AC Rebuilding Quesion?

[FuzzFace2]

I am getting AC parts to get my F100 system working again.

I have a new condenser, used Sanden compressor (marked 85 F150), going to flush the evap., new dryer & orifice valve (blue I think) and not sure on hoses if new or used or combo of both?

So what oil do I add to the system PAG or Ester?

If PAG what flavor 46, 100 or 150?

How much oil with just a used compressor and the rest either new or flushed out?

When would the oil be added and where? Pull a vacuum and suck it in or pour it in a open hose before a vacuum is pulled?

And maybe the last question how much R134A would it take?

I know it should be weighed but if doing this all at home I would not have access to a scale so wing it with cans and gauges.

Then again I may get everything in place and if I cant get a vacuum pump may farm the charging out so would not really need to know then.

Thanks guys in advance

Dave ----

[85lebaront2]

Ester, unless you are absolutely sure there is no petroleum base oil anywhere in the system.

On charging it, you want the low side high enough that you aren't short cycling the compressor, the upper line on the evaporator and the accumulator (tank) should be cold, ideally inlet and outlet to the evaporator should be close in temperature.

[FuzzFace2]

Ester, unless you are absolutely sure there is no petroleum base oil anywhere in the system.

On charging it, you want the low side high enough that you aren't short cycling the compressor, the upper line on the evaporator and the accumulator (tank) should be cold, ideally inlet and outlet to the evaporator should be close in temperature.

Ester it is as I don't know what oil is in the compressor and if I end up using some of the old hose it could have some on it also.

Would you know how much is needed with a new condenser, flushed evap and some that leaked out of the pump?

I did find it would take 2.5 to 3 can 12oz cans to charge the system that has been under a vacuum to check for leaks and remove any moisture.

I think right now the hardest part will be getting hoses that will work between the 2 systems.

Old hose don't fit the new pump, new hoses on order so will see if they fit when I get them.

Thanks

Dave ----

[old55pete]

Dave, I will give you what I have gleaned from the A/C classes I have taken over the last 20 years or so. In some states you HAVE to recert for A/C every couple of years and cant buy more then 3, 12 oz cans of R134 at a time if you are not certed. Welcome to California drewling into AZ.

1 The the blue orface tube should be fine for your pickup. It had a white one from the factory but the blue will work better the R134

2 If you are going to use R134, you need to be using Pag 150 oil with green die in it as the die will show where leaks are. You can use Ester oil, but pag 150 is recomended by Sanden and most of the major compressor manufacters. We have been told for years that Ester oil when used with R134 sets up a chem reaction that eats the aluminum parts in the system over time. The older the system, the quicker the reaction.

3 According to the Ford service manual for an 86 F150 regular cab, It has a 3 pound system. In that case, you need to add 1 oz of pag 150 for every 2 lbs of freon so an ounce and a half should be fine. Add the oil after you vacum down the system or at the same time you add the freon through the low side port.

4 You need to change the pressure switch on the accumulater/ dryer to an R134 switch as the pressures run a little different then they do with R12. The NAPA part number for this switch is TEM 207887, you can cross that to what ever parts source you want to.

5 Once you have the oil and freon added( you may have to start the engine and turn on the A/C to get the third lb in). Once all of that is done, watch the guages as the comperssor cycles. On the low side, the compressor should come on at around 22 lbs and shut off around 45 lbs, on the high side the compressor should shut off around 250 to 300 and come on around 100 psi. Some where between 250 and 300 lbs on the high side, the engine fan should kick in and drop the pressure. If the fan DOES NOT come on and drop the preassure , shut the engine off and replace the fan clutch. It the pressure is too high it will cause damage to the system.

Dont take any of this as gosple, it is just what I have learned as a truck and heavy equipment machanic over the last 20 or so years. I am sure someone on on this site knows a better way and has more nolage then me as even I am still learning

[FuzzFace2]

Dave, I will give you what I have gleaned from the A/C classes I have taken over the last 20 years or so. In some states you HAVE to recert for A/C every couple of years and cant buy more then 3, 12 oz cans of R134 at a time if you are not certed. Welcome to California drewling into AZ.

1 The the blue orface tube should be fine for your pickup. It had a white one from the factory but the blue will work better the R134

2 If you are going to use R134, you need to be using Pag 150 oil with green die in it as the die will show where leaks are. You can use Ester oil, but pag 150 is recomended by Sanden and most of the major compressor manufacters. We have been told for years that Ester oil when used with R134 sets up a chem reaction that eats the aluminum parts in the system over time. The older the system, the quicker the reaction.

3 According to the Ford service manual for an 86 F150 regular cab, It has a 3 pound system. In that case, you need to add 1 oz of pag 150 for every 2 lbs of freon so an ounce and a half should be fine. Add the oil after you vacum down the system or at the same time you add the freon through the low side port.

4 You need to change the pressure switch on the accumulater/ dryer to an R134 switch as the pressures run a little different then they do with R12. The NAPA part number for this switch is TEM 207887, you can cross that to what ever parts source you want to.

5 Once you have the oil and freon added( you may have to start the engine and turn on the A/C to get the third lb in). Once all of that is done, watch the guages as the comperssor cycles. On the low side, the compressor should come on at around 22 lbs and shut off around 45 lbs, on the high side the compressor should shut off around 250 to 300 and come on around 100 psi. Some where between 250 and 300 lbs on the high side, the engine fan should kick in and drop the pressure. If the fan DOES NOT come on and drop the preassure , shut the engine off and replace the fan clutch. It the pressure is too high it will cause damage to the system.

