Edelbrock on a stockish 460?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Changed my plugs/cap/rotor yesterday.

Other than burning oil in #7 the engine looks like it's very lean even though mileage has been deteriorating and it drives like it's fat until fully warmed up.

The truck has a six year old Holley 08457-s now, but due to current lack of shop, driveway, space, time and money I'm thinking to just swap it out.

Since both Gary and Bill are here I'm going to ask:

600 or 750?

AFB or AVS?

And why?

Want to keep stock aircleaner and an electric choke.(yes I know stator v/ 12V)

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gotta ask how high you'll rev it. The 600's I've used on 351's were good to at least 5500 RPM, but that's only 4,200 R's on a 460. And Tim strongly urged me to go 750 on Dad's since he's seen the vacuum come high enough with a 600 on a 400/408 to bring in the vaccum advance and cause all sorts of grief.

But, you also asked about AFB (Performer in Edelbrock speak) vs the AVS (Thunder). The AFB/Performer comes in 600 and 750 CFM varieties, but the Thunder comes in 650 and 800 CFM. The 650 might be enough on a 460 if you keep the R's down to 4,500 or so, and would obviously give better metering at part-throttle than the 800.

I prefer the AVS because of the ease of adjusting the point where the secondaries come in. On the AFB/Performer you have to completely disassemble the carb and grind weight off of, or add weight to, an arm that is buried inside the carb. On the AVS/Thunder you just put your Allen wrench in a screw, loosen the set screw, and then dial in more/less preload. However, I'll be honest and say that I've really not found a huge advantage in adjusting the point where the secondaries come in unless you are racing - and I know you aren't.

Well, I doubt I answered the questions, but the bottom line is I'd vote for a 650 Thunder or a 750 Performer. You can usually find a used Performer for about half of a Thunder, so....

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gotta ask how high you'll rev it. The 600's I've used on 351's were good to at least 5500 RPM, but that's only 4,200 R's on a 460. And Tim strongly urged me to go 750 on Dad's since he's seen the vacuum come high enough with a 600 on a 400/408 to bring in the vaccum advance and cause all sorts of grief.

But, you also asked about AFB (Performer in Edelbrock speak) vs the AVS (Thunder). The AFB/Performer comes in 600 and 750 CFM varieties, but the Thunder comes in 650 and 800 CFM. The 650 might be enough on a 460 if you keep the R's down to 4,500 or so, and would obviously give better metering at part-throttle than the 800.

I prefer the AVS because of the ease of adjusting the point where the secondaries come in. On the AFB/Performer you have to completely disassemble the carb and grind weight off of, or add weight to, an arm that is buried inside the carb. On the AVS/Thunder you just put your Allen wrench in a screw, loosen the set screw, and then dial in more/less preload. However, I'll be honest and say that I've really not found a huge advantage in adjusting the point where the secondaries come in unless you are racing - and I know you aren't.

Well, I doubt I answered the questions, but the bottom line is I'd vote for a 650 Thunder or a 750 Performer. You can usually find a used Performer for about half of a Thunder, so....

Well the "RV" cam in my engine is real crap on top.

5K and it begins to wheeze.

So I should be looking for a 650 to rebuild (because $ is an issue *always* it seems)

I don't want to cripple myself even though this Holley is a 600 where the stock 4180 was closer to 650.

I appreciate the tuning advice Gary.

If you ever find yourself confronted with Weber or SU's lmk....

Hopefully Bill will see this.

I guess I am the one to get the ball rolling. Lol

Recently I've replaced the diff cover, rear spring perches, bought a D60 (dually) axle, replaced the front rotors and hubs as part of a brake service, replaced the head pipe flange as part of a new muffler, put new tires on the back, got a *new* spare wheel and cleaned up the spare crossbar, and Idk how many other little tasks....

Where is the wdydtytt thread???

[Gary Lewis]

Well the "RV" cam in my engine is real crap on top.

5K and it begins to wheeze.

So I should be looking for a 650 to rebuild (because $ is an issue *always* it seems)

I don't want to cripple myself even though this Holley is a 600 where the stock 4180 was closer to 650.

