Gary Lewis Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 You know, someone suggest that on FTE, and was told "I don't want to drill holes in the expensive aluminum heads". What changed your mind? I was hoping to just replace the v-belt pulleys with serpentine pulleys. No change of brackets and no holes to drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I was hoping to just replace the v-belt pulleys with serpentine pulleys. No change of brackets and no holes to drill. Bill sent me a couple of pdf's regarding Saginaw pumps, which got me to wondering what I could find. With some searching I found one of the two he sent as well as a couple more and put them in the Suspension & Steering folder in the Resources section. (Bill - I'd put the other one there if I knew where to find it. I have found it in a slightly different guise, but prefer the one you sent.) Also, along the way I organized the Suspension & Steering folder as it was loooooong and hard to fathom. Please see what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Bill sent me a couple of pdf's regarding Saginaw pumps, which got me to wondering what I could find. With some searching I found one of the two he sent as well as a couple more and put them in the Suspension & Steering folder in the Resources section. (Bill - I'd put the other one there if I knew where to find it. I have found it in a slightly different guise, but prefer the one you sent.) Also, along the way I organized the Suspension & Steering folder as it was loooooong and hard to fathom. Please see what you think. Which one couldn't you find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 Well, I pulled the C2 pump out of the IDI serpentine bracket and I have to say that the prospect of getting a Saginaw in there is not looking too good... The bracket feels thin and fragile to me. I don't think it is robust enough to cut a lot of the walls away, and by eyeballing a Saginaw next to it I'd say most of the walls would have to go. Even if I used a remote reservoir one, the flat spot on the bracket would have to be removed... The space is so darn tight I just don't know if I can fit the Saginaw with the crimped lip reservoir canister without compromising the strength of the bracket. I'm not throwing in the towel just yet, but like I said, it's not looking good. I may end up back converting to V belts. There may be hope for me yet... I went to the junkyard and found a pump that is probably as good as it is going to get. The donor was a1986 Chevy/GM 6.2 diesel one ton dually with hydroboost and a remote reservoir type canister. It more or less fits into the space on the IDI bracket, but with the reservoir barb pointed up the shaft is not centered. This might be okay if I could find a slightly shorter belt. Otherwise, rotating the pump about 60* provides better centering as long as all the hoses still reach and clear. C2 pump for comparison For one, I will probably have to make my own adapter to get the clocking right. The horseshoe one from PSC is a crapshoot whether it will orient it the way I need. The other problem is the pulley. I grabbed one from a 1989 E150 straight six van. The offset is reflexed back toward the bracket compared to the IDI one and it just won't work. But one thing I learned today is just how many Saginaw pumps there are on GM and Dodge vehicles, so I have about a bazillion pulleys to choose from. I just need to find one with an offset that will work with my shaft stick out after an adapter thickness. The other problem is the remote reservoir. The donor's was MIA at the junkyard. I pulled one from a remote reservoir C20 van, but the barb and hose is considerably smaller. Not a huge deal, there is nothing esoteric about these. It's just a can. I can possibly modify this one if I can't find one with the right barb. One interesting thing is the hydroboost unit looks pretty much identical to the Ford one, and may be made with many of the same parts. It looks like the high pressure line from the Saginaw may bolt right on, with no need to have special hoses made. New ones are available on RockAuto for $15-20 range, way cheaper than what I did on my I-6. I will report back on this once I try to bolt it up. It routes over to the driver side instead of the passenger side but clears nicely. Gary, sorry I didn't find any hydroboost Silverado with two returns. There was only one Durango with a vertical cooler but it was quite different and had long hard lines running to it. I will have to check the other yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 There may be hope for me yet... I went to the junkyard and found a pump that is probably as good as it is going to get. The donor was a1986 Chevy/GM 6.2 diesel one ton dually with hydroboost and a remote reservoir type canister. It more or less fits into the space on the IDI bracket, but with the reservoir barb pointed up the shaft is not centered. This might be okay if I could find a slightly