Restomod's on Brutus

[ArdWrknTrk]

George - I think you have Super Bees and Superbirds confused. The Super Bee was a B-body Dodge hot rod, but without a wing. It was basically a Dodge Coronet with a hot engine and H/D suspension The Superbird was a heavily modified Plymouth Road Runner with a wing and was designed for super speedways. Dodge also had a winged racer, the Charger Daytona but, as the name implies, it was based on the Charger and not the Coronet.

The Dodge hot rods were the Super Bee, with a base 383, and the R/T with a base 440. The Plymouth hot rods were the Road Runner, with a 383 base, and the GTX with a 440 base.

And here we step into the shady world of homogulation vehicles.

i.e. you need to sell X (50, 250, 500?) of these cars in order to race them.

Never mind that you could sell 99% of them to your unofficial race team, and keep a few for yourself.

From Gary's Superspeedway example to Hot Hatches for Gymkana, Hill Climb and Rallye, everybody does it.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm following.

And I'll admit I missed where you said Boss 429.

I said the 429 was available in the Mustang back then so it wasn't a restomod.

If you were to do the body work I would call it a imposter/clone, not a restomod.

(It would really only be a clone if you changed it down to the most minute detail... DNA) like faking a VIN that reflected it was a Boss 429.

That's fraud and a crime, so let's not go there....

I certainly don't have anyone accusing me of a restomod.

I'd have to restore it before that could happen.

 

I said the 429 was available in the Mustang back then so it wasn't a restomod.

If you were to do the body work I would call it a imposter/clone, not a restomod.

The term I like for this is Replicar.

It is a replica.

True to the original in as many ways as possible, without stepping over the line.

Didn't Seinfeld recently get accused of trying to rip off a buyer with a vintage Porsche RS?

Again we go back to -the other side of the coin- "Bought, not Built"

 

[86 12 Brutus]

 

I said the 429 was available in the Mustang back then so it wasn't a restomod.

If you were to do the body work I would call it a imposter/clone, not a restomod.

The term I like for this is Replicar.

It is a replica.

True to the original in as many ways as possible, without stepping over the line.

Didn't Seinfeld recently get accused of trying to rip off a buyer with a vintage Porsche RS?

Again we go back to -the other side of the coin- "Bought, not Built"

Replica or replicar works for me.

[ratdude747]

By most of the definitions I've read of "restomod", any deviation from factory is a modification. So pointless ignition, as in Pertronix, would make it a restomod.

But you are right, there has to be some limit to that. If I added a right-hand rear view mirror, which most cars had but which my '69 Bee doesn't, would that be a mod? Technically yes, but there's no documentation on the vehicle to say it didn't have one, so... (Trust me, it needs one! The first day I had it I looked to the right and there was no car showing in the mirror so I started to move over. Then I realized there was no car showing in the mirror as there was no mirror. But, there was a car there!)

But to the question about the 429, that's a modification. But George's question about it being a clone is a good one. I guess I'd say that swapping the engine to a 429 makes it a restomod. But adding all of the badging and labels to say it is a Boss 429 is making it a clone.

So, maybe my personal dafynitions would be:

• Restoration: If it is essentially the way it rolled off the assembly line it is a restoration. Ok, maybe you can sneak a Pertronix module in the dash and go pointless and still call it a restoration. But you can't remove the Holley and put an AVS on there 'cause that's an improvement.

• Restomod: Anything that at, at first blush, looks like a restoration but turns out to be modified - for whatever reason. A 429 in a Mustang that didn't come with one would be one. An '85 F250 w/a '95 engine, transmission, front axle, and fuel system would be one.

• Clone: A vehicle that has had parts and badging changed to make it like, if not the same as, another vehicle. A 302-based '69 Mustang with a Boss 429 and all associated badging would be one. As would a '69 Bee with a Hemi and the associated D60 rear axle. (Note that Detroit put a D60 behind a Hemi and under a 460.)

Ok, here's another borderline case: my '84.

The only "modern" upgrades I've done to it that are visible are a new head unit (one that's meant to look stock from a distance though) and a CB radio addition. Less visible modernizations are a heated O2 upgrade (over the stock 1 wire O2), relay isolted radio power wiring, and rubber fuel lines with a clear plastic fuel filter. The tires are the stock size but clearly not a stock model (they're Hankook's)... and the shocks are aftermarket (KYB Excel-G's, a "stock-replacement" model). I did install aftermarket brake pads too... but the rest of the braking system is all stock or stock replacements.

There are some period correct swaps made with OEM parts too... mirrors (dunno what was stock, since it had aftermarket garbage when I bought it), instrument cluster (Tach and Trip odometer upgrade), headlight buzzer, and underhood retractable light.

I wouldn't call it a restomod since I kept the often-deleted stock emissions and feedback carb... the entire driveline is stock (other than new u-joints, which doesn't count IMHO). Not a pure restoration obviously... but one notch below?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok, here's another borderline case: my '84.

