Dad's Truck Build

[1986F150Six]

This was a tiresome day. The "tired" came from rolling the truck back and forth several times in order to get it properly positioned between the lift legs. I finally got it there, but I'll confess that I failed on that many times.

I'd measure and know I needed to move the truck 2 1/2" left, and then work, work, work to get it over there, only to find that exactly 2 1/2" was way too far. Then I moved it the other way - and went too far. And I think I went too far back the other way.

But finally, probably by blind luck, I got it where there's ~2" of clearance between the rear lift arms and the frame, as shown below. (And, you can see my belt & braces approach to supporting the truck in front. There are jack stands under the big bolt on the TTB as well as a 2x4 under the tire. It isn't going anywhere. But more on that later.)

Once the truck was in position I set about getting the jack stands under it. In the front I measured the heads of the bolts that hold the radius arm to the TTB and found that they are about 1 3/8" in diameter. I wanted to bore a hole that size in a 2x4 and put that over the head of the bolt so that the truck wouldn't be sitting on the head of that bolt and potentially slide off. Instead, the weight will be on the radius arm instead. But, not having a drill bit that diameter I decided to bore a hole in a 2x4 that size.

I put the 2x4 in the vise, slipped the boring head into the spindle, and tightened the draw bar to pull the head into the taper. But, there was this sickening feel where the draw bar didn't tighten up. So I pulled the draw bar out and discovered the threads were stripped.

How could that be as I've used that boring head before. But, with a little bit of inspection I found that the draw bar is supposed to be threaded 7/16-20 but the boring head is threaded 7/16-14. Bummer!

After a bit of time on the phone with Grizzly I had another draw bar on order, but that left me with a boring head I couldn't use. So I welded the threads up, turned the thing down to .430", and ran a die down in. And along the way my Craftsman die cracked. But, it held together well enough to get the thing threaded and I got the job done. Now I have to paint the business end of that boring head red so I won't use it with the new draw bar when it comes in.

Ok, now that the truck is sitting on jack stands fore and aft, it was time to test the theory of lifting the cab with trimmed 2x4's in the "channel". Here's a pic that shows what I'm talking about, although that's just a little piece of 2x4 where two trimmed ones will be - along with some carpeting to protect the truck:

And, here's another view of the plan. But, there will be wood that spans the distance between those two arms so the force is spread over a very large area.

Any suggestions? Concerns?

No suggestions, just awe!

[Ford F834]

This was a tiresome day. The "tired" came from rolling the truck back and forth several times in order to get it properly positioned between the lift legs. I finally got it there, but I'll confess that I failed on that many times.

I'd measure and know I needed to move the truck 2 1/2" left, and then work, work, work to get it over there, only to find that exactly 2 1/2" was way too far. Then I moved it the other way - and went too far. And I think I went too far back the other way.

But finally, probably by blind luck, I got it where there's ~2" of clearance between the rear lift arms and the frame, as shown below. (And, you can see my belt & braces approach to supporting the truck in front. There are jack stands under the big bolt on the TTB as well as a 2x4 under the tire. It isn't going anywhere. But more on that later.)

Once the truck was in position I set about getting the jack stands under it. In the front I measured the heads of the bolts that hold the radius arm to the TTB and found that they are about 1 3/8" in diameter. I wanted to bore a hole that size in a 2x4 and put that over the head of the bolt so that the truck wouldn't be sitting on the head of that bolt and potentially slide off. Instead, the weight will be on the radius arm instead. But, not having a drill bit that diameter I decided to bore a hole in a 2x4 that size.

I put the 2x4 in the vise, slipped the boring head into the spindle, and tightened the draw bar to pull the head into the taper. But, there was this sickening feel where the draw bar didn't tighten up. So I pulled the draw bar out and discovered the threads were stripped.

How could that be as I've used that boring head before. But, with a little bit of inspection I found that the draw bar is supposed to be threaded 7/16-20 but the boring head is threaded 7/16-14. Bummer!

After a bit of time on the phone with Grizzly I had another draw bar on order, but that left me with a boring head I couldn't use. So I welded the threads up, turned the thing down to .430", and ran a die down in. And along the way my Craftsman die cracked. But, it held together well enough to get the thing threaded and I got the job done. Now I have to paint the business end of that boring head red so I won't use it with the new draw bar when it comes in.

Ok, now that the truck is sitting on jack stands fore and aft, it was time to test the theory of lifting the cab with trimmed 2x4's in the "channel". Here's a pic that shows what I'm talking about, although that's just a little piece of 2x4 where two trimmed ones will be - along with some carpeting to protect the truck:

And, here's another view of the plan. But, there will be wood that spans the distance between those two arms so the force is spread over a very large area.

Any suggestions? Concerns?

