FuzzFace2 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Oh we got a funny guy! Just noticed your photo - my truck is the inverse paint job of yours! My thinking on the siphon is more of a "If the tank selector switch is stuck open, could fuel be siphoning back into the tank from the fuel lines?" (Not the carb fuel bowl) Yeah - when I have a 'hard start' situation it usually takes a minute or two of cranking a few times with a couple pedal presses and then it'll start. Sometimes it catches but then bogs down and stalls when I shift into gear after letting it idle a couple minutes. When I went to move the truck from my folks house, it hadn't been driven in a few weeks and the battery nearly went flat during cranking. Quick shot of starting ether and it fired right away and held idle. My overaching goal is to make it so my wife feels comfortable that she can get out there and start it without having to monkey around with things for 5-10 minutes. (Patience, whats that? ) If the lines does drain back to the tank, I cant see all the fuel in the line doing this but maybe some of it. If there is fuel in the carb bowl it should fire right up and the pump would then pull the fuel from the tank. What happens when sitting a few day and more the fuel in the carb evaporates and why you need to crank and pump the throttle till fuel fills the bowl. If it sits over night it should start with a pump of the throttle or 2 and fire up and run if the choke is adjusted right. As said mine may sit for a week between trash runs and I will need to crank it a lot before it fires up. Once running I dont need to let it warm up but I also have a stick trans and the choke is adjusted pretty good. If mine is started / driven every day just 1 pump, tap the key and it is running. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMUBullnose Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 If the lines does drain back to the tank, I cant see all the fuel in the line doing this but maybe some of it. If there is fuel in the carb bowl it should fire right up and the pump would then pull the fuel from the tank. What happens when sitting a few day and more the fuel in the carb evaporates and why you need to crank and pump the throttle till fuel fills the bowl. If it sits over night it should start with a pump of the throttle or 2 and fire up and run if the choke is adjusted right. As said mine may sit for a week between trash runs and I will need to crank it a lot before it fires up. Once running I dont need to let it warm up but I also have a stick trans and the choke is adjusted pretty good. If mine is started / driven every day just 1 pump, tap the key and it is running. Dave ---- That was my thought as well. I've had some starting issues the next morning as well. When I've pull the air cleaner off to check the choke plate (prior to any cold starting) it's ~90% closed. Maybe it is my choke, all my starting issues are when the truck is cold after a day or so - after the first pull, it starts great and instantly all day long. If the truck has been sitting a week, I feel like I'm cranking it until the battery is going to run out of juice, eventually it'll catch and then idle very poorly and want to die if I try to feather the throttle. The only thing I know needs replacing is the tank selector valve...from there I'm scratching my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzFace2 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 That was my thought as well. I've had some starting issues the next morning as well. When I've pull the air cleaner off to check the choke plate (prior to any cold starting) it's ~90% closed. Maybe it is my choke, all my starting issues are when the truck is cold after a day or so - after the first pull, it starts great and instantly all day long. If the truck has been sitting a week, I feel like I'm cranking it until the battery is going to run out of juice, eventually it'll catch and then idle very poorly and want to die if I try to feather the throttle. The only thing I know needs replacing is the tank selector valve...from there I'm scratching my head. The choke may need a little adjusting but first I need to ask. If sitting over night or 1 day how many times are you pumping the pedal before trying to start it? Also how cold has it been when trying to start it? I would say if the temp has been say 70*f and you are only pumping it 1 full to the floor and let up try 2 pumps and maybe 3 then nold the pedal down just a little. The colder it is the more pumps but I would not think it should need 3 pumps. If that dose nothing even with 3 pumps and a little throttle then you need to check both the choke and if the throttle is squirting fuel when moved. If it is not squirting that needs to be fixed first then if it still is hard to start the choke. If it has been sitting for a week where you know you have to crank it a lot I crank it and keep pumping the pedal as fast as I can till it fires up. I will stop after a few seconds for the starter to cool off then do it again till it is running. My truck only needs 1 pump when it sits overnight in a warm garage and maybe 2 pumps when cold out and it sits at work for 12+ hours. I grew up with carbs and many different make cars, trucks and motors so this is nothing new to me. Thing is you just need to find what your truck need to fire up. Dave ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMUBullnose Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 That was my thought as well. I've had some starting issues the next morning as well. When I've pull the air cleaner off to check the choke plate (prior to any cold starting) it's ~90% closed. Maybe it is my choke, all my starting issues are when the truck is cold after a day or so - after the first pull, it starts great and instantly all day long. If the truck has been sitting a week, I feel like I'm cranking it until the battery is going to run out of juice, eventually it'll catch and then idle very poorly and want to die if I try to feather the throttle. The only thing I know needs replacing is the tank selector valve...from there I'm scratching my head. The choke may need a little adjusting but first I need to ask. If sitting over night or 1 day how many times are you pumping the pedal before