1983 F150 5.8L 351W 4x4 Project

[Gary Lewis]

No worries Gary!

Thank you guys! I appreciate all of the digging and vetting. Given all of the good advice and perspective, I'm going to continue to take things apart and document. I know at some juncture, I'll need to make a decision regarding which path to take regarding the carb & ignition system (I am still searching for a 2100 with a 1.21" venturi opening). In the meantime, I am learning a lot!

Yesterday, took my truck out for a ten mile test run, this is without the air pump and its associated vacuum hoses and soleniod valves. It seemed to run fine.

Going to tackle the EGR today. I'll post some photos showing my progress. Again, can't thank you all enough!

Best Regards,

Tom

If you think it "runs fine" now, just wait until you take the EEC-III system out of the equation. I think we mentioned it, but right now it has its knickers in a twist due to the many things you've removed, and it has the ignition advance locked out.

I once bought an '82 F150 that sat on a car lot for years as it ran really poorly. Turned out that someone had removed the feedback carb and threw it away, literally, installing instead a non-feedback 2150. The ECU had the timing locked to base and it was a DOG!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I once bought an '82 F150 that sat on a car lot for years as it ran really poorly. Turned out that someone had removed the feedback carb and threw it away, literally, installing instead a non-feedback 2150. The ECU had the timing locked to base and it was a DOG!

And you could have fixed that in an hour with a $50 HEI and a $6 relay.

(Just sayin)

 

[LARIAT 85]

As for the choke, you can swap a choke housing from any 2100 or 2150 onto any other. In fact, I think you can put a Holley choke housing on. So finding an electric choke should not be a problem.

If you use a Motorcraft housing you only need the one connector.

While you can swap in a Holley choke heater, you won't have the proper wiring to make it a drop-in application.

Like I've tried to impress multiple times before: Throw the calibration codes out the window. The pump is gone, the cat is going, the coil is going, the distributor and it's curve is going (one way or the other) and the carb is going too.

Fonzie can lecture about "Ford correctness" but the fact is that we are having a discussion about violating federal law and once any part of that calibration is borked (down to the required spark plugs) you may as well throw that book out the window and write your own based on past experience and best practices.

What is the advantage of replacing a thermostatic choke that uses actual engine temperature to adjust the choke with a [fully] electric choke that relies on a timer? I don't see any.

My recommendations have less to do with "Ford correctness" and more to do with making things easier on yourself by getting matched parts that were calibrated to work together for their intended application.

Most of us accept the fact that EFI is a complete system of parts with the ability to self-tune. Well, the Ford engineers tuned their engines by calibrating and tuning the stock parts for each application to make everything work together for the best driving experience. If you throw that book out of the window, you are left to completely re-engineer your vehicle. The vast majority of us simply aren't smart enough to do that (or we don't want to take the time to do it) and that is why so many carbureted engines now run like crap. To me, it seems irresponsible to recommend parts to an admitted novice that require extensive tuning and/or recalibration to get their basically stock engine running good again.

Unfortunately, it is not as easy as simply swapping jets and adjusting the idle mixture screws. For example, if you get an Autolite 2100 that was calibrated for a 351 Cleveland and put on your 351 Windsor, no amount of tuning will ever make it run correctly. To start with, the internal passages are completely different because these two engines flow completely different. Then, the boosters are designed specifically for that carburetor and that specific application, along with jets and valves. That is why aftermarket carburetors have MANY more adjustments than stock ones - they are universal carburetors that are designed to work on *any* engine. Therefore, they take a LOT more time to get them dialed in right.

 

[Tom]

I once bought an '82 F150 that sat on a car lot for years as it ran really poorly. Turned out that someone had removed the feedback carb and threw it away, literally, installing instead a non-feedback 2150. The ECU had the timing locked to base and it was a DOG!

And you could have fixed that in an hour with a $50 HEI and a $6 relay.

(Just sayin)

Took out the EGR. Here's are some photos.

EGR off engine.

Would this be called an EGR plenum?

