Best alternator option?

[kramttocs]

Yep and I understand the whole its only going to produce what is needed. But being as I have seen some really screwed up things with cars working on them I tend to gravitate towards worse case situation and try to plan for it.

Sure an alternator will not produce more than is needed. But if the regulator fails the alternator could go full field and put out max output. That is what the fuse is for, its to protect your electrical system in the case of a major failure of the alternator. Well if the thing fails and goes full field I am picturing belt slipping possibly being thrown off, fuse never blowing cause the recommended fuse for a 130A alternator is 175A. Then throw in the alternator belt is situated behind my dealer A/C belt I can see it throwing other belts which could be quite bad going down the highway doing 75 mph and have multiple belts get thrown due to the alternator belt throwing.

That is where my line of thought comes into and how can I prevent something like that in the off chance it did happen.

But I never heard the 150A rule before, I have seen on the forums 90A to 100A as being the stated by people as the limit. Seeing the 150A setting then that puts my mind more at ease as I can just go with the 130A alternator and instead of running a 175A fuse just run a 140/145A fuse in its place. Only way it would ever reach 130A is if the alternator actually failed cause even in a heavily depleted battery I dont think the alternator would shoot up to 130A to try and charge the battery up. Now I know you can burn an alternator up if you jumpstart a dead battery and have the alternator try and charge it. But I dont think an alternator would put out full field amperage with a heavily depleted battery, it should put out just enough amperage to power the systems and slightly more to charge the battery.

Thats why I think it is set in stone now I will be running the 130A large case and just swap out for the soft start regulators I have on watch on ebay and let it right. I just need to do the math at a later date to check alternator speed since my engine will be capable of turning 5,500 - 6,000 rpm and I wouldnt want to over rev the alternator. Ill be buying a new pulley anyways for my 3G since I want a single sheave since I wont be running a air pump.

I don't think anyone will fault you for being cautious.

I kept coming across that 90-100 limit when I was doing the research a year and a half ago also but all the manufacturers I spoke to stated higher (while some didn't give an exact number). I won't say that in some cases, possibly due to belt or pulley condition, that lower limit isn't a good reference. I can only go off what I was told - no personal experience as my other trucks and Mustang are still running 1g's and are pretty bare bones in the electronic department.

Dropping the fuse down sounds like a great fail-safe to me. In fact I should do that as well since I have a 175 in mine also.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Just been following along (interesting read) but since you brought it up the 150 rule is what I based my decision on. I am running a 150 amp alternator with a single vbelt and haven't had any noise or slippage.

Powermaster told me 150 was perfectly fine with a single v and I figured they should know.

All because as Jim said - it's how much is asked of it.

If anything ever changes, will cross that bridge and worry about it at that time.

Scott,

The alternator I bought, pictured the label above, sent the chart to Gary, that he has posted elsewhere, comes with an LRC regulator installed.

It is RATED at 130A, and TESTED showing ~160A output.

The printout is right there in black and white.

I've never heard of this "150A rule", but we all know that there are dozens of different V-belts.

(I think Gates has 5 lines???)

I'm going off Ryan's old posts and videos showing a properly tensioned belt will start to slip above 100A load.

You could watch him dial up the sink, and watch the output rise, to where the belt was starting to have traction problems.

He was selling product.

He stood behind that product.

And he wasn't trying to get people to destroy their alternator or water pump bearings.

This!

I see it with my own eyes, and practice what I preach.

I'm comfortable and confident with what I use every day.

I don't wake up in a sweat worrying about the boogie man under the bed.

I don't publicly post about I've never had the balls to even put into practice.

And, I'm not Powermaster, trying to hype some product I'm pushing on a naive public.

(I hope you do speak with Gary, because he will speak truth, and detail why he doesn't want it in his truck)

Do it.

Don't do it.

I don't care.

I'm already there, and have been for years.

Do I use every bit of my alternator?

No. I don't have a 3000w stereo, inverter or winch.

If I did, I'd gear drive an alternator off my PTO only when needed.

But I do like the fact that my battery is charging while I'm sitting at a light or waiting for my coffees in the drive-up line.

Just like a dyno run where there's not enough tyre to put the power to the rollers.

Would you cinch down the straps until there's 3 ton on the car?

HTH could you do that in practice?

Really interested to see what Angelo, Gary and the new 750Hp supercharged Raptor do with all that power.

Truth is, just like the LRC regulator, you apply it slowly, and if you have half a brain you back off before it kills your truck (or you)

The reality is that even 500 horse in a pickup is NOT getting to the ground without traction control.

BTDT too.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Scott,

The alternator I bought, pictured the label above, sent the chart to Gary, that he has posted elsewhere, comes with an LRC regulator installed.

