PMGR starter for 1984 302 automatic

[Phil-S]

Hello my friends from all over the world,

I need your help. Yesterday we had the first really warm day in Germany and i had to get some stuff from the hardware store. To not run out of gas (really dont trust my fuel indicator atm) I filled up gas after a 15min ride in the sun. And when trying to leave the gas station there it was again...my issue when i still had the truck in South Carolina ;) ... when turning the key the starter would turn but the engine not crank. Also when I got my battery jumped with another car it didnt help.

After some tries the starter turned slower and slower. Even when the other car was hooked.

I also could feel the solenoid being very hot. Since i generally see sparks flying on the solenoid when i turn the key i am of the opinion that i should get a PMGR starter.

Since i have to get it shipped to Germany it would need to be the correct one. So i would be happy about any purchase recommendations for my 1984 F150 302 with Automatic Transmission. At the moment i am having a pretty new Carquest 3180S, which was installed last year in the US because the mechanic believed that this would fix my issue.

Thanks in advance for your help. Again, if anybody makes it to Regensburg please be sure to stop by my place ;)

[myrl883]

I'm not sure about Carquest, but the current Ford part number for reference is E9SZ-11002-BRM. Ford sells it for $156.96 exchange.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Phil, this is the kind of starter you want.

https://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-SFD0001-Starter-Thunderbird/dp/B007Y86938/ref=pd_lpo_263_t_0/138-6966818-4882522?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B007Y86938&pd_rd_r=aeee83d3-51ad-449b-94e4-dd41ee0e56dd&pd_rd_w=fDDZ0&pd_rd_wg=YjaT5&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=GXXCKFA8WZZCN86GRPQH&psc=1&refRID=GXXCKFA8WZZCN86GRPQH

I provide this listing because of all the model cross references listed in the product information.

Surely one of them, you can get.

I am not sure if this is available on amazon.de but it may be, and would be a LOT easier and cheaper than importing yourself.

[85lebaront2]

1990 Lincoln Town Car is an excellent match for your truck. I assume you already know what wiring changes are needed.

[LARIAT 85]

There is nothing wrong with a PMGR starter, but you don't "need" it. I have the stock (conventional) starter on my truck with a 5.0/302 and AOD automatic and it starts right up - and that is with my spark plugs gaped to 0.050" and the timing turned up to 16 BTDC.

There is something else causing your problem. How do your battery cables look? Have you inspected the ground wires? Your truck is 36 years old now, and these types of things should be inspected and/or replaced.

[ArdWrknTrk]

So the issue is your starter won't engage the ring gear of the flex plate?

Or the issue is that your fender mounted starter relay is throwing sparks?

If installing a new starter didn't fix the engagement problem, you likely need a new flexplate, because the teeth are damaged. (I'm facing this problem now too )

If the fender relay is getting hot from lots of cranking, that is not unusual.

If you see smoke or sparks THAT is an issue that needs to be fixed!

Running the battery + cable to the starter and using the fender mounted relay only to trigger the starter will take the load off. (My PMGR starter claims 13A to hold the solenoid closed)

[Phil-S]

So the issue is your starter won't engage the ring gear of the flex plate?

Or the issue is that your fender mounted starter relay is throwing sparks?

If installing a new starter didn't fix the engagement problem, you likely need a new flexplate, because the teeth are damaged. (I'm facing this problem now too )

If the fender relay is getting hot from lots of cranking, that is not unusual.

If you see smoke or sparks THAT is an issue that needs to be fixed!

Running the battery + cable to the starter and using the fender mounted relay only to trigger the starter will take the load off. (My PMGR starter claims 13A to hold the solenoid closed)

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

1. Thanks for the part numbers and links. This definitely helps me finding the correct one. I thought about getting this one since it ships pretty cheap to Germany

Motorcraft Starter

I guess i understood how to change the wiring between battery, relay and starter.

2. The + and - cables directly off of battery post I did replace last year.

The one from relay to starter is the „old“ one or at least i havent replaced it within the last year. I dont know how the connections look at the starter itself. If swapping to a PMGR i would replace all of the wires anyhow.

3. I believe the engagement of the starter is not the issue. I can hear it working „hard“ trying to spin (its not a turning loose sound)

Can it be that it is no turning fast enough because the starter wont get enough power?

So when i had the issue this week at the gas station the starter turned, engine would crank but not start.

Can it be something else as well (fuel pump etc)? What should i check?

Overall, i believe i have some resistance issue around the solenoid. The sparks on the solenoid i see everytime (also on a cold start after a long rest)

Also, last year after a 30min drive when i stopped and removed the key the starter turned on its own. (Burned bridge on the solenoid i guess, but strange why it would do it when i stopped the car and took the key after a drive) This was a „new“ autozone solenoid. Now i am using an original one (Feels and looks a lot more solid from a scrap (spender) car from that time.)

