Frank Wyatt Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I've spent the last couple of days reminiscing as I pull together the bits and pieces of information regarding Dad's truck. The document in the first post of this thread is coming together, and I now know where to go for some of the info. I now know that I took the truck to one paint/body man on 4/21/2013 and got it back, unfinished but paid for, on 10-2-2013. Then it went to the next paint/body man on 1/15/2014 and came back, in stunning fashion, on 3/17/2016. Similarly I'm discovering other mis-steps, like the upholstery job that was to cry for. The transfer case that was rebuilt, with lots of mod's, but which uses linkage that goes through the floor - and I don't want to cut the floor, so will use it in Big Blue. The transmission that was completely rebuilt but will also go to Big Blue. However, there are lots and lots of good memories as well. The dyno session with Tim Meyer for instance. And the help so many people have given me to sort out problems or provide parts. All in all, it has been a fun trip. The document is no where near ready for prime time, but at least I have a start. So read it if you want, but feedback on the method is more needed than the content. Your method on the document your doing is looking great to me. On the truck all I can say is WOW. It's going to be a knock out once you get it complete. You must have many many hours spent on it so far with many more left to do. Congrats to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 The transfer case that was rebuilt, with lots of mod's, but which uses linkage that goes through the floor - and I don't want to cut the floor, so will use it in Big Blue. Gary, I think you can use the later transfer case with the Bullnose shifter and linkage and you DON’T have to cut the floor. The main difference is that the Bullnose era transfer cases have the lever pointing down, and the bricknose and later have the lever pointing up. When you put the Bullnose shifter on the later transfer case it does mash the lever too far forward in 2H, but it does work. Lengthening the linkage rod would fix that... and would be a lot easier than cutting a hole in the floor to retrofit the shifter that goes in the side of the tunnel. I never got around to lengthening mine, and I’ve just been living with it, but it wouldn’t be hard to fix. Granted mine is just a late model 1345 vs. early model 1345, but it did come from a bricknose truck with a side shifter and from what I can tell the 1356 looks identical to the late 1345’s in the way the lever on the side of the case is oriented (pointing up). Check into it, even if you end up using it in Big Blue. It should still save you time trying to convert to the newer shifter. And different tunnel cover and carpet etc., ^^^1982 Bullnose 1345^^^ ^^^1989 Bricknose 1345^^^ (Using 1982 shifter/linkages) ^^^Shifter in 2H/Bricknose T-case^^^ ^^^1356 note lever position^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 The transfer case that was rebuilt, with lots of mod's, but which uses linkage that goes through the floor - and I don't want to cut the floor, so will use it in Big Blue. Gary, I think you can use the later transfer case with the Bullnose shifter and linkage and you DON’T have to cut the floor. The main difference is that the Bullnose era transfer cases have the lever pointing down, and the bricknose and later have the lever pointing up. When you put the Bullnose shifter on the later transfer case it does mash the lever too far forward in 2H, but it does work. Lengthening the linkage rod would fix that... and would be a lot easier than cutting a hole in the floor to retrofit the shifter that goes in the side of the tunnel. I never got around to lengthening mine, and I’ve just been living with it, but it wouldn’t be hard to fix. Granted mine is just a late model 1345 vs. early model 1345, but it did come from a bricknose truck with a side shifter and from what I can tell the 1356 looks identical to the late 1345’s in the way the lever on the side of the case is oriented (pointing up). Check into it, even if you end up using it in Big Blue. It should still save you time trying to convert to the newer shifter. And different tunnel cover and carpet etc., ^^^1982 Bullnose 1345^^^ ^^^1989 Bricknose 1345^^^ (Using 1982 shifter/linkages) ^^^Shifter in 2H/Bricknose T-case^^^ ^^^1356 note lever position^^^ White Knight - Thanks! The documentation approach is something for which I've been looking for quite a while. I knew that the vast number of posts in the large number of threads was going to make it difficult to figure out what I'd done. So now I have a way to gradually sort through the various threads and glean the bits that I want to save. As for the truck, thanks also. I do have countless hours in it and really do need to change how it is insured. No one would pay for what I've got in it, but still.... Jonathan - Thanks much for that! I'll probably then install the 1356 on Dad's truck as the engine and tranny go in, and