Hydroboost Planning

[Gary Lewis]

I know that Jonathan's done this, and Bill and I are planning on going with hydroboost. But I need to think through the pump situation.

I have the C2 pump and hydroboost setup, including the all-important pedal, that Jim pulled off of the '95 F450 for me. And Jonathan found me a Saginaw serpentine setup from a '90 E350. So I want to use the Sag but need to devise a 2nd return.

Bill says a dual-return tank is probably available for the Sag, but I've also read that brazing in a 2nd return is easy. Plus, I've seen others just put a tee in the return.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Gary Lewis]

There's some good info in this thread on the Expedition Portal. One point is that he uses a tee in the return, and he seems to have done this many times.

And this thread on FSB says two things significant:

• Mid '90s astro van has a saginaw pump with a remote reservoir setup. (Jonathan! )

• A Saginaw power steering pump for a 2004 Silverado 2500 bolts right up to the Econoline bracket and it has dual returns.

 

[Ford F834]

Gary, the very easiest thing is a brass T. It only costs a few bucks and it works. I know I've told you this, and it's in my build thread, but for other readers I just wanted to verify that this is a valid way to run the returns.

However, if you don't like the idea of a T and the extra joints, it's not terribly hard to braze or weld in a second return into the steel Saginaw reservoir. That's how Tom Lee of Lee's steering did it in Truck Trend magazine install of a Saginaw in a F550:

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1205-8l-power-steering-upgrade-1999-ford-f550/

As you mentioned, there are also applications that have dual returns already:

https://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1716

Only thing to remember is per Lee's steering article there are at least 50 different pumps and depending on how they are clocked they may or may not fit right in the bracket, or have the filler neck at an acceptable angle.

Gary, since I was doing the F150 on the cheap just to get it on the road, the T was the solution of choice. On my diesel I am wanting to do a third option that you have not covered yet... which is adding a filtration system with two inlets and one outlet:

For specific parts to do this look on page 10 of this article, post #99

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/7-1980-96-bronco-tech/174856-brake-hydroboost-upgrade-walk-throught-5.html#/topics/174856?page=10

This adds clutter, but does help the pump and booster live a longer life... just another option as if you didn't have enough choices to make!

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, the very easiest thing is a brass T. It only costs a few bucks and it works. I know I've told you this, and it's in my build thread, but for other readers I just wanted to verify that this is a valid way to run the returns.

However, if you don't like the idea of a T and the extra joints, it's not terribly hard to braze or weld in a second return into the steel Saginaw reservoir. That's how Tom Lee of Lee's steering did it in Truck Trend magazine install of a Saginaw in a F550:

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1205-8l-power-steering-upgrade-1999-ford-f550/

As you mentioned, there are also applications that have dual returns already:

https://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1716

Only thing to remember is per Lee's steering article there are at least 50 different pumps and depending on how they are clocked they may or may not fit right in the bracket, or have the filler neck at an acceptable angle.

Gary, since I was doing the F150 on the cheap just to get it on the road, the T was the solution of choice. On my diesel I am wanting to do a third option that you have not covered yet... which is adding a filtration system with two inlets and one outlet:

For specific parts to do this look on page 10 of this article, post #99

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/7-1980-96-bronco-tech/174856-brake-hydroboost-upgrade-walk-throught-5.html#/topics/174856?page=10

This adds clutter, but does help the pump and booster live a longer life... just another option as if you didn't have enough choices to make!

Jonathan - That is very good info.

But, the 2nd article seemed to say that in his application he was having back-pressure problems due to the tee. Apparently the tee or downstream hose/fittings weren't enough to handle all the flow?

I do like the filter and cooler. You said that things ran really hot on yours, so perhaps I should think about that. However, with the EFI air box and the power distribution box on the driver's fender I'm not sure where anything else could go.

Anyway, thanks. I'll keep reading and thinking.

[Ford F834]

Jonathan - That is very good info.

But, the 2nd article seemed to say that in his application he was having back-pressure problems due to the tee. Apparently the tee or downstream hose/fittings weren't enough to handle all the flow?

