Autoline carb experience - best to avoid

[66gtk]

I purchased a rebuilt Autoline carb for my 84. This carb has been a disaster. I spent 2 days trying to tune it correctly and wasted a lot of time double, triple checking all my vacuum lines and other BS. Burning my arms over and over trying to turn the mixture screws, yadda yadda.

I pulled the carb for the second time and noticed that the top was cracked! I started taking it apart and found that it was cracked because the surface it was mounted to wasn't even close to level and they cracked the top when they tightened it down. There were details missed all over as I went further and further into the carb. Dirty parts, too. What a piece of junk. I was very disappointed. I would avoid this company as they don't do what they promise to do. I wasted 2 days trying to make this thing work and it was NEVER going to work based on how it was put together and "rebuilt".

When I called them I was treated well with understanding and the guy was accommodating for the return. Still, these are advertised as ready to go. Many of the various adjustments that are supposed to also be pre-set were completely wrong, too. Choke pull off, high idle cam adjustment, kickdown, etc

[Gary Lewis]

That's a shame. But thanks for letting us know. Some times it helps to share a link to your post with the vendor so they see that they've been called out for real.

[85lebaront2]

That's a shame. But thanks for letting us know. Some times it helps to share a link to your post with the vendor so they see that they've been called out for real.

Gary, et al, this exactly why the only rebuilt carbs Preston Carburation had were done in-house. I know what I sold to a core supplier, R. N. Grillo and company, they were junk that wasn't repairable, yet rebuilders would pay money for them.

Best story, Vince Grillo told me on one trip he would pay $10 per core for Chrysler Holleys, I went around to all the dealerships we sold to and bought up the Holley 4 barrels at $4 each ($1 per hole). He came on his next trip and I had him leave extra 55 gal barrels the previous time, 6 barrels of Chrysler Holley 4 barrels. He asked if he could just pick one at random, count them and multiply it by 6. I told him that was fine. He was peeling off $100s like they were $1s. Next trip he had some choice words, he ended up stuck with most of them. I told he asked for them, I just obliged.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, et al, this exactly why the only rebuilt carbs Preston Carburation had were done in-house. I know what I sold to a core supplier, R. N. Grillo and company, they were junk that wasn't repairable, yet rebuilders would pay money for them.

Best story, Vince Grillo told me on one trip he would pay $10 per core for Chrysler Holleys, I went around to all the dealerships we sold to and bought up the Holley 4 barrels at $4 each ($1 per hole). He came on his next trip and I had him leave extra 55 gal barrels the previous time, 6 barrels of Chrysler Holley 4 barrels. He asked if he could just pick one at random, count them and multiply it by 6. I told him that was fine. He was peeling off $100s like they were $1s. Next trip he had some choice words, he ended up stuck with most of them. I told he asked for them, I just obliged.

Bill - As you know, but for the others, a Chrysler Holley was my first ever Holley. And I developed an intense dislike for them right then and there.

I grew up on Carters, WCFB's & AFB's, and then learned about Rochesters - 2GC's and Q-Jets. Good, solid carbs. But the @#$%^&*( Holley on my brand new 1969 Super Bee was junk from Day 1. Forgetting that it was jetted way too lean, which was due to Chrysler trying to meet emissions, the body itself was warped. There was no way to keep the gaskets from leaking, and if you didn't drive it frequently the bowls would leak dry and the gaskets would shrink, so you then had major leaks.

And due to the jetting it would frequently backfire through the carb and blow the power valve and/or the accelerator pump.

So I can understand why you could buy those things for $4/each. And obviously even that low price was too much as he was stuck with them. Even the head of Conoco's machine shop couldn't square mine up enough to keep it from leaking w/o getting into passages. As I said, it was JUNK!

And to add to that story, several years ago I was at Carlisle for the Chrysler Nationals. I took a pic of a survivor '69 Bee but the gentleman that owned it wasn't there at the time. Later I looked closely and realized there was an AVS peaking out from under that un-silenced air cleaner. But, given all else I knew about the car it should have had the same Holley as mine. I'd gotten his name and assumed that he lived w/in a couple hundred miles of Carlisle as he'd driven it there, so I called every person by that name until I found him.

My first question was "Do you have an AVS on the car?" He said he did and I asked if it hadn't come with a Holley. He said it did but that it was JUNK and he quickly replaced it with the AVS, which had been on there for years w/o any problems. But, in this case he'd kept the Holley in case someone silly enough wanted to put the car back stock. Maybe it is worth more than $4 now?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I have to say that this is a shame.

Not only for you, but for the two or three members of this forum who have been advised to purchase Autoline in the past (week?)

Hopefully your experience is the exception rather than the rule, but the proof is right there.

I was just commenting that things are made to a price and not for reliability.

I think it was in regard to ignition modules, but come on!

If there was ANY meaningful QC at the Autoline factory that carb would never have seen the light of day.