Dont take any of this as gosple, it is just what I have learned as a truck and heavy equipment machanic over the last 20 or so years. I am sure someone on on this site knows a better way and has more nolage then me as even I am still learning

Thanks Steve for that information it all helps.

I went with Ester oil because that is what most said to use on a mixed (R12 / 134A) system.

I will have to re-read the post to see how much I need to add to the system.

Well ran into I hope a little problem.

My home made brackets fit the compressor and the motor side bracket so the compressor is bolted in place.

Next I figured lets put the belt on and this is where it turned bad

the crank has 3 belt grooves, P/S pump only has 1 groove, ALT only has 1 groove, water pump has 2 large and 1 small (air pump? don't have one) groove.

ALT uses the groove close to the motor on the crank & water pump and lines up great.

The P/S uses the outer groove on the crank and nothing else.

The center groove on the crank and the small one (close to the radiator) on the water pump are not used.

It looks like the water pump needs a larger groove where the small one is and the crank needs one added to the front of it for the AC belt to work.

So what pulleys do I need to get this to work?

I should add I am using the GM style PS pump I was told from a van.

On a better note I think I have all the hoses I need to have a sealed system.

1 of the new hoses I bought I have no clue where it is used as 1 end looks to be NPT and no where on the system do I have that. I want to say it was the line from evap where the orifice valve goes to the condenser as I had to reuse my old one. So I am guessing the later evaps have a NPT where mine does not?

I should be able to use the 80/81 dryer as the hose does fit it but I needed to bend the dryer fitting a little so the hose would clear the hood. I do want to see if the 83/86 new dryer will fit the evap and if so then that hose will fit a lot better and no need to bend the dryer. But if the new dryer does not fit I now know I can get one to replace mine and be good to go.

Once I get the pulley / belt thing worked out I should be good I think.

Dave ----

[FuzzFace2]

Thanks Steve for that information it all helps.

I went with Ester oil because that is what most said to use on a mixed (R12 / 134A) system.

I will have to re-read the post to see how much I need to add to the system.

Well ran into I hope a little problem.

My home made brackets fit the compressor and the motor side bracket so the compressor is bolted in place.

Next I figured lets put the belt on and this is where it turned bad

the crank has 3 belt grooves, P/S pump only has 1 groove, ALT only has 1 groove, water pump has 2 large and 1 small (air pump? don't have one) groove.

ALT uses the groove close to the motor on the crank & water pump and lines up great.

The P/S uses the outer groove on the crank and nothing else.

The center groove on the crank and the small one (close to the radiator) on the water pump are not used.

It looks like the water pump needs a larger groove where the small one is and the crank needs one added to the front of it for the AC belt to work.

So what pulleys do I need to get this to work?

I should add I am using the GM style PS pump I was told from a van.

On a better note I think I have all the hoses I need to have a sealed system.

1 of the new hoses I bought I have no clue where it is used as 1 end looks to be NPT and no where on the system do I have that. I want to say it was the line from evap where the orifice valve goes to the condenser as I had to reuse my old one. So I am guessing the later evaps have a NPT where mine does not?

I should be able to use the 80/81 dryer as the hose does fit it but I needed to bend the dryer fitting a little so the hose would clear the hood. I do want to see if the 83/86 new dryer will fit the evap and if so then that hose will fit a lot better and no need to bend the dryer. But if the new dryer does not fit I now know I can get one to replace mine and be good to go.

Once I get the pulley / belt thing worked out I should be good I think.

Dave ----

Up date on the dryer, The later 83-86 one will not fit the 80/81 evap.

The fitting between them don't match so I will have to return it and the hose that dose not fit anything and order the right dryer.

Once the belt issue is worked out I should be all set to vacuum & charge the system.

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Up date on the dryer, The later 83-86 one will not fit the 80/81 evap.

The fitting between them don't match so I will have to return it and the hose that dose not fit anything and order the right dryer.

Once the belt issue is worked out I should be all set to vacuum & charge the system.

Dave ----

Two steps forward and one backward is still progress.

[FuzzFace2]

Two steps forward and one backward is still progress.

Yep and I thought the hoses were going to be the PITA part

Wife is not happy I got to put more money into this.

When we picked up the compressor she asked then how much more?

Told her hoses, dryer, belt and to charge the system.

I am so close I can almost feel the cold air blowing ...... oh wait I was standing in front of the fan

Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Two steps forward and one backward is still progress.

Yep and I thought the hoses were going to be the PITA part

Wife is not happy I got to put more money into this.

When we picked up the compressor she asked then how much more?

Told her hoses, dryer, belt and to charge the system.

I am so close I can almost feel the cold air blowing ...... oh wait I was standing in front of the fan

Dave ----

Don't get too close to that fan!

[FuzzFace2]

Don't get too close to that fan!

LOL it was the big floor fan in the garage I had pointing at me when working over the fender.

I found this picture

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/843x500/screen_shot_2018_02_09_at_10_24_01_pm_383fb6c9dadb8ecacba20fd69e8978c2043c068a.png

and some other posts on that other forum shows that I may need a different water pump pulley.

The other thing is the PS pump is using the front crank pulley groove where it should be in the center one.

Now what may be a cause is I am using the GM type PS pump and the way the mounting bracket is mounted to the front of the timing cover may be an issue on moving it back.

So tomorrow I move the truck back to my garage and pull the compressor & PS pump to see if I can wove it back to use the center crank groove then see if the AC pump will line up.

But it looks like I will need a water pump pulley for AC.

Dave ----