The only "modern" upgrades I've done to it that are visible are a new head unit (one that's meant to look stock from a distance though) and a CB radio addition. Less visible modernizations are a heated O2 upgrade (over the stock 1 wire O2), relay isolted radio power wiring, and rubber fuel lines with a clear plastic fuel filter. The tires are the stock size but clearly not a stock model (they're Hankook's)... and the shocks are aftermarket (KYB Excel-G's, a "stock-replacement" model). I did install aftermarket brake pads too... but the rest of the braking system is all stock or stock replacements.

There are some period correct swaps made with OEM parts too... mirrors (dunno what was stock, since it had aftermarket garbage when I bought it), instrument cluster (Tach and Trip odometer upgrade), headlight buzzer, and underhood retractable light.

I wouldn't call it a restomod since I kept the often-deleted stock emissions and feedback carb... the entire driveline is stock (other than new u-joints, which doesn't count IMHO). Not a pure restoration obviously... but one notch below?

A notch below what?

There's no such thing as a 'numbers matching' '80's Ford pickup.

While that sort of thing might be nice for a museum piece, I question the sanity of people who go that far with their personal vehicles.

I know a few, and the whole "concours" scene is a little unhinged from those I've had contact with.

It sounds like any other 36 year old truck.

When some parts wear out they get replaced with currently available stock. (shocks, brakes, tires, U-joints, wipers, battery, etc.)

[85lebaront2]

A notch below what?

There's no such thing as a 'numbers matching' '80's Ford pickup.

While that sort of thing might be nice for a museum piece, I question the sanity of people who go that far with their personal vehicles.

I know a few, and the whole "concours" scene is a little unhinged from those I've had contact with.

It sounds like any other 36 year old truck.

When some parts wear out they get replaced with currently available stock. (shocks, brakes, tires, U-joints, wipers, battery, etc.)

I guess my Chrysler konvertible would be a restomod as externally it will just be a nice looking 1986 K body Lebaron convertible, mechanically it has a 1988 short block and 1987 Daytona Turbo II intake with a 1989 Garrett turbo, 1991 Turbo automatic with lockup converter. Front suspension is upgraded to a 1989 J body Lebaron and the same on the rear including the disc brakes.

Interior will have the 1989 dash with either analog or digital gauges (wired for both), 1992 Imperial full electronic ATC system, 2001 Sebring 6 channel Infinity stereo. Only exterior clues will be 15" Aluminum wheels (Chrysler optional) with 205/60R-15 tyres and a small "Turbo" label on the front fenders. If I can find one, I will put one of the turbo hoods on, they have louvers to exhaust heat at stoplights.

[86 12 Brutus]

I guess my Chrysler konvertible would be a restomod as externally it will just be a nice looking 1986 K body Lebaron convertible, mechanically it has a 1988 short block and 1987 Daytona Turbo II intake with a 1989 Garrett turbo, 1991 Turbo automatic with lockup converter. Front suspension is upgraded to a 1989 J body Lebaron and the same on the rear including the disc brakes.

Interior will have the 1989 dash with either analog or digital gauges (wired for both), 1992 Imperial full electronic ATC system, 2001 Sebring 6 channel Infinity stereo. Only exterior clues will be 15" Aluminum wheels (Chrysler optional) with 205/60R-15 tyres and a small "Turbo" label on the front fenders. If I can find one, I will put one of the turbo hoods on, they have louvers to exhaust heat at stoplights.

Bill; Your little Chrysler is going ot be really cool by the time ur done. Me, i would think it would fall under the catagory of restomod, but again nobody really knows what the actual definition really is.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill; Your little Chrysler is going ot be really cool by the time ur done. Me, i would think it would fall under the catagory of restomod, but again nobody really knows what the actual definition really is.

I think sleeper would be the closest term...... and I LIKE IT!

While 205's might have a time hooking up, that old man in the next lane is gonna eat your lunch.

[86 12 Brutus]

I think sleeper would be the closest term...... and I LIKE IT!

While 205's might have a time hooking up, that old man in the next lane is gonna eat your lunch.

Just have to love the expressions on there faces. I got that alot when the 88 was running the roads

[85lebaront2]

Just have to love the expressions on there faces. I got that alot when the 88 was running the roads

The look on the Mustang GT driver's face when it sank in that the 1985 was a 4 cyl car that the exhaust buzz gave away was priceless.

Fun story on it, my son was dating a lady who lived in Northern VA. He had borrowed our 1993 Grand Caravan and been cut off at the "mixing bowl", Springfield VA interchange and had to go into DC and come back. The next trip he took the 85 konvertible, same thing happened, someone cut him off, his reaction "no damn way" and stood on it, digital speedometer only has two digits in MPH mode, but I had set the US/Export switch to Export. He said it went on up to 99, then 00 followed by 01, 02, 03 etc. I said "and?" he said it got to 21 before he let off in front of the clown and hit the brakes for the exit. Needless to say that's why the 86 has rear discs now. Mull on that, 121 mph in a K car and still pulling!