1980 F150 4x4 Flareside Project

[ArdWrknTrk]

Loctite keeps the rust out.

It's probably the best thing ever!

They sure used plenty of it on the cab mount bolts of my Ranger. I had to heat them up from below and then zip them out with my impact. They weren't gonna come out any other way.

Note the condition of the threads on my cab mount bolts.

Then have a look at the salty carnage that is the frame and mounts themselves, on my cab upgrade.

34 years in Connecticut... (build 10/86)

[Rembrant]

Note the condition of the threads on my cab mount bolts.

Then have a look at the salty carnage that is the frame and mounts themselves, on my cab upgrade.

34 years in Connecticut... (build 10/86)

Does anybody happen to know if the frame rivets are all the same size? I mean for everything from the very rear leaf hangers to the crossmembers to the front coil spring and shock towers? The reason I'm asking is that I want to get some bolts to have on hand, and need to know what size to order.

Also, any comments good or bad about welding over Ospho? I will be de-scaling my frame and many parts removed from the frame like spring hangs and cab mounts, and radius arm brackets, etc. Wondering if I should perform my welding repairs before or after my Ospho treatments? Any thoughts on the topic?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Does anybody happen to know if the frame rivets are all the same size? I mean for everything from the very rear leaf hangers to the crossmembers to the front coil spring and shock towers? The reason I'm asking is that I want to get some bolts to have on hand, and need to know what size to order.

Also, any comments good or bad about welding over Ospho? I will be de-scaling my frame and many parts removed from the frame like spring hangs and cab mounts, and radius arm brackets, etc. Wondering if I should perform my welding repairs before or after my Ospho treatments? Any thoughts on the topic?

Think most of the rivets are the same size.

At the least, I know my spring hangers and cross member use the same bolts.

Are you thinking you wouldn't grind the phosphate back when you weld the front bumper ends on?

I'm not aware of big problems with phosphorus contamination, but I'm not a certified welder.

Edit: But there definitely are big problems if you think you can 'weld over rust'

Rust is oxides, and the #1 thing you DON'T want is any kind of oxygen IN a weld pool.......

[Rembrant]

Think most of the rivets are the same size.

At the least, I know my spring hangers and cross member use the same bolts.

Are you thinking you wouldn't grind the phosphate back when you weld the front bumper ends on?

I'm not aware of big problems with phosphorus contamination, but I'm not a certified welder.

Ok, I must go digging through the documentation and see if there is a recommended bolt size when replacing rivets. I know on the ones I just drilled out of the frame and crossmember, the holes are 7/16", so I'm going to try and use 7/16" bolts just so that they are as tight as possible in the holes (same as the rivets are/were).

As for the welding, yes I will grind where and when I have to, but I was able to weld over some of the rust the other day, which was cool, so I was just curious if I could do the same over Ospho. The reason I was curious is that since I'll be adding some plating, I'd like to Ospho the steel first if possible, but I didn't want to make it more difficult to weld over/through. Maybe I'll do some test pieces first and see how it works out.

I plan to remove and repair the crossmembers this weekend, and get to work on the frame rails themselves next week. Installing the Bullnose frame horns is of little conern to me...that's a pretty easy job. I'm more concerned with my patching and plating. The frame and crossmembers have some thin spots which I plan to beef up with some new steel. I'm just going to lay some 1/8" plate over the thinner areas to strengthen them.

[Gary Lewis]

Think most of the rivets are the same size.

At the least, I know my spring hangers and cross member use the same bolts.

Are you thinking you wouldn't grind the phosphate back when you weld the front bumper ends on?

I'm not aware of big problems with phosphorus contamination, but I'm not a certified welder.

Ok, I must go digging through the documentation and see if there is a recommended bolt size when replacing rivets. I know on the ones I just drilled out of the frame and crossmember, the holes are 7/16", so I'm going to try and use 7/16" bolts just so that they are as tight as possible in the holes (same as the rivets are/were).

As for the welding, yes I will grind where and when I have to, but I was able to weld over some of the rust the other day, which was cool, so I was just curious if I could do the same over Ospho. The reason I was curious is that since I'll be adding some plating, I'd like to Ospho the steel first if possible, but I didn't want to make it more difficult to weld over/through. Maybe I'll do some test pieces first and see how it works out.

I plan to remove and repair the crossmembers this weekend, and get to work on the frame rails themselves next week. Installing the Bullnose frame horns is of little conern to me...that's a pretty easy job. I'm more concerned with my patching and plating. The frame and crossmembers have some thin spots which I plan to beef up with some new steel. I'm just going to lay some 1/8" plate over the thinner areas to strengthen them.

What about this TSB: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/96-15-11-frame-rivet-replacement-with-bolts.html?

[Rembrant]

What about this TSB: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/96-15-11-frame-rivet-replacement-with-bolts.html?

That's the one Gary! Thanks.

So they want you to replace 7/16" rivets with 1/2" bolts, I guess? It makes me curious what size rivets I just drilled out? Were they 3/8" or 7/16"? The holes are 7/16". I assume they reamed the holes during assembly to get the 7/16" rivets in all of the holes? Surely they didn't all line up perfectly if the rivets and the holes were the same size...