I do like the filter and cooler. You said that things ran really hot on yours, so perhaps I should think about that. However, with the EFI air box and the power distribution box on the driver's fender I'm not sure where anything else could go.

Anyway, thanks. I'll keep reading and thinking.

Gary, on the F550 he had a power steering rack. I think his flow was too high for the single return. I am certainly not an expert, but from the reading I've done that's what my impression is.

My high pressure line did get quite hot when I first installed the system. It still gets warm, but not like it did initially. I suspect that I had air in the lines and once it worked out the temperatures went down. I still want to run a cooler and a filter, since I could see things heating up during back country driving where you are braking and steering constantly without much air flow in the engine bay. But I admit I am conflicted. What I have in the '81 seems to work great. Adding a fin cooler and filter will add clutter as well as more joints to leak and hoses that can fail. On my '81 I may toss in an inline filter and call it a day. On the diesel I don't know yet. Might depend on the pump set up if I can work a remote reservoir into the mix...

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, on the F550 he had a power steering rack. I think his flow was too high for the single return. I am certainly not an expert, but from the reading I've done that's what my impression is.

My high pressure line did get quite hot when I first installed the system. It still gets warm, but not like it did initially. I suspect that I had air in the lines and once it worked out the temperatures went down. I still want to run a cooler and a filter, since I could see things heating up during back country driving where you are braking and steering constantly without much air flow in the engine bay. But I admit I am conflicted. What I have in the '81 seems to work great. Adding a fin cooler and filter will add clutter as well as more joints to leak and hoses that can fail. On my '81 I may toss in an inline filter and call it a day. On the diesel I don't know yet. Might depend on the pump set up if I can work a remote reservoir into the mix...

We are thinking alike. Back country, lots of turning and braking equals lots of heat. But, reliability goes down as the number of components goes up. And, as I said, things are going to be getting tight under that hood. We shall see.

Anyway, good to know yours has cooled down. And, that the tee is working fine.

[85lebaront2]

We are thinking alike. Back country, lots of turning and braking equals lots of heat. But, reliability goes down as the number of components goes up. And, as I said, things are going to be getting tight under that hood. We shall see.

Anyway, good to know yours has cooled down. And, that the tee is working fine.

Thoughts on the cooler, mine has the frame mounted loop, but for more, an auxiliary transmission cooler, either a factory one or aftermarket. I found this gem at Pick-n-Pull in Virginia beach, it mounts vertically in front of the radiator on a Dodge Durango and uses 3/8" ID hose that is crimped on to quick connect fittings.

[Gary Lewis]

Thoughts on the cooler, mine has the frame mounted loop, but for more, an auxiliary transmission cooler, either a factory one or aftermarket. I found this gem at Pick-n-Pull in Virginia beach, it mounts vertically in front of the radiator on a Dodge Durango and uses 3/8" ID hose that is crimped on to quick connect fittings.

This was the only transmission cooler the Durango had and it had the 4.7L V8 engine.

Bill - That looks like a good solution. I should have room on the passenger's side to put that cooler once I get the engine oil cooler turned up and moved to the driver's side.

[Ford F834]

Bill - That looks like a good solution. I should have room on the passenger's side to put that cooler once I get the engine oil cooler turned up and moved to the driver's side.

In the for what it's worth department, I pulled a small, finned power steering fluid cooler from a 1999 F250 SuperDuty. This truck did not have hydroboost, but I don't know about rack steering. Evidently Ford thought it was necessary for that application...

[85lebaront2]

In the for what it's worth department, I pulled a small, finned power steering fluid cooler from a 1999 F250 SuperDuty. This truck did not have hydroboost, but I don't know about rack steering. Evidently Ford thought it was necessary for that application...

My 1970 LTD and 1971 Colony Park, both with 429s had a small finned U shaped cooler mounted to the A/C compressor so it stuck down outside the belt area where plenty of air blew over it. I do not remember either of my Hydro-Boost GM Diesels having any kind of cooler installed.