I appreciate the tuning advice Gary.

If you ever find yourself confronted with Weber or SU's lmk....

Hopefully Bill will see this.

I guess I am the one to get the ball rolling. Lol

Recently I've replaced the diff cover, rear spring perches, bought a D60 (dually) axle, replaced the front rotors and hubs as part of a brake service, replaced the head pipe flange as part of a new muffler, put new tires on the back, got a *new* spare wheel and cleaned up the spare crossbar, and Idk how many other little tasks....

Where is the wdydtytt thread???

Oh ye of little faith! WHYDTYTT (FYI, to get a link to a thread or a post you need to copy the "permalink", not the URL.)

Anyway, if it runs out of air around 5k then a 650 may work. But let's see what Bill has to say. (Don't tell him, but he's forgotten more about carbs than I've ever known. )

[85lebaront2]

Well the "RV" cam in my engine is real crap on top.

5K and it begins to wheeze.

So I should be looking for a 650 to rebuild (because $ is an issue *always* it seems)

I don't want to cripple myself even though this Holley is a 600 where the stock 4180 was closer to 650.

I appreciate the tuning advice Gary.

If you ever find yourself confronted with Weber or SU's lmk....

Hopefully Bill will see this.

I guess I am the one to get the ball rolling. Lol

Recently I've replaced the diff cover, rear spring perches, bought a D60 (dually) axle, replaced the front rotors and hubs as part of a brake service, replaced the head pipe flange as part of a new muffler, put new tires on the back, got a *new* spare wheel and cleaned up the spare crossbar, and Idk how many other little tasks....

Where is the wdydtytt thread???

Jim, the stock Holley on the 460 was a 600 CFM unit, I would go with no more than 650 and I will make Gary Lewis happy, for easy of tuning (if you have the parts) the AFB is simpler that a Holley as the rods can be swapped from the top and isn't as prone to leaking. FWIW, the 430 ci 375 HP 1958 Lincoln engine used a 600 CFM Holley, that is where the R-1850 came from. If you can use either a YF choke cover or the original Holley one, 7 volts is fine, if not, a Bosch relay will pull in at 7 volts, I did it to charge my pickup camper battery on my 77 F-150.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim, the stock Holley on the 460 was a 600 CFM unit, I would go with no more than 650 and I will make Gary Lewis happy, for easy of tuning (if you have the parts) the AFB is simpler that a Holley as the rods can be swapped from the top and isn't as prone to leaking. FWIW, the 430 ci 375 HP 1958 Lincoln engine used a 600 CFM Holley, that is where the R-1850 came from. If you can use either a YF choke cover or the original Holley one, 7 volts is fine, if not, a Bosch relay will pull in at 7 volts, I did it to charge my pickup camper battery on my 77 F-150.

Imagine that - we agree on something!

And I agree the Bosch relay will pull in with the stator power, whatever the voltage and current orientation it is.

By the way, you have a sig. Looks familiar - I like it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gotta ask how high you'll rev it. The 600's I've used on 351's were good to at least 5500 RPM, but that's only 4,200 R's on a 460. And Tim strongly urged me to go 750 on Dad's since he's seen the vacuum come high enough with a 600 on a 400/408 to bring in the vaccum advance and cause all sorts of grief.

But, you also asked about AFB (Performer in Edelbrock speak) vs the AVS (Thunder). The AFB/Performer comes in 600 and 750 CFM varieties, but the Thunder comes in 650 and 800 CFM. The 650 might be enough on a 460 if you keep the R's down to 4,500 or so, and would obviously give better metering at part-throttle than the 800.

I prefer the AVS because of the ease of adjusting the point where the secondaries come in. On the AFB/Performer you have to completely disassemble the carb and grind weight off of, or add weight to, an arm that is buried inside the carb. On the AVS/Thunder you just put your Allen wrench in a screw, loosen the set screw, and then dial in more/less preload. However, I'll be honest and say that I've really not found a huge advantage in adjusting the point where the secondaries come in unless you are racing - and I know you aren't.