I guess the simpler question would be: Do the 7/16" holes indicate that the rivets were also 7/16"?

[Gary Lewis]

What about this TSB: http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/96-15-11-frame-rivet-replacement-with-bolts.html?

That's the one Gary! Thanks.

So they want you to replace 7/16" rivets with 1/2" bolts, I guess? It makes me curious what size rivets I just drilled out? Were they 3/8" or 7/16"? The holes are 7/16". I assume they reamed the holes during assembly to get the 7/16" rivets in all of the holes? Surely they didn't all line up perfectly if the rivets and the holes were the same size...

I guess the simpler question would be: Do the 7/16" holes indicate that the rivets were also 7/16"?

The rivets swell to the size of the hole, and would go larger if they could. They are in tension every way from Sunday. But bolts won't fit that tightly or you couldn't get them in.

So I think the approach depends on which crossmember you are talking about. Anything associated with the front/engine crossmember needs to be TIGHT or you may well have movement and noise on turns. So for those I reamed the holes as said in the TSB and used at least the size bolt called for. In fact, in the case of the huck bolt I went one size larger.

Spring perches also get a lot of force. But the crossmember at the front of the gas tank maybe not so much and might well be fine just slipping the largest bolt that fits w/o reaming it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The rivets swell to the size of the hole, and would go larger if they could. They are in tension every way from Sunday. But bolts won't fit that tightly or you couldn't get them in.

So I think the approach depends on which crossmember you are talking about. Anything associated with the front/engine crossmember needs to be TIGHT or you may well have movement and noise on turns. So for those I reamed the holes as said in the TSB and used at least the size bolt called for. In fact, in the case of the huck bolt I went one size larger.

Spring perches also get a lot of force. But the crossmember at the front of the gas tank maybe not so much and might well be fine just slipping the largest bolt that fits w/o reaming it.

12mm is about .035" bigger than 7/16 Cory.

Since you live in a country that uses the metric system, perhaps you can ream to this.

I certainly wouldn't put too much into it.

Fasteners are meant to develop clamping pressure.

If you use proper prevailing torque flange nuts and bolts it should be held together plenty tight.

[Rembrant]

But the crossmember at the front of the gas tank maybe not so much and might well be fine just slipping the largest bolt that fits w/o reaming it.

Gary,

The crossmember in question was the one at the front of the gas tank, which is also the one that supports the back of the cab. I removed all 16 rviets yesterday and the drill and air chisel method worked great. I will be using it again this morning when I remove the next crossmember...the one for the rear of the mid-ship tank. I also tried some 7/16" bolts and they fit very snug, enough so that a couple have to be tapped through the holes.

Here is the angle bracket that I needed to replace, and you can see why. Typical rust belt stuff. They all end up looking like this in the salt.

In any case, I had my good replacement from the junkyard that I patched up. (That reminds me, I guess that makes 22 rivets I removed, just for this one part of the job, and I'm only just getting started...lol).

I ended up having to add some plates over a couple holes and thin spots, but it's back to be rock solid.

It was pretty thin where the cab mounts sit as well, so I put plates on the back side and re-drilled the holes. It's not pretty, but the welds penetrated well and it's strong. I basically made my own frame saver kit but installed it on the underside instead of the top. The top is fine, but I didn't want to screw around with the body height, so chose the bottom.

The driver's side was worse of course, but it's all good and strong now. Perfectly good for what I'm building, and besides...I don't have another crossmember to use anyway...not like I have much choice at this point!

Anyway, coffee is brewed, I'm off to the shop to remove the next crossmember...fingers crossed it needs less work.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

But the crossmember at the front of the gas tank maybe not so much and might well be fine just slipping the largest bolt that fits w/o reaming it.

Gary,

The crossmember in question was the one at the front of the gas tank, which is also the one that supports the back of the cab. I removed all 16 rviets yesterday and the drill and air chisel method worked great. I will be using it again this morning when I remove the next crossmember...the one for the rear of the mid-ship tank. I also tried some 7/16" bolts and they fit very snug, enough so that a couple have to be tapped through the holes.

Here is the angle bracket that I needed to replace, and you can see why. Typical rust belt stuff. They all end up looking like this in the salt.

In any case, I had my good replacement from the junkyard that I patched up. (That reminds me, I guess that makes 22 rivets I removed, just for this one part of the job, and I'm only just getting started...lol).

I ended up having to add some plates over a couple holes and thin spots, but it's back to be rock solid.

It was pretty thin where the cab mounts sit as well, so I put plates on the back side and re-drilled the holes. It's not pretty, but the welds penetrated well and it's strong. I basically made my own frame saver kit but installed it on the underside instead of the top. The top is fine, but I didn't want to screw around with the body height, so chose the bottom.

The driver's side was worse of course, but it's all good and strong now. Perfectly good for what I'm building, and besides...I don't have another crossmember to use anyway...not like I have much choice at this point!

Anyway, coffee is brewed, I'm off to the shop to remove the next crossmember...fingers crossed it needs less work.

At least your crossmember holes weren't so big as the bushing poked all the way through!

I had to put the patch on top and weld from the bottom, because I wasn't about to pull my cab.

Laying under a flux core weld is not too pleasant.