Red Cap Behind EGR valve.

Not sure what the red cap is...any ideas?

And...if I delete the EGR valve, I'm guessing that there is a gasket and plate that I can place over the EGR ports?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Took out the EGR. Here's are some photos.

EGR off engine.

Would this be called an EGR plenum?

Red Cap Behind EGR valve.

Not sure what the red cap is...any ideas?

And...if I delete the EGR valve, I'm guessing that there is a gasket and plate that I can place over the EGR ports?

Pics too close to tell.

I have no context on my phone.

Yes there are block off plates and gaskets, or you could (literally) make one with a soda can.

Or, look at the job done to the poor 1-6 in a recent thread! : hair

This worries me though:

"I also removed a 2" steel tube and heat shroud(?) from an area about 18-20" below the air pump and sitting next to the engine block. It connected to the bottom of the air intake neck.

I plugged up all of the vacuum ports and hoses."

Your truck is never going to be close to right come cold weather.

The air cleaner itself tries to keep inlet air temperature steady so the 'dumb' carburetor can do its best at atomization and to keep it from icing up.

AMHIK.....

Rick, not a single post in this thread mentions EFI (except yours)

Go chase Rusty over in his thread....

 

[LARIAT 85]

Pics too close to tell.

I have no context on my phone.

Yes there are block off plates and gaskets, or you could (literally) make one with a soda can.

Or, look at the job done to the poor 1-6 in a recent thread! : hair

This worries me though:

"I also removed a 2" steel tube and heat shroud(?) from an area about 18-20" below the air pump and sitting next to the engine block. It connected to the bottom of the air intake neck.

I plugged up all of the vacuum ports and hoses."

Your truck is never going to be close to right come cold weather.

The air cleaner itself tries to keep inlet air temperature steady so the 'dumb' carburetor can do its best at atomization and to keep it from icing up.

AMHIK.....

Rick, not a single post in this thread mentions EFI (except yours)

Go chase Rusty over in his thread....

The point I was making was that, contrary to popular belief, these vehicles ran almost as good as a fuel-injected vehicle when they were new. I don't think Tom would want his basically stock truck that he uses for basic transportation and simple work duties to run worse than it does now. That is why I gave him the recommendations along with explanations (or "lectures" as you called them) that I did. Unlike EFI systems, carbureted vehicles are very easy to change and modify. But as you move further away from stock with mismatched and/or aftermarket parts, you are going to have more work to do and invest more time in order to make that happen - if at all.

[Rusty_S85]

Pics too close to tell.

I have no context on my phone.

Yes there are block off plates and gaskets, or you could (literally) make one with a soda can.

Or, look at the job done to the poor 1-6 in a recent thread! : hair

This worries me though:

"I also removed a 2" steel tube and heat shroud(?) from an area about 18-20" below the air pump and sitting next to the engine block. It connected to the bottom of the air intake neck.

I plugged up all of the vacuum ports and hoses."

Your truck is never going to be close to right come cold weather.

The air cleaner itself tries to keep inlet air temperature steady so the 'dumb' carburetor can do its best at atomization and to keep it from icing up.

AMHIK.....

Rick, not a single post in this thread mentions EFI (except yours)

Go chase Rusty over in his thread....

Which the hot air aspect of the air cleaner can help in fuel injection applications. Ive seen TBI`s actually freeze up in high humidity but a TBI freezing or frosting up isnt as devastating as on a carb. It is more of a necessity for a carb application.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Which the hot air aspect of the air cleaner can help in fuel injection applications. Ive seen TBI`s actually freeze up in high humidity but a TBI freezing or frosting up isnt as devastating as on a carb. It is more of a necessity for a carb application.

It's REALLY a necessity in Vermont in winter!

Plenty of vehicles run an aftermarket carb, electric choke and 'generic' distributor (like Mallory or MSD)

Tuning a carbureted engine is not witchcraft.

Anyone with a basic understanding of what they're trying to accomplish can get it done in an hour or two.

I guess some people aren't capable of using common sense or reading the book.

