designed head and the other with a Maserati designed head, the latter being used in the Chrysler TC by Maserati.

[85lebaront2]

The first is historical and some technical stuff giving background on what I did. The current replacement is at Pete's Custom Auto in Newport News, the floors were Flintstone Flyer condition, but the main structure is solid. They have put new floors in and trying to use a pristine trunk lid from a 1988 Reliant to replace the surface rusted and dented original.

The engine is a 1988 2.2L Turbo II which is the Shelby designed intercooled system with the unique two piece intake. The plenum and upper portion of the runners is bolted to the lower runners because the air path is a fairly long curve which puts the plenum right over the injectors and fuel rail. Chrysler replaced that design in 1988 with a one piece design that is taller, but has shorter runners. Cheaper to manufacture and easier to service. The T2 and 2.5L T1 engines use 34#/hr injectors and mine was running 14 psi boost which is good for roughly 200 HP from 135 ci. They are quite a stout little engine, their main limitation is the 8 port in-out head design similar to the 300 engines, they were also built in two different 16V versions, one with a Lotus designed head and the other with a Maserati designed head, the latter being used in the Chrysler TC by Maserati.

Here are some pictures of the original car:

[85lebaront2]

Here are some pictures of the original car:

You can see the digital dash, didn't have a shot with it on though.

I was having problems with the city about some vehicles inside my fenced yard (6 ft privacy fence) so I had to move them, Donnie Medlin at Pete's said he would store the convertible, and the Lebaron coupe and 1995 Continental for me, the dead Lesabre Diesel and Horizon he would remove. Unfortunately the convertible was in one of his off-site storage yards and may have been in an area that floods. He found that one of the storms that went through had blown something into the car, breaking the right rear quarter window and bending the top frame. He sent the car to me on a wrecker run to pick up an empty container from NASA Wallops Island. First thing I had to do was get the damaged remains of the top off, windshield had been broken by one of the neighbor's grandsons playing baseball.

After I got it stripped down to the main body, I found the carpet was soaked so it was junk and was of questionable condition before. I found that I can get a complete molded unit for under $200 so that is what it will get. Floors, well pretty bad, but they are modified from a standard K-car floor. Donnie asked me what were the differences between 1986 and 1988, Numbers are different, but who knows. He picked up a 1988 Reliant, perfect body, blown engine for parts for mine, that's a real friend!

[Gary Lewis]

I was having problems with the city about some vehicles inside my fenced yard (6 ft privacy fence) so I had to move them, Donnie Medlin at Pete's said he would store the convertible, and the Lebaron coupe and 1995 Continental for me, the dead Lesabre Diesel and Horizon he would remove. Unfortunately the convertible was in one of his off-site storage yards and may have been in an area that floods. He found that one of the storms that went through had blown something into the car, breaking the right rear quarter window and bending the top frame. He sent the car to me on a wrecker run to pick up an empty container from NASA Wallops Island. First thing I had to do was get the damaged remains of the top off, windshield had been broken by one of the neighbor's grandsons playing baseball.

After I got it stripped down to the main body, I found the carpet was soaked so it was junk and was of questionable condition before. I found that I can get a complete molded unit for under $200 so that is what it will get. Floors, well pretty bad, but they are modified from a standard K-car floor. Donnie asked me what were the differences between 1986 and 1988, Numbers are different, but who knows. He picked up a 1988 Reliant, perfect body, blown engine for parts for mine, that's a real friend!

That does sound like a stout engine. Any chance of finding a 16-valve setup? Or, is it worth it?

Shame about the damage, but it seems like you have a plan that'll work.

The floors don't seem terrible, but you have a plan for them already, do that's good. But is that a build sheet I see in one of the pics?

[85lebaront2]

That does sound like a stout engine. Any chance of finding a 16-valve setup? Or, is it worth it?

Shame about the damage, but it seems like you have a plan that'll work.

The floors don't seem terrible, but you have a plan for them already, do that's good. But is that a build sheet I see in one of the pics?

Yes, but it was not readable or salvageable. I pretty well know it was not heavily optioned, the 1985 was the Mark Cross edition, this was pretty basic, 2.2L TBI, auto, power steering and A/C, 6 way power driver's seat and power windows. As for the 16 valve, there is what the turbo Chrysler group calls a hybrid, you put a Neon SRT4 top end on a 2.5L turbo short block and with proper tuning around 400 HP. I have most of the conversion stuff already and a 1989 2.5L turbo long block less cam and followers. I want to see if I can get a 2.4L 41TE transaxle and adapt it, of the 4 block to transaxle bolts, 3 are in the same positions, main issue is the starter, 2.2/2.5L starters are on the back under the exhaust manifold and on a turbo, nestled between the turbo and the back of the block. 2.0/2.4L they on the front under the intake manifold, the location on the 2.2/2.5L blocks is pretty well clear of major problems, just the oil port for senders and turbo. It can be changed to an elbow and the block or a tee for the sender(s) and oil line located that way. The oil drains from the head are different and the alignment changed from two small pins, one at each end to hollow sleeves on the two end, front head bolts or studs. Then the issue of accessory brackets, A/C in particular comes in. If I do it, I will probably want to see if I can do a serpentine setup, as 1989 up 2.2/2.5L water pumps are reverse rotation anyway.

Here is a picture of the lower end when I assembled it:

[NotEnoughTrucks]

I was having problems with the city about some vehicles inside my fenced yard (6 ft privacy fence) so I had to move them, Donnie Medlin at Pete's said he would store the convertible, and the Lebaron coupe and 1995 Continental for me, the dead Lesabre Diesel and Horizon he would remove. Unfortunately the convertible was in one of his off-site storage yards and may have been in an area that floods. He found that one of the storms that went through had blown something into the car, breaking the right rear quarter window and bending the top frame. He sent the car to me on a wrecker run to pick up an empty container from NASA Wallops Island. First thing I had to do was get the damaged remains of the top off, windshield had been broken by one of the neighbor's grandsons playing baseball.

After I got it stripped down to the main body, I found the carpet was soaked so it was junk and was of questionable condition before. I found that I can get a complete molded unit for under $200 so that is what it will get. Floors, well pretty bad, but they are modified from a standard K-car floor. Donnie asked me what were the differences between 1986 and 1988, Numbers are different, but who knows. He picked up a 1988 Reliant, perfect body, blown engine for parts for mine, that's a real friend!

Seeing those K car floor pictures reminded me of a K car a buddy found stored in a garage with a dirt floor years back. Car was low mileage and looked pretty good on the outside, but the rockers and the floors were Swiss cheese! Ended up crushing the poor thing.

Always nice to see some of the other interests people have. Here's a picture of mine. Dave, (Fuzzface) may have seen this one before.

[85lebaront2]

Seeing those K car floor pictures reminded me of a K car a buddy found stored in a garage with a dirt floor years back. Car was low mileage and looked pretty good on the outside, but the rockers and the floors were Swiss cheese! Ended up crushing the poor thing.

Always nice to see some of the other interests people have. Here's a picture of mine. Dave, (Fuzzface) may have seen this one before.

Nice looking car!