[Rembrant]

I'd say that overall Autoline reman parts are generally pretty decent, but I have zero experience with their carbs. However, I do see Autoline tags on old truck carbs all the time, so I know that they're busy if nothing else.

My one experience with them was a SBF distributor that I bought. It was certainly a usable part, but it looked really bad...the aluminum casting should have been scrapped, but had obviously be sand blasted and re-used. The screws that mount the vac advance canister on were stripped in the aluminum housing. I opted to not use it since I was building a "pretty" engine, so I scavenged some parts out of it and used them in my original distributor that I cleaned up.

One other comment is that I called them about the amount of advance in the distributor, and the response I got was that a DSII distributor is a DSII distributor, and I have a feeling that you might get some different calibrations with the same Autoline part number, for example.

I didn't really consider it a bad experience....but I wasn't overly happy with the part I received. Somebody else could install that distributor in an old pickup and run it without issue for a decade, ya know?

One can only imagine that garbage that gets sent back to them for cores.

On the flip side, I do know of lots of guys that are running Autoline reman carbs with great results.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - As you know, but for the others, a Chrysler Holley was my first ever Holley. And I developed an intense dislike for them right then and there.

I grew up on Carters, WCFB's & AFB's, and then learned about Rochesters - 2GC's and Q-Jets. Good, solid carbs. But the @#$%^&*( Holley on my brand new 1969 Super Bee was junk from Day 1. Forgetting that it was jetted way too lean, which was due to Chrysler trying to meet emissions, the body itself was warped. There was no way to keep the gaskets from leaking, and if you didn't drive it frequently the bowls would leak dry and the gaskets would shrink, so you then had major leaks.

And due to the jetting it would frequently backfire through the carb and blow the power valve and/or the accelerator pump.

So I can understand why you could buy those things for $4/each. And obviously even that low price was too much as he was stuck with them. Even the head of Conoco's machine shop couldn't square mine up enough to keep it from leaking w/o getting into passages. As I said, it was JUNK!

And to add to that story, several years ago I was at Carlisle for the Chrysler Nationals. I took a pic of a survivor '69 Bee but the gentleman that owned it wasn't there at the time. Later I looked closely and realized there was an AVS peaking out from under that un-silenced air cleaner. But, given all else I knew about the car it should have had the same Holley as mine. I'd gotten his name and assumed that he lived w/in a couple hundred miles of Carlisle as he'd driven it there, so I called every person by that name until I found him.

My first question was "Do you have an AVS on the car?" He said he did and I asked if it hadn't come with a Holley. He said it did but that it was JUNK and he quickly replaced it with the AVS, which had been on there for years w/o any problems. But, in this case he'd kept the Holley in case someone silly enough wanted to put the car back stock. Maybe it is worth more than $4 now?

Gary, Holley and Chrysler released a modification kit for the secondary metering body. It reversed the gasket sequence and the instructions specified checked the metering body for warpage and to replace it with an updated design.

The original Holley 4160 series had a roughly rectangular metering body on the secondary side in lieu of the metering block the 4150 series used. These were attached to the main body with 6 screws (countersunk flat head that had a clutch head drive to install or remove them. This was a cost saving design and also a space saving as it cut roughly 1/2" off the secondary side allowing for the dual Holleys Ford used on the 427 engines. The original design had two corners at the outer ends of the bottom and when the gasket stackup (cork main gasket, thin steel separator plate, rubberized paper gasket and metering body) the zinc alloy body casting could warp from heat and the lower corners pull away from the gaskets. Since the outer lower corners contained the idle passages, a warped metering body opened the idle passages in the main body directly into the float bowl.

The update included (if needed) a redesigned metering body with the unsupported corners eliminated and a new gasket stackup sequence, it was now a full coverage rubberized paper gasket, a full coverage steel plate and finally the cork (later composition) bowl gasket. This effectively cured the problem with secondary metering system (side note: works on the 4180 Ford used).

The other issue with the Chrysler Holleys was Chrysler's decision to use engine modifications rather than air pumps. The primary idle and transition circuits were unique to the Chrysler carbs and required a special primary metering block and gasket. If a normal Holley gasket was used in error the transition circuits were blocked and you had a huge dead area as the throttles were opened. The other cute issue, in order to meet the anti-tamper requirement, Holley changed the idle mixture screws to air bleed screws making them work backwards so the mixture could only be made so rich, not rich enough to fail testing. The final piece of the problem was ignition timing. The engineers found that retarding the timing allowed for a leaner idle mixture so Chrysler went from having initial timing around 12.5° BTDC static, to 2.5° BTDC static and even some at 2.5° to 5° ATDC on some engines with a propensity to backfire through the carburetor on sudden throttle openings and frequently on hot restarts. The "Highland Park Hummingbird", Chrysler's gear reduction starter, didn't help matters either. You could walk out of a shopping center or large store and hear a Chrysler product's classic "ying, ying, ying, boom, roar" nearly every day.

 

[1986F150Six]

I have to say that this is a shame.