shorter belt. Otherwise, rotating the pump about 60* provides better centering as long as all the hoses still reach and clear. C2 pump for comparison For one, I will probably have to make my own adapter to get the clocking right. The horseshoe one from PSC is a crapshoot whether it will orient it the way I need. The other problem is the pulley. I grabbed one from a 1989 E150 straight six van. The offset is reflexed back toward the bracket compared to the IDI one and it just won't work. But one thing I learned today is just how many Saginaw pumps there are on GM and Dodge vehicles, so I have about a bazillion pulleys to choose from. I just need to find one with an offset that will work with my shaft stick out after an adapter thickness. The other problem is the remote reservoir. The donor's was MIA at the junkyard. I pulled one from a remote reservoir C20 van, but the barb and hose is considerably smaller. Not a huge deal, there is nothing esoteric about these. It's just a can. I can possibly modify this one if I can't find one with the right barb. One interesting thing is the hydroboost unit looks pretty much identical to the Ford one, and may be made with many of the same parts. It looks like the high pressure line from the Saginaw may bolt right on, with no need to have special hoses made. New ones are available on RockAuto for $15-20 range, way cheaper than what I did on my I-6. I will report back on this once I try to bolt it up. It routes over to the driver side instead of the passenger side but clears nicely. Gary, sorry I didn't find any hydroboost Silverado with two returns. There was only one Durango with a vertical cooler but it was quite different and had long hard lines running to it. I will have to check the other yard. Jonathan - That's good news! And, it fits with what I've been reading in the new links in the resources folder. In other words, there are lots and lots of different orientations for the reservoir, different return sizes, etc. But the basic pump is the same. So, it should be easy to find a combo that works. As for the cooler, I'm not in a hurry. But one of the Durango ones could work if hose barbs and hoses were used. Granted tubing would be better as it would help cool and wouldn't deteriorate due to the heat, but it is much harder to run. In any event, I am not in a hurry. So figure your part out and just keep and eye out for "the right thing" for me. And thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 There may be hope for me yet... I went to the junkyard and found a pump that is probably as good as it is going to get. The donor was a1986 Chevy/GM 6.2 diesel one ton dually with hydroboost and a remote reservoir type canister. It more or less fits into the space on the IDI bracket, but with the reservoir barb pointed up the shaft is not centered. This might be okay if I could find a slightly shorter belt. Otherwise, rotating the pump about 60* provides better centering as long as all the hoses still reach and clear. C2 pump for comparison For one, I will probably have to make my own adapter to get the clocking right. The horseshoe one from PSC is a crapshoot whether it will orient it the way I need. The other problem is the pulley. I grabbed one from a 1989 E150 straight six van. The offset is reflexed back toward the bracket compared to the IDI one and it just won't work. But one thing I learned today is just how many Saginaw pumps there are on GM and Dodge vehicles, so I have about a bazillion pulleys to choose from. I just need to find one with an offset that will work with my shaft stick out after an adapter thickness. The other problem is the remote reservoir. The donor's was MIA at the junkyard. I pulled one from a remote reservoir C20 van, but the barb and hose is considerably smaller. Not a huge deal, there is nothing esoteric about these. It's just a can. I can possibly modify this one if I can't find one with the right barb. One interesting thing is the hydroboost unit looks pretty much identical to the Ford one, and may be made with many of the same parts. It looks like the high pressure line from the Saginaw may bolt right on, with no need to have special hoses made. New ones are available on RockAuto for $15-20 range, way cheaper than what I did on my I-6. I will report back on this once I try to bolt it up. It routes over to the driver side instead of the passenger side but clears nicely. Gary, sorry I didn't find any hydroboost Silverado with two returns. There was only one Durango with a vertical cooler but it was quite different and had long hard lines running to it. I will have to check the other yard. No pictures just yet but I revisited the junkyard and found that the pulley on the V8 vans is different and may work. The Chevy pulleys were a good bit larger in diameter (the ones I checked, there are a bunch), and the Ford van one seems to have to have the flattest profile/ hub closest to the back edge of the pulley grooves. I also found