I hope i am not confusing you guys too much. I am pretty new to working on cars on my own and also language is a barrier.

Cheers

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

1. Thanks for the part numbers and links. This definitely helps me finding the correct one. I thought about getting this one since it ships pretty cheap to Germany

Motorcraft Starter

I guess i understood how to change the wiring between battery, relay and starter.

2. The + and - cables directly off of battery post I did replace last year.

The one from relay to starter is the „old“ one or at least i havent replaced it within the last year. I dont know how the connections look at the starter itself. If swapping to a PMGR i would replace all of the wires anyhow.

3. I believe the engagement of the starter is not the issue. I can hear it working „hard“ trying to spin (its not a turning loose sound)

Can it be that it is no turning fast enough because the starter wont get enough power?

So when i had the issue this week at the gas station the starter turned, engine would crank but not start.

Can it be something else as well (fuel pump etc)? What should i check?

Overall, i believe i have some resistance issue around the solenoid. The sparks on the solenoid i see everytime (also on a cold start after a long rest)

Also, last year after a 30min drive when i stopped and removed the key the starter turned on its own. (Burned bridge on the solenoid i guess, but strange why it would do it when i stopped the car and took the key after a drive) This was a „new“ autozone solenoid. Now i am using an original one (Feels and looks a lot more solid from a scrap (spender) car from that time.)

I hope i am not confusing you guys too much. I am pretty new to working on cars on my own and also language is a barrier.

Cheers

1) I would question buying a remanufactured starter.

After all, that starter was scrap for some reason, and we here don't always see that starters and alternators have the highest standards when rebuilt.

Often the bare minimum is done.

2) I would do a voltage drop test across your existing starter cable.

This can show internal corrosion and resistance in the cable, if you have recently replaced the battery terminal cables they do not seem suspect (as long as the ends are clean and firmly attached.

A resistive cable (voltage drop) will lead to a lot of energy being dissipated as heat,

The starter wants XX amount of power, if the voltage comes low the amperage goes up in order to balance Ohm's law.

3) if the starter is laboring on hot starts -one of- the first things I would check is static ignition timing and that the DuraSpark ignition module is properly retarding spark while the starter is engaged.

I will say that a starter is intended for MOMENTARY use.

It is not a motor in the sense that it has any internal cooling and once it heats up, resistance goes up.

This is not only a vicious cycle, but the windings lacquer insulation breaks down.

A laboring starter can pull 400A and without a long rest for the copper windings to cool, continued cranking will lead to damage.

I do not understand how the starter could become engaged when removing the key.

But many of us know that the contacts in the fender relay will weld shut and remain connected if the relay is over used (momentary duty cycle) and that bad cabling or a laboring starter will cause this.

Once pitted, the contacts in the relay are relying on just the peaks to transfer power.

The idea of two smooth surfaces coming in contact, and relying on that area being enough to pass the power demands of the starter motor are over.

I think your command of the English language is quite good.

I try to answer in a concise and articulate manner but if you have questions, or do not understand something, please ask how I may phrase it better.

[Jesse3877]

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

1. Thanks for the part numbers and links. This definitely helps me finding the correct one. I thought about getting this one since it ships pretty cheap to Germany

Motorcraft Starter

I guess i understood how to change the wiring between battery, relay and starter.

2. The + and - cables directly off of battery post I did replace last year.

The one from relay to starter is the „old“ one or at least i havent replaced it within the last year. I dont know how the connections look at the starter itself. If swapping to a PMGR i would replace all of the wires anyhow.

3. I believe the engagement of the starter is not the issue. I can hear it working „hard“ trying to spin (its not a turning loose sound)

Can it be that it is no turning fast enough because the starter wont get enough power?

So when i had the issue this week at the gas station the starter turned, engine would crank but not start.

Can it be something else as well (fuel pump etc)? What should i check?

Overall, i believe i have some resistance issue around the solenoid. The sparks on the solenoid i see everytime (also on a cold start after a long rest)

Also, last year after a 30min drive when i stopped and removed the key the starter turned on its own. (Burned bridge on the solenoid i guess, but strange why it would do it when i stopped the car and took the key after a drive) This was a „new“ autozone solenoid. Now i am using an original one (Feels and looks a lot more solid from a scrap (spender) car from that time.)

I hope i am not confusing you guys too much. I am pretty new to working on cars on my own and also language is a barrier.

Cheers

Sounds like a combination of bad connections and heat soaked starter. I have a Tuff Stuff PMGR starter and am happy with it. You can also get an inexpensive PMGR starter from a early to mid 90’s f150. Upgrade your wiring by one size larger. Make sure your fender mounted solenoid is properly grounded to the fender or a good known ground. You should never see sparks.

[Phil-S]

Thanks a lot guys. I will order that replacement starter and try out your other recommendations. I will keep you posted but it will take a while.