trying to start it? Also how cold has it been when trying to start it? I would say if the temp has been say 70*f and you are only pumping it 1 full to the floor and let up try 2 pumps and maybe 3 then nold the pedal down just a little. The colder it is the more pumps but I would not think it should need 3 pumps. If that dose nothing even with 3 pumps and a little throttle then you need to check both the choke and if the throttle is squirting fuel when moved. If it is not squirting that needs to be fixed first then if it still is hard to start the choke. If it has been sitting for a week where you know you have to crank it a lot I crank it and keep pumping the pedal as fast as I can till it fires up. I will stop after a few seconds for the starter to cool off then do it again till it is running. My truck only needs 1 pump when it sits overnight in a warm garage and maybe 2 pumps when cold out and it sits at work for 12+ hours. I grew up with carbs and many different make cars, trucks and motors so this is nothing new to me. Thing is you just need to find what your truck need to fire up. Dave ---- Great questions - thank you for commenting! If the truck has been sitting over night or 1 day, I'm usually pumping the pedal 1 time. I haven't done anything empirical comparing 1 v 2 pumps of the pedal (yet). Temps - we're still in a pseudo summer here in the Mid-Atlantic so temps have been between 70-85. I'm assuming that once winter does arrive, I'll need to some adjustments to the choke for cold starts (winter starting has always been an issue for this truck...that's another lay of the onion as Gary likes to say). I keep getting close to progress and then life gets in the way (I mean, look at the gap in time between my last updates on this truck and today! ) When the carb was rebuilt - I know the gent that owns the shop also replaced the power valve and accelerator pump diaphragm. Don't get me wrong, when the truck is running - it's running the best it has in a couple years. I know it could be better though - if I can get it to point where a couple pumps of the pedal and starts after some cranking I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMUBullnose Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 Great questions - thank you for commenting! If the truck has been sitting over night or 1 day, I'm usually pumping the pedal 1 time. I haven't done anything empirical comparing 1 v 2 pumps of the pedal (yet). Temps - we're still in a pseudo summer here in the Mid-Atlantic so temps have been between 70-85. I'm assuming that once winter does arrive, I'll need to some adjustments to the choke for cold starts (winter starting has always been an issue for this truck...that's another lay of the onion as Gary likes to say). I keep getting close to progress and then life gets in the way (I mean, look at the gap in time between my last updates on this truck and today! ) When the carb was rebuilt - I know the gent that owns the shop also replaced the power valve and accelerator pump diaphragm. Don't get me wrong, when the truck is running - it's running the best it has in a couple years. I know it could be better though - if I can get it to point where a couple pumps of the pedal and starts after some cranking I'll be happy. So I'm off this week as I switch jobs - decide I'm going to spend some time on the truck and see if I can't make it more reliable to start. I adjusted the idle mixture screws as the truck has been really rich when idling and the screws felt a little loose, like they had backed out from the previous setting. Re-baselined by screwing them in all the way and then backing out 1.5 turns like rangerstations's rebuild guide mentions in the tuning section. Got the car started (this has been challenging as of late - had to use a squirt of ether to get it going). Then allowed the truck to warm up and idle. Once nice and warm I adjusted the screws out a little more to even out the idle (making sure the screws were backed out evenly). Everything seemed great, truck idled for ~20 minutes or so just to top up the battery while I puttered with other things. Jump in the truck after putting all my tools away (condo - can't just leave them in an orderly fashion next to the parking space), put it in drive and make it all of 30' before it just dies without warning, didn't even stumble - just silence. Couldn't start it - would only turn over 3-4 times and stop. I checked the battery voltage, 12.4V with the truck off. Pushed it back to a parking spot and was able to get it started again with a quick hit of ether. Adjusted the mixture screws out a bit more since it seemd to be stumbling and it evened out. Once I had it even suddenly it just died again while I was standing in front of it. Throttle lever just kicked forward and truck died. This time it restarted right away and kept running. I was able to move it in both drive and reverse (and get it back into the spot it usually sits in). Unsure what's going on, it started to not want to hold an idle again and I could feather the throttle to keep it running. After the last shut off, I could hear oil draining back down into the pan - which made me check the dipstick. Low- so I'll add some oil there and check to make sure the coolant is good to go. But other than that, I'm at a loss. I also noticed that with a very warm engine the butterfly was only 1/2 - 2/3rds open. What have I screwed up by monkeying with this thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whitstone Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 So I'm off this week as I switch jobs - decide I'm going to spend some time on the truck and see if I can't make it more reliable to start. I adjusted the idle mixture screws as the truck has been really rich when idling and the screws felt a little loose, like they had backed out from the previous setting. Re-baselined by screwing them in all the way and then backing out 1.5 turns like rangerstations's rebuild guide mentions in the tuning section. Got the car started (this has been challenging as of late - had to use a squirt of ether to get it going). Then allowed the truck to warm up and idle. Once nice and warm I adjusted the screws out a little more to even out the idle (making sure the screws were backed out evenly). Everything seemed