another 6.2 Chevy diesel RV there and it had the reservoir with the bigger outlet. So that piece is found. I don't want to be pessimistic, but in case I just can't make this work I found a V belt IDI school bus and I grabbed the bracket and pulley. I'd hate to miss these and have to chase them down later. I guess the bracket may be the same as some 460's and possibly some of the Windsor's used it too, but I know this one's right. I found other things but I will talk about them in other threads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 No pictures just yet but I revisited the junkyard and found that the pulley on the V8 vans is different and may work. The Chevy pulleys were a good bit larger in diameter (the ones I checked, there are a bunch), and the Ford van one seems to have to have the flattest profile/ hub closest to the back edge of the pulley grooves. I also found another 6.2 Chevy diesel RV there and it had the reservoir with the bigger outlet. So that piece is found. I don't want to be pessimistic, but in case I just can't make this work I found a V belt IDI school bus and I grabbed the bracket and pulley. I'd hate to miss these and have to chase them down later. I guess the bracket may be the same as some 460's and possibly some of the Windsor's used it too, but I know this one's right. I found other things but I will talk about them in other threads... It is always good to have contingency plans, so getting the v-belt brackets was a good move in my book. As for pulleys, I'm thinking the offset will be somewhat critical, and that will vary with the amount of spacing you have from the bracket to the pump. So the pulley decision may be the last one to make. But, there probably aren't an infinite number of offsets available, so the pulley options have to be taken into account when determining the spacing. Anyway, good job on the reservoir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 It is always good to have contingency plans, so getting the v-belt brackets was a good move in my book. As for pulleys, I'm thinking the offset will be somewhat critical, and that will vary with the amount of spacing you have from the bracket to the pump. So the pulley decision may be the last one to make. But, there probably aren't an infinite number of offsets available, so the pulley options have to be taken into account when determining the spacing. Anyway, good job on the reservoir. The pulley spacing is everything. However, it is easy to adjust to the rear with spacers, so my goal was to find the most forward pulley I could find to give me the most forgiveness with adapter thickness etc., I think it can be "spaced" forward by not pressing the pulley completely on (as they talked about in the explorer thread) but I don't want to play that game if I don't have to and I wouldn't fudge it as much as that guy did. But if I need to shift it a little to get the right alignment/stand off I will do that. Flushing the tip of the hub to the tip of the shaft is somewhat arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 The pulley spacing is everything. However, it is easy to adjust to the rear with spacers, so my goal was to find the most forward pulley I could find to give me the most forgiveness with adapter thickness etc., I think it can be "spaced" forward by not pressing the pulley completely on (as they talked about in the explorer thread) but I don't want to play that game if I don't have to and I wouldn't fudge it as much as that guy did. But if I need to shift it a little to get the right alignment/stand off I will do that. Flushing the tip of the hub to the tip of the shaft is somewhat arbitrary. These may help a bit for V-belts, this is a Saginaw pump on a 1987 Chrysler LeBaron sedan 2.2L turbo engine. I have the pump here but will need to go dig it out if you need measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 The pulley spacing is everything. However, it is easy to adjust to the rear with spacers, so my goal was to find the most forward pulley I could find to give me the most forgiveness with adapter thickness etc., I think it can be "spaced" forward by not pressing the pulley completely on (as they talked about in the explorer thread) but I don't want to play that game if I don't have to and I wouldn't fudge it as much as that guy did. But if I need to shift it a little to get the right alignment/stand off I will do that. Flushing the tip of the hub to the tip of the shaft is somewhat arbitrary. One unfortunate thing about the 6.2 remote reservoir is that it is just a fill tank. It only has the outlet to the pump and no return to it so it does not circulate. Not a big real I suppose, it seems like something GM did on vehicles where the pump was difficult to access for maintaining the fluid level. It would be better though if it had a return and circulated through the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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