Well, I doubt I answered the questions, but the bottom line is I'd vote for a 650 Thunder or a 750 Performer. You can usually find a used Performer for about half of a Thunder, so....

I'm watching the used 1826 on Ebay.

Had to buy a new phone and a couple of gallons of epoxy and yards of carbon fiber this week!

That, plus the valve covers, lots of fuel +, +, +....

Don't know what position I'll be in when the auction closes.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm watching the used 1826 on Ebay.

Had to buy a new phone and a couple of gallons of epoxy and yards of carbon fiber this week!

That, plus the valve covers, lots of fuel +, +, +....

Don't know what position I'll be in when the auction closes.

Carbon fiber and epoxy? What are you making/repairing? I would have thought a boat would have had fiberglass and polyester.

Anyway, hope you get the carb. I think it'll be all the carb you need, and I'm curious to know what you think of it. Might be a touch lean as they are mainly used on small-blocks, but that's easily changed.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Carbon fiber and epoxy? What are you making/repairing? I would have thought a boat would have had fiberglass and polyester.

Anyway, hope you get the carb. I think it'll be all the carb you need, and I'm curious to know what you think of it. Might be a touch lean as they are mainly used on small-blocks, but that's easily changed.

It's the 1826 so it's jetted a little richer than the 'emission' carb.

Besides, carbs are supposed to meter fuel to air flowing through them, not "we're going to meter x amount of fuel for every second".

As long as the mains are big enough for my rpm limit it should be okay.

I'm replacing some floor, stringers and bulkheads in a rather rare little boat.

It's a Steve Stepp manufactured 22 Velocity Light Layup.

With the Mod VP on the back and the things being done it should break 90.

Polyester is good for a glass matrix but it is *not* an adhesive!

I need to bond and tab new structural members in place and get rid of the flex that cracked the old ones.

So i have some Biaxial and uni CF going into the laminate.

This motor was 350 in stock form, and it is NOT stock anymore.

If you want to bond *to* cured polyester, vinylester is a good choice, but I have epoxy (and know how to use it)

[Gary Lewis]

Carbon fiber and epoxy? What are you making/repairing? I would have thought a boat would have had fiberglass and polyester.

Anyway, hope you get the carb. I think it'll be all the carb you need, and I'm curious to know what you think of it. Might be a touch lean as they are mainly used on small-blocks, but that's easily changed.

It's the 1826 so it's jetted a little richer than the 'emission' carb.

Besides, carbs are supposed to meter fuel to air flowing through them, not "we're going to meter x amount of fuel for every second".

As long as the mains are big enough for my rpm limit it should be okay.

I'm replacing some floor, stringers and bulkheads in a rather rare little boat.

It's a Steve Stepp manufactured 22 Velocity Light Layup.

With the Mod VP on the back and the things being done it should break 90.

Polyester is good for a glass matrix but it is *not* an adhesive!

I need to bond and tab new structural members in place and get rid of the flex that cracked the old ones.

So i have some Biaxial and uni CF going into the laminate.

This motor was 350 in stock form, and it is NOT stock anymore.

If you want to bond *to* cured polyester, vinylester is a good choice, but I have epoxy (and know how to use it)

Yes, carbs meter fuel against the air flowing through them. But they aren't linear, so an increase in air might not get you the same AFR. But, if you are starting with the "performance" one then you should be good.

I'm not familiar with that boat, but did look it up. Wow! And 90 on the water is way faster than I've been.

As for bonding, you know far more about that than I do. My only somewhat similar work was on a Dorset cuddy cabin, exactly like the one below - in fact it had the same colors. When we bought it we didn't realize that fresh water had been between the hull and floor/sole and rot had started on the stringers. I contacted the guy that had been president of Dorset and he recommended that I remove the floor, media-blast the inside of the hull and stringers to remove the rot, and then lay 'glass against the hull and over the stringers, encapsulating them and creating a hat structure at the same time. I did and then replaced the floor and filled the hull with foam. Problem solved, and we loved the boat on lakes around here. However, we took it to Lake Powell and discovered that the shallow vee meant that it rode terribly on the big waves that boats throw there.