AC Rebuilding Quesion?

[Gary Lewis]

Don't get too close to that fan!

LOL it was the big floor fan in the garage I had pointing at me when working over the fender.

I found this picture

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/843x500/screen_shot_2018_02_09_at_10_24_01_pm_383fb6c9dadb8ecacba20fd69e8978c2043c068a.png

and some other posts on that other forum shows that I may need a different water pump pulley.

The other thing is the PS pump is using the front crank pulley groove where it should be in the center one.

Now what may be a cause is I am using the GM type PS pump and the way the mounting bracket is mounted to the front of the timing cover may be an issue on moving it back.

So tomorrow I move the truck back to my garage and pull the compressor & PS pump to see if I can wove it back to use the center crank groove then see if the AC pump will line up.

But it looks like I will need a water pump pulley for AC.

Dave ----

You do know we have a page on pulleys: Documentation/Engines/Pulleys?

[FuzzFace2]

You do know we have a page on pulleys: Documentation/Engines/Pulleys?

I will have to check it out.

I did see a post I thought on PS pulleys I did not think to look for water pump pulleys at that time.

Then again I was kind of burnt out from the heat and this issue:nabble_anim_crazy:

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

I will have to check it out.

I did see a post I thought on PS pulleys I did not think to look for water pump pulleys at that time.

Then again I was kind of burnt out from the heat and this issue:nabble_anim_crazy:

Dave ----

I know the "burnt out" feeling. I mowed and did the trimming yesterday, in spite of the heat warning. I was toast.

[FuzzFace2]

I know the "burnt out" feeling. I mowed and did the trimming yesterday, in spite of the heat warning. I was toast.

My grass needs cutting again but I am putting it off, it will be there what I am ready

Ok took the AC & PS pumps loose so I could play with the belts & pulleys.

I also checked out the information on the pulleys and it looks like the crank pulley / balancer is the same for the 300 motors AC or not.

But the water pump pulleys are different. It is hard to tell the size of each groove from the information but it list a few as 3 grooves and the 1 I have now is a 3 groove pulley.

Thing is 2 (close to motor and next one out) are large dia. and the last one is smaller dia. think for the air pump on non-AC trucks. On AC truck the air pump runs off the ALT.

I don't have an air pump and the ALT only has 1 groove to drive it.

That small dia. groove is where the AC belt needs to run and being a different dia. than the other 2 with belts on them a belt or 2 would burn out running at different speeds.

So I am on the look out for water pump pulley E0TZ 8509-B. Now also listed is a spacer E2TE-BA OR E0TZ 8546-A.

I don't know where this spacer goes if after the pulley is on the pump I can deal with that to space the fan into the shroud some.

As for the PS pump belt that is now running in the outer crank groove and needs to be in the center groove I think I can space it back some and still be a strong mount so that is what I will try and work on today.

Oh I can see I will have fun with the AC & PS belts. The new AC belt just makes it with the small dia. WP pulley so no way with the large one.

The PS belt now went crank to PS pump and needs to go over the WP pulley so way to short and the new AC belt way to long.

Nothing is easy with this truck

Dave ----

[FuzzFace2]

My grass needs cutting again but I am putting it off, it will be there what I am ready

Ok took the AC & PS pumps loose so I could play with the belts & pulleys.

I also checked out the information on the pulleys and it looks like the crank pulley / balancer is the same for the 300 motors AC or not.

But the water pump pulleys are different. It is hard to tell the size of each groove from the information but it list a few as 3 grooves and the 1 I have now is a 3 groove pulley.

Thing is 2 (close to motor and next one out) are large dia. and the last one is smaller dia. think for the air pump on non-AC trucks. On AC truck the air pump runs off the ALT.

I don't have an air pump and the ALT only has 1 groove to drive it.

That small dia. groove is where the AC belt needs to run and being a different dia. than the other 2 with belts on them a belt or 2 would burn out running at different speeds.

So I am on the look out for water pump pulley E0TZ 8509-B. Now also listed is a spacer E2TE-BA OR E0TZ 8546-A.

I don't know where this spacer goes if after the pulley is on the pump I can deal with that to space the fan into the shroud some.

As for the PS pump belt that is now running in the outer crank groove and needs to be in the center groove I think I can space it back some and still be a strong mount so that is what I will try and work on today.