great, truck idled for ~20 minutes or so just to top up the battery while I puttered with other things. Jump in the truck after putting all my tools away (condo - can't just leave them in an orderly fashion next to the parking space), put it in drive and make it all of 30' before it just dies without warning, didn't even stumble - just silence. Couldn't start it - would only turn over 3-4 times and stop. I checked the battery voltage, 12.4V with the truck off. Pushed it back to a parking spot and was able to get it started again with a quick hit of ether. Adjusted the mixture screws out a bit more since it seemd to be stumbling and it evened out. Once I had it even suddenly it just died again while I was standing in front of it. Throttle lever just kicked forward and truck died. This time it restarted right away and kept running. I was able to move it in both drive and reverse (and get it back into the spot it usually sits in). Unsure what's going on, it started to not want to hold an idle again and I could feather the throttle to keep it running. After the last shut off, I could hear oil draining back down into the pan - which made me check the dipstick. Low- so I'll add some oil there and check to make sure the coolant is good to go. But other than that, I'm at a loss. I also noticed that with a very warm engine the butterfly was only 1/2 - 2/3rds open. What have I screwed up by monkeying with this thing? One possible explanation for that kind of behavior is small crud getting into passages in the carb. How old is the gas in the tank, the sock, the tank, the fuel lines themselves, and what's the filter situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMUBullnose Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 One possible explanation for that kind of behavior is small crud getting into passages in the carb. How old is the gas in the tank, the sock, the tank, the fuel lines themselves, and what's the filter situation? Hey Pete - Great question. Gas in the tank is fresh. I end up driving it one way or another every week or two and probably fill the tank once a month. Prior to me getting the bright idea to monkey with stuff today it was running just fine - just really a pain to start. Soft lines from the tank to the selector valve are 6 months old. Fuel filter at the carb is probably 2 years old or so. Carb was rebuilt this past summer by a local shop (well, local to my folks - I haven't found a shop like that here in our new home yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Hey Pete - Great question. Gas in the tank is fresh. I end up driving it one way or another every week or two and probably fill the tank once a month. Prior to me getting the bright idea to monkey with stuff today it was running just fine - just really a pain to start. Soft lines from the tank to the selector valve are 6 months old. Fuel filter at the carb is probably 2 years old or so. Carb was rebuilt this past summer by a local shop (well, local to my folks - I haven't found a shop like that here in our new home yet). You may have dislodged something when you moved the needles. On an Edelbrock I blow out the idle passages with compressed air, but on your carb you might damage the accelerator pump or the power valve, so I wouldn't do that. But, how far out did you finally get the screws? I'd think they would be around 2 turns out, and if you didn't get them that far I'd open them up a bit and try, then open up more and try. I think you are just way lean. Having said that, I'm going to ask Bill to come help with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMUBullnose Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 You may have dislodged something when you moved the needles. On an Edelbrock I blow out the idle passages with compressed air, but on your carb you might damage the accelerator pump or the power valve, so I wouldn't do that. But, how far out did you finally get the screws? I'd think they would be around 2 turns out, and if you didn't get them that far I'd open them up a bit and try, then open up more and try. I think you are just way lean. Having said that, I'm going to ask Bill to come help with this. Gary - it's funny you mentioned the screws. I was about 1.75- turns out. Finally pulled out the vacuum gauge and hooked it up to line going from the manifold vacuum to the PV on the carb (finally decided my vacuum routing!) I after a bit of fiddling it would seem that I needed to be about 2.5 turns out on both screws. They were about 3.5 out when I decided to re-baseline them. Reading right around 20 on my gauge now - I almost feel like I know what I'm doing! Waiting for the wife to get home so I can check the vacuum under load. When I sat in the cab and put it in drive - engine wanted to stall out until I feathered it. So, likely that I've got another slight adjustment to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Gary - it's funny you mentioned the screws. I was about 1.75- turns out. Finally pulled out the vacuum gauge and hooked it up to line going from the manifold vacuum to the PV on the carb (finally decided my vacuum routing!) I after a bit of fiddling it would seem that I needed to be about 2.5 turns out on both screws. They were about 3.5 out when I decided to re-baseline them. Reading right around 20 on my gauge now - I almost feel like I know what I'm doing! Waiting for the wife to get home so I can check the vacuum under load. When I sat in the cab and put it in drive - engine wanted to stall out until I feathered it. So, likely that I've got another slight adjustment to do. You said it was running quite rich, have you pulled any of the plugs to see what they look like? Part of what you describe sounds electrical related "shut off and the throttle went forward" that would indicate a loss of electrical power to the idle solenoid on the side of the carburetor. Since it is fed by the same source as the ignition system, that may be your problem. With it running, try slightly turning the key slightly back and forth, if the engine shuts off with very little motion towards "off" I would suspect the ignition switch, particularly if is the original or even just plain old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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