Not only for you, but for the two or three members of this forum who have been advised to purchase Autoline in the past (week?)

Hopefully your experience is the exception rather than the rule, but the proof is right there.

I was just commenting that things are made to a price and not for reliability.

I think it was in regard to ignition modules, but come on!

If there was ANY meaningful QC at the Autoline factory that carb would never have seen the light of day.

I am sorry to hear of the poor quality for the rebuilt carburetor.

I, on the other hand, am one who has praised Autoline's carburetor rebuilding. The one I purchased through RockAuto, many years ago [7+?], was spot on from the time it was installed until the present. It has performed well and has never had to be worked on rather than the occasionally required seasonal adjustment of idle speed.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, Holley and Chrysler released a modification kit for the secondary metering body. It reversed the gasket sequence and the instructions specified checked the metering body for warpage and to replace it with an updated design.

The original Holley 4160 series had a roughly rectangular metering body on the secondary side in lieu of the metering block the 4150 series used. These were attached to the main body with 6 screws (countersunk flat head that had a clutch head drive to install or remove them. This was a cost saving design and also a space saving as it cut roughly 1/2" off the secondary side allowing for the dual Holleys Ford used on the 427 engines. The original design had two corners at the outer ends of the bottom and when the gasket stackup (cork main gasket, thin steel separator plate, rubberized paper gasket and metering body) the zinc alloy body casting could warp from heat and the lower corners pull away from the gaskets. Since the outer lower corners contained the idle passages, a warped metering body opened the idle passages in the main body directly into the float bowl.

The update included (if needed) a redesigned metering body with the unsupported corners eliminated and a new gasket stackup sequence, it was now a full coverage rubberized paper gasket, a full coverage steel plate and finally the cork (later composition) bowl gasket. This effectively cured the problem with secondary metering system (side note: works on the 4180 Ford used).

The other issue with the Chrysler Holleys was Chrysler's decision to use engine modifications rather than air pumps. The primary idle and transition circuits were unique to the Chrysler carbs and required a special primary metering block and gasket. If a normal Holley gasket was used in error the transition circuits were blocked and you had a huge dead area as the throttles were opened. The other cute issue, in order to meet the anti-tamper requirement, Holley changed the idle mixture screws to air bleed screws making them work backwards so the mixture could only be made so rich, not rich enough to fail testing. The final piece of the problem was ignition timing. The engineers found that retarding the timing allowed for a leaner idle mixture so Chrysler went from having initial timing around 12.5° BTDC static, to 2.5° BTDC static and even some at 2.5° to 5° ATDC on some engines with a propensity to backfire through the carburetor on sudden throttle openings and frequently on hot restarts. The "Highland Park Hummingbird", Chrysler's gear reduction starter, didn't help matters either. You could walk out of a shopping center or large store and hear a Chrysler product's classic "ying, ying, ying, boom, roar" nearly every day.

On the Autoline issue, it appears that they put out some ok stuff and some that is, obviously, bad. Apparently they just rebuild whatever comes in, so if a bad core comes in they may use it. So buying one of their products is a crap shoot. But I still think they should be aware of this thread and the very negative impression that carb has left on many of us.

On the Chrysler/Holley thing, thanks for the info, Bill. I experienced all of what you outlined, and then some. As I'm sure you can imagine, that experience has warped me - pun intended.

However, at the time I didn't lean on the dealers for repair. I had no idea that there was a kit for fixing that piece of junk. As said, it was my first Holley and I assumed they were all like that. And given that, I've done my best to stay far, far away from their carbs since then.

I see a very good parallel between Troy's experience with Autoline and my experience with Holley. A customer's view of a vendor is very easily soured by selling them junk. And the vendor may never get an opportunity to correct that view as the customer may never darken their door again. In addition, the customer will tell others about that vendor's horrible products - for decades to come.

Given my experience I won't buy a Holley carb, and given Troy's experience I won't buy anything from Autoline.

[Gary Lewis]

On the Autoline issue, it appears that they put out some ok stuff and some that is, obviously, bad. Apparently they just rebuild whatever comes in, so if a bad core comes in they may use it. So buying one of their products is a crap shoot. But I still think they should be aware of this thread and the very negative impression that carb has left on many of us.

On the Chrysler/Holley thing, thanks for the info, Bill. I experienced all of what you outlined, and then some. As I'm sure you can imagine, that experience has warped me - pun intended.

However, at the time I didn't lean on the dealers for repair. I had no idea that there was a kit for fixing that piece of junk. As said, it was my first Holley and I assumed they were all like that. And given that, I've done my best to stay far, far away from their carbs since then.

I see a very good parallel between Troy's experience with Autoline and my experience with Holley. A customer's view of a vendor is very easily soured by selling them junk. And the vendor may never get an opportunity to correct that view as the customer may never darken their door again. In addition, the customer will tell others about that vendor's horrible products - for decades to come.

Given my experience I won't buy a Holley carb, and given Troy's experience I won't buy anything from Autoline.