Gary, I’m not quite sure what you mean by a trimmed 2x4. Are you planning to use one on edge as shown in the pictures? If it were me I would use a length of 4x4 and notch out one edge so that it fit in the channel (my chanel measures 3-3/8” and a 4x4 should be 3-1/2” on a side. That would be more stable and less likely to topple. Maybe I am just paranoid but I wouldn’t like hoisting it on blocks that were wider than tall.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I’m not quite sure what you mean by a trimmed 2x4. Are you planning to use one on edge as shown in the pictures? If it were me I would use a length of 4x4 and notch out one edge so that it fit in the channel (my chanel measures 3-3/8” and a 4x4 should be 3-1/2” on a side. That would be more stable and less likely to topple. Maybe I am just paranoid but I wouldn’t like hoisting it on blocks that were wider than tall.

David - Good question. My intent is to use a full-sized 2x4 plus a trimmed-down one to give a total length of 34", width of ~2 3/4", and a height of at least 2 1/2". That length looks to be the max that the bottom of the floor of the cab is flat in the channel. The 2 3/4" is about the max width I think will go into the "channel", and the 2 1/2" will ensure the lift's arms hit the wood and not the truck.

So, to answer the question, the wood will be essentially as tall as it is wide, and won't have a chance of toppling.

As for prep for Monday, not much got done today. However, I did get two boxes in. The first had the new flywheel, and because of it I discovered that I was WRONG! I said that M-Block flywheels have 180 teeth like a 460's. But, this one came in with 164 teeth like a small-block, but was supposedly the right part number. So I went back to the catalogs.

Here's the entry from the 1980-89 truck MPC showing that the flexplate for Dad's truck is D1AZ 6375-A. But, it doesn't say boo about how many teeth.

So, I went to the 1973-79 truck MPC and found that the manual transmission has a 180-tooth flywheel. But nothing is said about the flexplate, although one would assume.....

Then I went to the 1973-79 car MPC and discovered that the flexplate has 164 teeth.

So now our flywheel page (Engines/Flywheels) has been updated to show the tooth-count on the M-Block engines.

And, I measured the OD and counted the teeth of the new M-Block flywheel as well as Huck's 460/E4OD flywheel: 14 3/16" & 164 teeth. So the next thing to do is to measure the offset of the two to ensure that while I have the back of the crank on the M-Block the same distance off the block as the 460's, I want to make sure that the ring gear will be exactly where it should be and, therefore, I can use a 460's starter.

But, that raises questions about what starter to use on a manual-transmissioned truck. An auto has a 164-tooth flexplate and a manual has a 180-toothed flywheel?

[Gary Lewis]

David - Good question. My intent is to use a full-sized 2x4 plus a trimmed-down one to give a total length of 34", width of ~2 3/4", and a height of at least 2 1/2". That length looks to be the max that the bottom of the floor of the cab is flat in the channel. The 2 3/4" is about the max width I think will go into the "channel", and the 2 1/2" will ensure the lift's arms hit the wood and not the truck.

So, to answer the question, the wood will be essentially as tall as it is wide, and won't have a chance of toppling.

As for prep for Monday, not much got done today. However, I did get two boxes in. The first had the new flywheel, and because of it I discovered that I was WRONG! I said that M-Block flywheels have 180 teeth like a 460's. But, this one came in with 164 teeth like a small-block, but was supposedly the right part number. So I went back to the catalogs.

Here's the entry from the 1980-89 truck MPC showing that the flexplate for Dad's truck is D1AZ 6375-A. But, it doesn't say boo about how many teeth.

So, I went to the 1973-79 truck MPC and found that the manual transmission has a 180-tooth flywheel. But nothing is said about the flexplate, although one would assume.....

Then I went to the 1973-79 car MPC and discovered that the flexplate has 164 teeth.

So now our flywheel page (Engines/Flywheels) has been updated to show the tooth-count on the M-Block engines.

And, I measured the OD and counted the teeth of the new M-Block flywheel as well as Huck's 460/E4OD flywheel: 14 3/16" & 164 teeth. So the next thing to do is to measure the offset of the two to ensure that while I have the back of the crank on the M-Block the same distance off the block as the 460's, I want to make sure that the ring gear will be exactly where it should be and, therefore, I can use a 460's starter.

But, that raises questions about what starter to use on a manual-transmissioned truck. An auto has a 164-tooth flexplate and a manual has a 180-toothed flywheel?

David, as well as all y'all - I've rethought the plan on the wood. I think I'll notch one of the 2x4's as shown below, then screw the two together. That way there's more base width and less chance to tip.

And, I can probably do it on the mill, which means I won't have to bring the table saw down from the attic.

Thoughts?

[Ford F834]

David, as well as all y'all - I've rethought the plan on the wood. I think I'll notch one of the 2x4's as shown below, then screw the two together. That way there's more base width and less chance to tip.

And, I can probably do it on the mill, which means I won't have to bring the table saw down from the attic.

Thoughts?