It is RATED at 130A, and TESTED showing ~160A output.

The printout is right there in black and white.

I've never heard of this "150A rule", but we all know that there are dozens of different V-belts.

(I think Gates has 5 lines???)

I'm going off Ryan's old posts and videos showing a properly tensioned belt will start to slip above 100A load.

You could watch him dial up the sink, and watch the output rise, to where the belt was starting to have traction problems.

He was selling product.

He stood behind that product.

And he wasn't trying to get people to destroy their alternator or water pump bearings.

This!

I see it with my own eyes, and practice what I preach.

I'm comfortable and confident with what I use every day.

I don't wake up in a sweat worrying about the boogie man under the bed.

I don't publicly post about I've never had the balls to even put into practice.

And, I'm not Powermaster, trying to hype some product I'm pushing on a naive public.

(I hope you do speak with Gary, because he will speak truth, and detail why he doesn't want it in his truck)

Do it.

Don't do it.

I don't care.

I'm already there, and have been for years.

Do I use every bit of my alternator?

No. I don't have a 3000w stereo, inverter or winch.

If I did, I'd gear drive an alternator off my PTO only when needed.

But I do like the fact that my battery is charging while I'm sitting at a light or waiting for my coffees in the drive-up line.

Just like a dyno run where there's not enough tyre to put the power to the rollers.

Would you cinch down the straps until there's 3 ton on the car?

HTH could you do that in practice?

Really interested to see what Angelo, Gary and the new 750Hp supercharged Raptor do with all that power.

Truth is, just like the LRC regulator, you apply it slowly, and if you have half a brain you back off before it kills your truck (or you)

The reality is that even 500 horse in a pickup is NOT getting to the ground without traction control.

BTDT too.

Like Scott I've been following along. And like Jim I'd read what Ryan wrote about ~90 amps being the max from a v-belt and hadn't seen the 150 amp guideline.

But the key, like Rusty said, is belt wrap. As I think about it, w/o stating how much wrap there is you can't state how much power the belt will transfer. In fact, you would probably have to state what size belt awa the wrap.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Like Scott I've been following along. And like Jim I'd read what Ryan wrote about ~90 amps being the max from a v-belt and hadn't seen the 150 amp guideline.

But the key, like Rusty said, is belt wrap. As I think about it, w/o stating how much wrap there is you can't state how much power the belt will transfer. In fact, you would probably have to state what size belt awa the wrap.

Belt wrap only determines how much contact there is.

The belt is RATED by how much power it can transmit.

You could have two square feet of contact, and if the belt is only rated for two hp it is going to fail if you try to drive 10.

And then the mu of both the sheaves, and that of the belt (which belt, what composition, how old is it, etc, ad infinitum)

And that's exactly my point.

You can dicker about this, that, anything and everything.

Go out and DO it.

Actual FACTS about real world use.

Not some lab

Not whatever scenario you can dream up from bits of data gleaned from the truth or fiction of the internet,

Then pieced together to support your bias.

DO IT.

Decide if it works for you, in YOUR situation.

Come back and report what you find.

We can compare notes....

When I don't know WTH in talking about, I come out and say "this is my opinion, but I have never done X"

Then I shut up and listen to what people who HAVE done X, have to say.

I can learn this way.

And I learn what to expect or look out for if I decide to try X myself.

But I still DKS about X until I do.

[kramttocs]

Belt wrap only determines how much contact there is.

The belt is RATED by how much power it can transmit.

You could have two square feet of contact, and if the belt is only rated for two hp it is going to fail if you try to drive 10.

And then the mu of both the sheaves, and that of the belt (which belt, what composition, how old is it, etc, ad infinitum)

And that's exactly my point.

You can dicker about this, that, anything and everything.

Go out and DO it.

Actual FACTS about real world use.

Not some lab

Not whatever scenario you can dream up from bits of data gleaned from the truth or fiction of the internet,

Then pieced together to support your bias.

DO IT.

Decide if it works for you, in YOUR situation.

Come back and report what you find.

We can compare notes....

When I don't know WTH in talking about, I come out and say "this is my opinion, but I have never done X"

Then I shut up and listen to what people who HAVE done X, have to say.

I can learn this way.

And I learn what to expect or look out for if I decide to try X myself.

But I still DKS about X until I do.

Jim-

I don't really have a horse in this race. I typically stick with a stock, off the shelf setup. I was just doing exactly this:

Decide if it works for you, in YOUR situation.

Come back and report what you find.

We can compare notes....

I wouldn't have said anything except that Rusty brought up the 150A threshold which as mentioned is what I kept finding outside of forums. And so far the setup is working for me.

