Cab upgrades

[ArdWrknTrk]

Genuinely interested in the responses you get on this Jim. I am no audiophile but enjoy the theory and discussion of this stuff.

Did some research and talking to some local audio shops (getting to be fewer and fewer around here) when planning out my truck.

What I pieced together was having them close but the amp being a little more was good. This avoids clipping but you do run the risk of blowing the speakers if you 'turn it to 11'.

For instance my speakers are 100RMS and my amp is 125RMS per bridged channel. Each speaker is on its own channel from the amp.

I very well might turn it to 11!

Not just for Spinal Tap, but Zepplins Black Dog, and Motorhead and... NEED to be loud.

(I wonder how I blew the Polk's to shreds? 😉)

 

[kramttocs]

I very well might turn it to 11!

Not just for Spinal Tap, but Zepplins Black Dog, and Motorhead and... NEED to be loud.

(I wonder how I blew the Polk's to shreds? 😉)

 

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, a question for you audiophiles..

My head unit is 'rated' 45W RMS & 100W max, x 4 channels.

Since it looks like I'm getting new speakers, should I be looking for a pair closest to this without going under, or is more okay (say 75 RMS & 150-200 max?)

I'd think I want speakers matched to output, so I don't fall short driving them.

But I admit my ignorance and am looking for seasoned advice without turning to the cesspool of the internet.

I'm sure I could call Crutchfield, give them my order number and ask for rear channel speakers, but I don't want to waste their time asking them to explain it to me.

(And I do want to see the logic behind it)

TIA

Bad news on the sway bar bits. But it looks like you solved the problem.

And I see what you did on the seat release.

As for the speakers, I'm no longer an audiophile, but there are at least two ratings that need consideration. One is the max power one that you mentioned, and another is speaker sensitivity. This article does a decent job of explaining that.

To say it another way, a massive resistor would be able to safely handle a large amp, but as you couldn't hear anything it wouldn't be very useful. Instead you are looking for a speaker that is good at turning power into sound. And the better a speaker is at doing that the lower its power rating needs to be.

Also you need to consider the frequency range. But you have a woofer and a sub-woofer, so you don't need to go too low. And if you are talking rear speakers you don't really need a lot of highs. But you want an even frequency response from something like 100 to 10 Khz.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bad news on the sway bar bits. But it looks like you solved the problem.

And I see what you did on the seat release.

As for the speakers, I'm no longer an audiophile, but there are at least two ratings that need consideration. One is the max power one that you mentioned, and another is speaker sensitivity. This article does a decent job of explaining that.

To say it another way, a massive resistor would be able to safely handle a large amp, but as you couldn't hear anything it wouldn't be very useful. Instead you are looking for a speaker that is good at turning power into sound. And the better a speaker is at doing that the lower its power rating needs to be.

Also you need to consider the frequency range. But you have a woofer and a sub-woofer, so you don't need to go too low. And if you are talking rear speakers you don't really need a lot of highs. But you want an even frequency response from something like 100 to 10 Khz.

Nope, I only have the cute little "Sub" sub.

That's why I was looking at mid's for the speaker box.

I think the 6 1/2" door speakers will be fine for vocal frequencies and such, but I'm pretty sure I want 'fill' on the rear channels.

Thanks for the link!

I'll check it out next.

Still open to opinions and advice...

[ArdWrknTrk]

Nope, I only have the cute little "Sub" sub.

That's why I was looking at mid's for the speaker box.

I think the 6 1/2" door speakers will be fine for vocal frequencies and such, but I'm pretty sure I want 'fill' on the rear channels.

Thanks for the link!

I'll check it out next.

Still open to opinions and advice...

Well, that was an informative read, but I'm obviously not looking for "The Loudest Speakers"

Maybe I'm looking to get the most from my speakers, given I don't need to be deafend

(my tinnitus is bad enough from all the firearms, explosions, rockets and racing)

And with that, I think I have a better idea of sensitivity.

So I need to go back to my list, redefine my frequency range and winnow out a shortlist.

I also need to look at more mid's, although my head unit allows me to EQ each pair of channels separately,

Is there anything inexpensive modern electronics can't do???

I'm sure I'd be much better off playing to a speakers strong suit rather than hobbling it trying to bend it to my whims.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, that was an informative read, but I'm obviously not looking for "The Loudest Speakers"

Maybe I'm looking to get the most from my speakers, given I don't need to be deafend

(my tinnitus is bad enough from all the firearms, explosions, rockets and racing)

And with that, I think I have a better idea of sensitivity.

So I need to go back to my list, redefine my frequency range and winnow out a shortlist.