Oh I can see I will have fun with the AC & PS belts. The new AC belt just makes it with the small dia. WP pulley so no way with the large one.

The PS belt now went crank to PS pump and needs to go over the WP pulley so way to short and the new AC belt way to long.

Nothing is easy with this truck

Dave ----

Ebay did not turn up anything on the pulley but did on the 2 inch spacer .......... for $90 NOS

Now I can sleep knowing the spacer is just a 2" deal.

Dave ----

[71_badmach]

Dave, I will give you what I have gleaned from the A/C classes I have taken over the last 20 years or so. In some states you HAVE to recert for A/C every couple of years and cant buy more then 3, 12 oz cans of R134 at a time if you are not certed. Welcome to California drewling into AZ.

1 The the blue orface tube should be fine for your pickup. It had a white one from the factory but the blue will work better the R134

2 If you are going to use R134, you need to be using Pag 150 oil with green die in it as the die will show where leaks are. You can use Ester oil, but pag 150 is recomended by Sanden and most of the major compressor manufacters. We have been told for years that Ester oil when used with R134 sets up a chem reaction that eats the aluminum parts in the system over time. The older the system, the quicker the reaction.

3 According to the Ford service manual for an 86 F150 regular cab, It has a 3 pound system. In that case, you need to add 1 oz of pag 150 for every 2 lbs of freon so an ounce and a half should be fine. Add the oil after you vacum down the system or at the same time you add the freon through the low side port.

4 You need to change the pressure switch on the accumulater/ dryer to an R134 switch as the pressures run a little different then they do with R12. The NAPA part number for this switch is TEM 207887, you can cross that to what ever parts source you want to.

5 Once you have the oil and freon added( you may have to start the engine and turn on the A/C to get the third lb in). Once all of that is done, watch the guages as the comperssor cycles. On the low side, the compressor should come on at around 22 lbs and shut off around 45 lbs, on the high side the compressor should shut off around 250 to 300 and come on around 100 psi. Some where between 250 and 300 lbs on the high side, the engine fan should kick in and drop the pressure. If the fan DOES NOT come on and drop the preassure , shut the engine off and replace the fan clutch. It the pressure is too high it will cause damage to the system.

Dont take any of this as gosple, it is just what I have learned as a truck and heavy equipment machanic over the last 20 or so years. I am sure someone on on this site knows a better way and has more nolage then me as even I am still learning

Many thanks for this detail and the "nugget" about changing the pressure switch over for R134a. And to the original poster, Dave, for posting on some of the aspects of this modification. I haven't gotten as far in my build yet, but I went with a serpentine conversion system that has a "peanut" Sanden compressor setup that I will be plumbing in eventually.

Hope you have had success in getting the pulleys sorted out.

[Gary Lewis]

Ebay did not turn up anything on the pulley but did on the 2 inch spacer .......... for $90 NOS

Now I can sleep knowing the spacer is just a 2" deal.

Dave ----

That's 'spensive!

As for the pulley, unless it is in the original packaging the seller won't know the part number. So they'll be listing it via ID # that's on it. So for part # E0TZ 8509-B you would be looking for E2TE-BA. Or, sometimes the manufacturer put the whole code on, so it might be E2TE 8509-BA.

[85lebaront2]

Dave, I will give you what I have gleaned from the A/C classes I have taken over the last 20 years or so. In some states you HAVE to recert for A/C every couple of years and cant buy more then 3, 12 oz cans of R134 at a time if you are not certed. Welcome to California drewling into AZ.

1 The the blue orface tube should be fine for your pickup. It had a white one from the factory but the blue will work better the R134

2 If you are going to use R134, you need to be using Pag 150 oil with green die in it as the die will show where leaks are. You can use Ester oil, but pag 150 is recomended by Sanden and most of the major compressor manufacters. We have been told for years that Ester oil when used with R134 sets up a chem reaction that eats the aluminum parts in the system over time. The older the system, the quicker the reaction.

3 According to the Ford service manual for an 86 F150 regular cab, It has a 3 pound system. In that case, you need to add 1 oz of pag 150 for every 2 lbs of freon so an ounce and a half should be fine. Add the oil after you vacum down the system or at the same time you add the freon through the low side port.

4 You need to change the pressure switch on the accumulater/ dryer to an R134 switch as the pressures run a little different then they do with R12. The NAPA part number for this switch is TEM 207887, you can cross that to what ever parts source you want to.