I don't think I've seen Ryan's test but I am not questioning them, in the same way I am not questioning Gary's powermaster experience. Is it my experience? No. Will it be my experience the next time I fire up the truck? Maybe, who knows.

I am not trying to peddle Powermaster or get their name tattooed in a heart on my arm but since you brought it up and seem to have a negative opinion of them I wouldn't mind getting more details on it.

If I recall correctly the one on BB had a bad bearing when Gary got it.

Gary is there more to it that I don't know? I wouldn't think an alternator with a bad bearing is enough to swear them off.

Maybe we should add them to the Vendor ratings thread?

 

[Gary Lewis]

Jim-

I don't really have a horse in this race. I typically stick with a stock, off the shelf setup. I was just doing exactly this:

Decide if it works for you, in YOUR situation.

Come back and report what you find.

We can compare notes....

I wouldn't have said anything except that Rusty brought up the 150A threshold which as mentioned is what I kept finding outside of forums. And so far the setup is working for me.

I don't think I've seen Ryan's test but I am not questioning them, in the same way I am not questioning Gary's powermaster experience. Is it my experience? No. Will it be my experience the next time I fire up the truck? Maybe, who knows.

I am not trying to peddle Powermaster or get their name tattooed in a heart on my arm but since you brought it up and seem to have a negative opinion of them I wouldn't mind getting more details on it.

If I recall correctly the one on BB had a bad bearing when Gary got it.

Gary is there more to it that I don't know? I wouldn't think an alternator with a bad bearing is enough to swear them off.

Maybe we should add them to the Vendor ratings thread?

I don't remember what all was wrong with the Powermaster alternator on Big Blue. A bearing certainly, but I'm thinking there was something else. So I called them to get the parts and they said "We don't sell parts, you have to send it back in."

At that point I put it in the box as I'm not going to run something that I can't replace in the field.

So, am I "off" Powermaster? Alternators yes. Starters no. Why? Because the alternator isn't wired in a way that I could easily get a replacement. But the starters are. Any PMGR starter will replace it.

So I'll run a 3G and know I can get a replacement anywhere.

[Rusty_S85]

Belt wrap only determines how much contact there is.

The belt is RATED by how much power it can transmit.

You could have two square feet of contact, and if the belt is only rated for two hp it is going to fail if you try to drive 10.

And then the mu of both the sheaves, and that of the belt (which belt, what composition, how old is it, etc, ad infinitum)

And that's exactly my point.

You can dicker about this, that, anything and everything.

Go out and DO it.

Actual FACTS about real world use.

Not some lab

Not whatever scenario you can dream up from bits of data gleaned from the truth or fiction of the internet,

Then pieced together to support your bias.

DO IT.

Decide if it works for you, in YOUR situation.

Come back and report what you find.

We can compare notes....

When I don't know WTH in talking about, I come out and say "this is my opinion, but I have never done X"

Then I shut up and listen to what people who HAVE done X, have to say.

I can learn this way.

And I learn what to expect or look out for if I decide to try X myself.

But I still DKS about X until I do.

Just about every V belt I see today have knobs cut in the back side, this was done for better grip. Goodyear Gatorback is the one that comes to mind, those belts would grab and not let go compared to other belts. Problem is the gatorback V belt is very hard to find now a days for most applications.

This used to be the go to belt we used at work when we had V belts that just wouldnt stop squealing when tensioned to specifications. Now we are forced to overload the tension of the belt where you can walk on it just to stop the slippage cause the gatorback belts are hard to find today. I tried to get one for my truck for my AC as my dealer setup I think has a little slip as the belt vibrates like crazy making a rattling rumbling noise.

As far as the new stuff they have out now that I have not given a try to this is what is the specifications of the newer V belts but I may give one of them a try considering I am going to try and stop belt vibration on my AC as its annoying.

-Narrow Wedge V Belt

"Effectively handling drives from 1 to 1,000 hp, these belts

rank high in horsepower-hours per dollar, the ultimate measure of drive valve. The narrow-belt cross sections (3V, 5V, and

8V), offer higher power capacity for any sheave size and

weight.

The narrow or “wedge” design provides more tensile member

support than classical V-belts. Narrow belts handle an equivalent load, but with narrower face width and smaller diameters than the traditional classical V-belts. These features allow

the use of smaller belts or fewer belts to transmit the load, an

important advantage if your goal is to maximize power transmission efficiency by reducing drive weight and size."

-Classic V Belt

"The most widely used V-belts are A, B, C, and D classical

belts. Used more out of habit and convenience than design,

these belts can handle fractional to 500-hp drives, usually

at the lowest cost. However, they occupy more space, and

the drives weigh more than narrow-belt drives. Also, classical

belts are usually less efficient than narrow belts. But their

versatility and wide range of sizes and types make them an

attractive alternative to wedge belts.