Gary, that’s exactly what I was thinking of, but starting with a 4x4 so you don’t have to join anything. Maybe I didn’t explain it well... but screwing two 2x4’s together will give you the same result. 👍

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, that’s exactly what I was thinking of, but starting with a 4x4 so you don’t have to join anything. Maybe I didn’t explain it well... but screwing two 2x4’s together will give you the same result. 👍

I routinely use 2x4's around the shop, but not 4x4's. Like yesterday when I was rolling the truck around there was one spot where it didn't want to stay so I tossed a chuck of 2x4 in front of the tire. Problem solved. So this way I'll have lots to chop up for whatever I need.

And, while I'm accused of never throwing anything away, there's a reason for that - I'll need it some day. Sure enough, the left over 6" wide strip of marine carpet I used on the boat trailer bunks will be perfect to put over the top of the wood. That way nothing will stick to the undercoating and peel it off.

This is what I hope to get done, along with some more cleaning, tomorrow. We shall see.

[Steve83]

But, that raises questions about what starter to use on a manual-transmissioned truck. An auto has a 164-tooth flexplate and a manual has a 180-toothed flywheel?

One of my early jobs was rebuilding starters & alternators. If you can't find that starter, any decent shop should be able to build a starter the way you need.

[ArdWrknTrk]

David - Good question. My intent is to use a full-sized 2x4 plus a trimmed-down one to give a total length of 34", width of ~2 3/4", and a height of at least 2 1/2". That length looks to be the max that the bottom of the floor of the cab is flat in the channel. The 2 3/4" is about the max width I think will go into the "channel", and the 2 1/2" will ensure the lift's arms hit the wood and not the truck.

So, to answer the question, the wood will be essentially as tall as it is wide, and won't have a chance of toppling.

As for prep for Monday, not much got done today. However, I did get two boxes in. The first had the new flywheel, and because of it I discovered that I was WRONG! I said that M-Block flywheels have 180 teeth like a 460's. But, this one came in with 164 teeth like a small-block, but was supposedly the right part number. So I went back to the catalogs.

Here's the entry from the 1980-89 truck MPC showing that the flexplate for Dad's truck is D1AZ 6375-A. But, it doesn't say boo about how many teeth.

So, I went to the 1973-79 truck MPC and found that the manual transmission has a 180-tooth flywheel. But nothing is said about the flexplate, although one would assume.....

Then I went to the 1973-79 car MPC and discovered that the flexplate has 164 teeth.

So now our flywheel page (Engines/Flywheels) has been updated to show the tooth-count on the M-Block engines.

And, I measured the OD and counted the teeth of the new M-Block flywheel as well as Huck's 460/E4OD flywheel: 14 3/16" & 164 teeth. So the next thing to do is to measure the offset of the two to ensure that while I have the back of the crank on the M-Block the same distance off the block as the 460's, I want to make sure that the ring gear will be exactly where it should be and, therefore, I can use a 460's starter.

But, that raises questions about what starter to use on a manual-transmissioned truck. An auto has a 164-tooth flexplate and a manual has a 180-toothed flywheel?

Lester 3225 for a flywheel.

The autos take a 3226

Hth

[Gary Lewis]

Lester 3225 for a flywheel.

The autos take a 3226

Hth

Steve - Thanks, but one of my goals is that my offspring won't have to have things made for the truck, so I'm really hoping that a starter for a 460 auto will work. And, my thinking is that the only thing that would prevent that would be if the flexplates have different offset. So one goal for today is to prove that the have the same offset.

Jim - Thanks. That does help, but I think those are starter numbers not flywheel numbers. At least that's what I found when I googled those numbers. In fact, here's the DB Electrical #3226, and it says it is the mini-starter for a 460 automatic. In fact, that's probably the starter I'll buy for Dad's truck.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Steve - Thanks, but one of my goals is that my offspring won't have to have things made for the truck, so I'm really hoping that a starter for a 460 auto will work. And, my thinking is that the only thing that would prevent that would be if the flexplates have different offset. So one goal for today is to prove that the have the same offset.

Jim - Thanks. That does help, but I think those are starter numbers not flywheel numbers. At least that's what I found when I googled those numbers. In fact, here's the DB Electrical #3226, and it says it is the mini-starter for a 460 automatic. In fact, that's probably the starter I'll buy for Dad's truck.

I'm sorry Gary.

Yes those are starter numbers.

From what Steve quoted above I thought you were asking which starter to use for a flywheel v/s an automatic.

It's my understanding that 460's weren't available with a clutch before the 1983 model year.

Although some 429 powered muscle cars obviously had manual gearboxes.

Not sure what those '70's Mustangs, Cougars and Torinos used for a flywheel.

I remember having a heck of a time diving deep into starter gears and tooth counts when I swapped a Zf into my truck.

As a data point, the cheap Chinese starter from DB seems to be as going strong, despite the bad tolerance of my aftermarket Dorman flywheel.