5 Once you have the oil and freon added( you may have to start the engine and turn on the A/C to get the third lb in). Once all of that is done, watch the guages as the comperssor cycles. On the low side, the compressor should come on at around 22 lbs and shut off around 45 lbs, on the high side the compressor should shut off around 250 to 300 and come on around 100 psi. Some where between 250 and 300 lbs on the high side, the engine fan should kick in and drop the pressure. If the fan DOES NOT come on and drop the preassure , shut the engine off and replace the fan clutch. It the pressure is too high it will cause damage to the system.

Dont take any of this as gosple, it is just what I have learned as a truck and heavy equipment machanic over the last 20 or so years. I am sure someone on on this site knows a better way and has more nolage then me as even I am still learning

Pete, you do not need to change the pressure switch, it is adjustable with a screwdriver. You need to make a short pair of male on one end, female on the other jumpers so you can remove the plug, connect the jumpers across from the switch to the plug then adjust the cutoff pressure for R134.

I did this on Darth and the 1990 Lincoln Town Car we owned. Matt and I drove it to an R134 conversion class and the fellow doing the class was so happy to have an R12 to R134 conversion to demonstrate on. Only recommendation was to replace the emergency relief valve with a high pressure cutoff switch.

[FuzzFace2]

Dave, I will give you what I have gleaned from the A/C classes I have taken over the last 20 years or so. In some states you HAVE to recert for A/C every couple of years and cant buy more then 3, 12 oz cans of R134 at a time if you are not certed. Welcome to California drewling into AZ.

1 The the blue orface tube should be fine for your pickup. It had a white one from the factory but the blue will work better the R134

2 If you are going to use R134, you need to be using Pag 150 oil with green die in it as the die will show where leaks are. You can use Ester oil, but pag 150 is recomended by Sanden and most of the major compressor manufacters. We have been told for years that Ester oil when used with R134 sets up a chem reaction that eats the aluminum parts in the system over time. The older the system, the quicker the reaction.

3 According to the Ford service manual for an 86 F150 regular cab, It has a 3 pound system. In that case, you need to add 1 oz of pag 150 for every 2 lbs of freon so an ounce and a half should be fine. Add the oil after you vacum down the system or at the same time you add the freon through the low side port.

4 You need to change the pressure switch on the accumulater/ dryer to an R134 switch as the pressures run a little different then they do with R12. The NAPA part number for this switch is TEM 207887, you can cross that to what ever parts source you want to.

5 Once you have the oil and freon added( you may have to start the engine and turn on the A/C to get the third lb in). Once all of that is done, watch the guages as the comperssor cycles. On the low side, the compressor should come on at around 22 lbs and shut off around 45 lbs, on the high side the compressor should shut off around 250 to 300 and come on around 100 psi. Some where between 250 and 300 lbs on the high side, the engine fan should kick in and drop the pressure. If the fan DOES NOT come on and drop the preassure , shut the engine off and replace the fan clutch. It the pressure is too high it will cause damage to the system.

Dont take any of this as gosple, it is just what I have learned as a truck and heavy equipment machanic over the last 20 or so years. I am sure someone on on this site knows a better way and has more nolage then me as even I am still learning

Many thanks for this detail and the "nugget" about changing the pressure switch over for R134a. And to the original poster, Dave, for posting on some of the aspects of this modification. I haven't gotten as far in my build yet, but I went with a serpentine conversion system that has a "peanut" Sanden compressor setup that I will be plumbing in eventually.

Hope you have had success in getting the pulleys sorted out.

Dave, I don't think you will have any of the problems with the 302 as I do with the 300 and even less with that belt set up.

Did your truck have AC from the factory or something else?

Good luck with your build.

Dave ----

 

[FuzzFace2]

That's 'spensive!

As for the pulley, unless it is in the original packaging the seller won't know the part number. So they'll be listing it via ID # that's on it. So for part # E0TZ 8509-B you would be looking for E2TE-BA. Or, sometimes the manufacturer put the whole code on, so it might be E2TE 8509-BA.

Gary, thanks for the break down. I searched with a O and a 0 space and no space, think I even tried 8509, but did not think to try the E2TE-BA as I did not really know what that was.

Wish me luck as I will try every combo I can think of LOL

Thanks

Dave ----