I also need to look at more mid's, although my head unit allows me to EQ each pair of channels separately,

Is there anything inexpensive modern electronics can't do???

I'm sure I'd be much better off playing to a speakers strong suit rather than hobbling it trying to bend it to my whims.

And, there's this from Retro: https://www.retromanufacturing.com/blogs/news/watts-rms-vs-peak-max

[ArdWrknTrk]

And, there's this from Retro: https://www.retromanufacturing.com/blogs/news/watts-rms-vs-peak-max

I'm having a hard time accepting this "watts RMS" thing.

I understand RMS wrt AC voltage.

It's simply the average area under the sinusoidal wave, or the peak divided by 1.4142.

But watts is a measure of work, or energy consumed.

And that obviously varies greatly when we're talking about an analog audio waveform.

I can possibly see it as a measure of potential continuous power delivered by a device like an amplifier.

But wrt speakers, is it what they can absorb endlessly without killing the coil?

Is it what is their 'optimal' input?

I still can't seem to find a coherent answer, and how this applies to what my head unit has to deliver.

I need to do some more digging, as I'm easily confused (when I already have a solid understanding of the term buried in my mind)

But this is not that...

 

[Gary Lewis]

I'm having a hard time accepting this "watts RMS" thing.

I understand RMS wrt AC voltage.

It's simply the average area under the sinusoidal wave, or the peak divided by 1.4142.

But watts is a measure of work, or energy consumed.

And that obviously varies greatly when we're talking about an analog audio waveform.

I can possibly see it as a measure of potential continuous power delivered by a device like an amplifier.

But wrt speakers, is it what they can absorb endlessly without killing the coil?

Is it what is their 'optimal' input?

I still can't seem to find a coherent answer, and how this applies to what my head unit has to deliver.

I need to do some more digging, as I'm easily confused (when I already have a solid understanding of the term buried in my mind)

But this is not that...

I don't have my head around it either. But one thing that hasn't been said, and which I think is true, is that the ratio between RMS and peak depends on the shape of the waveform. If all music was nice pure sine waves the square root of 2 would apply. But when you get into multi-instrument sound you have percussion laid on top of guitar, which is on top of voice, and nothing is a pure sine wave.

So, how do they measure amps and speakers? Is it with a nice sine wave? I'm guessing so as that's the only "constant" out there. If so, does everyone use the same frequency?

On what hurts a speaker, I think there are several things. First, I think they are limited to the maximum excursion they can handle on an ongoing basis. And that's probably a function of what surround they are using. Another is how much heat the voice coil can take. And then there's deformation of the cone, which would ultimately cause it to fail.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't have my head around it either. But one thing that hasn't been said, and which I think is true, is that the ratio between RMS and peak depends on the shape of the waveform. If all music was nice pure sine waves the square root of 2 would apply. But when you get into multi-instrument sound you have percussion laid on top of guitar, which is on top of voice, and nothing is a pure sine wave.

So, how do they measure amps and speakers? Is it with a nice sine wave? I'm guessing so as that's the only "constant" out there. If so, does everyone use the same frequency?

On what hurts a speaker, I think there are several things. First, I think they are limited to the maximum excursion they can handle on an ongoing basis. And that's probably a function of what surround they are using. Another is how much heat the voice coil can take. And then there's deformation of the cone, which would ultimately cause it to fail.

This I get.

I understand the power correction factor of RMS voltage, but like George said, speakers are a constantly changing ohm.

I also understand the limits of materials, and how amplitude affects the coil and diaphragm.

We know what happens to an automotive coil if too much current is applied, or for too long (dwell)

We can also analogize throw with what happens to wires when too much potential (voltage) is applied.

The insulation is not enough to contain the charge (or 'throw')

But Root Means Squared with regards to what a speaker is rated???

I'm lost.....

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

This I get.

I understand the power correction factor of RMS voltage, but like George said, speakers are a constantly changing ohm.

I also understand the limits of materials, and how amplitude affects the coil and diaphragm.

We know what happens to an automotive coil if too much current is applied, or for too long (dwell)

We can also analogize throw with what happens to wires when too much potential (voltage) is applied.

The insulation is not enough to contain the charge (or 'throw')

But Root Means Squared with regards to what a speaker is rated???

I'm lost.....

Okay

I'm waiting until 10 to get out my impact and reinstall the sway bar.

But it's SO humid the gloss paint is flashing.

I'm also dropping my spare tire so I can rehab the support and use it to pull some shrub stumps.

I appreciate the conversation about audio.

Like I said, 'i know NOTHING!' (Shultz)

If this were radio, microwave or optical frequencies I'd be much better versed.