Many classical belts are used for replacement because it is considered too costly to replace sheaves when upgrading from

classical to narrow or other belt types. Therefore, when replacing classical sheaves, it is an opportune time to upgrade to narrow or other belt types"

Not sure which one I would end up going with, its something I would have to look up the specs of the belt for our trucks and then find the same specs dimension wise on Goodyear`s site. When I looked them up before on rockauto for instance, there is no goodyear belt listing for my truck for any belt. I didnt try summit but I suspect its one of those things where there wont be a specified listing and youll have to find the size through either trial and error or looking up the parts.

But the belt does determine how much grip there is. belt wrap also plays into it cause with more wrap the more contact area you have it can make belts grip better than if they were only making a fraction of the wrap.

Like powersteering, GM setups from the 70`s and early 80`s had two belts running the powersteering pump but the belt wrap was between 80* and 100* compared to our trucks that have a 180* belt wrap of the alternator. Difference is powersteering pumps dont really need lots of belt traction unless you are locking it out. Alternators are different as they vary the load. But I know we used to have great luck with the gatorback v belts on grip just not avaliable anymore from Goodyear`s website as I guess they have been replaced.

[kramttocs]

I don't remember what all was wrong with the Powermaster alternator on Big Blue. A bearing certainly, but I'm thinking there was something else. So I called them to get the parts and they said "We don't sell parts, you have to send it back in."

At that point I put it in the box as I'm not going to run something that I can't replace in the field.

So, am I "off" Powermaster? Alternators yes. Starters no. Why? Because the alternator isn't wired in a way that I could easily get a replacement. But the starters are. Any PMGR starter will replace it.

So I'll run a 3G and know I can get a replacement anywhere.

Thanks Gary!

So, am I "off" Powermaster? Alternators yes. Starters no. Why? Because the alternator isn't wired in a way that I could easily get a replacement. But the starters are. Any PMGR starter will replace it.

So I'll run a 3G and know I can get a replacement anywhere.

This I completely get and it's more of a configuration avoidance than a vendor. Smart and something everyone should at least be aware of when making changes. While I like the 1 wire I have - it's no secret the 1 wire has it's cons - l only went that way since I found it NIB really cheap locally. I also purposely kept the intact 2G harness that I can take on long trips and swap into C610 in an emergency.

 

[Rusty_S85]

I don't remember what all was wrong with the Powermaster alternator on Big Blue. A bearing certainly, but I'm thinking there was something else. So I called them to get the parts and they said "We don't sell parts, you have to send it back in."

At that point I put it in the box as I'm not going to run something that I can't replace in the field.

So, am I "off" Powermaster? Alternators yes. Starters no. Why? Because the alternator isn't wired in a way that I could easily get a replacement. But the starters are. Any PMGR starter will replace it.

So I'll run a 3G and know I can get a replacement anywhere.

I dont like powermaster either for the simple fact that they offer those generator look alike alternators but yet at the time they were one wire alternators. Now they have them where they have a generator light hook up but still they do not utilize the OE external regulator for people that want to upgrade to an alternator but maintain the OE look for older cars.

There would be a huge market for something like that where you can unbolt your generator bolt the new generator look alike alternator in its place then hook up your OE wires and you are done. No cutting wires out, no modifying the regulator to be a rewiring junction point.

As far as PMGR starters goes, I found some good pricing on those starters off rockauto. I wouldnt go to powermaster for theirs when I can get the same PMGR starter style from else where for less money.

[kramttocs]

I dont like powermaster either for the simple fact that they offer those generator look alike alternators but yet at the time they were one wire alternators. Now they have them where they have a generator light hook up but still they do not utilize the OE external regulator for people that want to upgrade to an alternator but maintain the OE look for older cars.

There would be a huge market for something like that where you can unbolt your generator bolt the new generator look alike alternator in its place then hook up your OE wires and you are done. No cutting wires out, no modifying the regulator to be a rewiring junction point.

As far as PMGR starters goes, I found some good pricing on those starters off rockauto. I wouldnt go to powermaster for theirs when I can get the same PMGR starter style from else where for less money.

Haha now I know it will sound like I am defending Powermaster

To be fair though disliking a vendor because they don't provide a product you are looking for is entirely different than disliking them because they offer substandard products, have terrible customer service, or have less than honest intentions.

I dont like powermaster either for the simple fact that they offer those generator look alike alternators but yet at the time they were one wire alternators. Now they have them where they have a generator light hook up but still they do not utilize the OE external regulator for people that want to upgrade to an alternator but maintain the OE look for older cars.

I'd reach out to them if you think there would be demand for such an animal. The tech guys I've talked to have been really helpful.

Sorry, my fault for derailing the thread.