But it's not difficult at all.

If you go out of your way to pick the worst possible components it might be nigh impossible.

But no one is recommending a Dominator or a single downdraft Stromberg.

[Rusty_S85]

It's REALLY a necessity in Vermont in winter!

Plenty of vehicles run an aftermarket carb, electric choke and 'generic' distributor (like Mallory or MSD)

Tuning a carbureted engine is not witchcraft.

Anyone with a basic understanding of what they're trying to accomplish can get it done in an hour or two.

I guess some people aren't capable of using common sense or reading the book.

But it's not difficult at all.

If you go out of your way to pick the worst possible components it might be nigh impossible.

But no one is recommending a Dominator or a single downdraft Stromberg.

Yep just like here on the coastal region of Texas, it can be quite humid even in the fall. You dont really need a cold front with freezing weather for it to be cold enough for a carb or tbi to ice up when on the highway.

I think the problem comes in is some get too fixated on specifications when they are stepping away from OE specs. I know I used to do that years ago but once you make one change it becomes a never ending chain of changes to make everything match.

Throw aftermarket heart chamber heads on a emission engine and now you have to recurve the distributor or limit its max advance cause the slow burn emission heads had the distributor curved with more advance which will result in ping with heart chamber heads. Then you recurve the distributor now you have to adjust the timing as you may have to run more or less initial advance than emission decal states to get your total advance where it is needed to avoid ping or starter drag when hot.

About the only thing I have seen you dont have to change is the sparkplug gap. No matter what heads or timing you run or compression, if you are running the OE ignition system then you run the OE plug gap as it the gap is for your ignition system, too much gap will drive your coil harder and can lead to overheating. Even though I am going from 8.5:1 compression to 9.5:1 compression I am maintaining a DSII ignition system so I will maintain the .042" - .046" plug gap, I normally go in the middle of .044" and should be a good starting point if you even need to make adjustments.

That is what I have learned with my planning of my 306 build. Doing a aftermarket build and doing it right you realize just how hobbled a stock engine is of this era to get it to run right while meeting emission requirements.

[85lebaront2]

Yep just like here on the coastal region of Texas, it can be quite humid even in the fall. You dont really need a cold front with freezing weather for it to be cold enough for a carb or tbi to ice up when on the highway.

I think the problem comes in is some get too fixated on specifications when they are stepping away from OE specs. I know I used to do that years ago but once you make one change it becomes a never ending chain of changes to make everything match.

Throw aftermarket heart chamber heads on a emission engine and now you have to recurve the distributor or limit its max advance cause the slow burn emission heads had the distributor curved with more advance which will result in ping with heart chamber heads. Then you recurve the distributor now you have to adjust the timing as you may have to run more or less initial advance than emission decal states to get your total advance where it is needed to avoid ping or starter drag when hot.

About the only thing I have seen you dont have to change is the sparkplug gap. No matter what heads or timing you run or compression, if you are running the OE ignition system then you run the OE plug gap as it the gap is for your ignition system, too much gap will drive your coil harder and can lead to overheating. Even though I am going from 8.5:1 compression to 9.5:1 compression I am maintaining a DSII ignition system so I will maintain the .042" - .046" plug gap, I normally go in the middle of .044" and should be a good starting point if you even need to make adjustments.

That is what I have learned with my planning of my 306 build. Doing a aftermarket build and doing it right you realize just how hobbled a stock engine is of this era to get it to run right while meeting emission requirements.

As far as icing up a carburetor, I think the absolute worst was the old Holley "visi-flow" one barrel with the glass float bowl. Those would actually ice up the venturii to where they would barely run at all and the only cure was to pull over and shut it off and wait a couple of minutes for the engine heat to thaw it out. Cycling the choke with the engine off would break the ice (choke was in the venturii) and speed things up.

Before I converted Darth to EFI I had a few cool mornings where he would gradually slow down and go rich, followed by a sudden increase in rpm from throttle body icing, once the air preheat got high enough temperature it would stop.