sort out the linkage issue later. I already know one way to make an adjustable linkage. But, does the up vs down linkage not change the shift pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 But, does the up vs down linkage not change the shift pattern? Double check your 1356, but no, it didn’t on my Bricknose 1345... and I think the shifters all have the same pattern. I thought I would have that problem but evidently it shifts with counter clockwise rotation instead of clockwise. I got lucky as it never even occurred to me when I was pulling it. It also has a longer input spline “snout” than the 1982 unit, so there were some strength improvements made also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 But, does the up vs down linkage not change the shift pattern? Double check your 1356, but no, it didn’t on my Bricknose 1345... and I think the shifters all have the same pattern. I thought I would have that problem but evidently it shifts with counter clockwise rotation instead of clockwise. I got lucky as it never even occurred to me when I was pulling it. It also has a longer input spline “snout” than the 1982 unit, so there were some strength improvements made also. Good to know. Thanks. Hmmm, if the 1356 is stronger then should it go in Big Blue with the 460? But, that would mean his 1345 has to be rebuilt and painted, and that means it can't be installed when the tranny goes in. And it would sure be nice to install the t-case from the top when the cab is on the lift. Plus, I could then install the drive shafts. Oh wait! The E4OD is several inches longer, so the drive shafts will have to be redone. Hmmm, maybe I should put them in Big Blue and buy new ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Good to know. Thanks. Hmmm, if the 1356 is stronger then should it go in Big Blue with the 460? But, that would mean his 1345 has to be rebuilt and painted, and that means it can't be installed when the tranny goes in. And it would sure be nice to install the t-case from the top when the cab is on the lift. Plus, I could then install the drive shafts. Oh wait! The E4OD is several inches longer, so the drive shafts will have to be redone. Hmmm, maybe I should put them in Big Blue and buy new ones? I keep hearing this... that the 1356 is stronger... but is it? I know it has a magnesium case instead of aluminum and the chain is supposedly beefier... but it has a rear slip yoke which is weaker and more prone to wear and problems. The failures that I am aware of for both the 1345 and 1356 had to to with the pump anchor chewing through the slot in the case. Personally I wouldn’t rate the 1345 as inferior in terms of strength. I have read that the 1356 shifts more smoothly on the fly, but I have never had a truck with one in it so I have no idea if that is true or enough of a difference to care about. I like the 1345 minus the unobtainable speedometer gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 White Knight - Thanks! The documentation approach is something for which I've been looking for quite a while. I knew that the vast number of posts in the large number of threads was going to make it difficult to figure out what I'd done. So now I have a way to gradually sort through the various threads and glean the bits that I want to save. As for the truck, thanks also. I do have countless hours in it and really do need to change how it is insured. No one would pay for what I've got in it, but still.... Jonathan - Thanks much for that! I'll probably then install the 1356 on Dad's truck as the engine and tranny go in, and sort out the linkage issue later. I already know one way to make an adjustable linkage. But, does the up vs down linkage not change the shift pattern? When I swapped the '91 Zf5 and 1356 into my truck I had to use the linkage from the old T-19 to avoid cutting. I also didn't have the boot or shift stick from the '91. The linkage was a direct swap. If the E4OD is much longer you may need a linkage specific to it. Certainly you need to extend it. But IDK if the mounting bosses are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 When I swapped the '91 Zf5 and 1356 into my truck I had to use the linkage from the old T-19 to avoid cutting. I also didn't have the boot or shift stick from the '91. The linkage was a direct swap. If the E4OD is much longer you may need a linkage specific to it. Certainly you need to extend it. But IDK if the mounting bosses are the same. Jonathan - I thought you said the snout is longer and that there may be other strength improvements on th 1356. I don't know. But here's what I found back in July of 2015, as posted here on FTE: (I'm really liking having the index of what's been done on the truck!) The opinions vary from some who say the 1356 is just a bit stronger than the 208 to those who say it is much stronger - but no one anywhere says the 208 is better. Those who say it is just a bit stronger include two of the pro's I've talked to here in Tulsa, but they both did say the 1356 is the better of the two as it has an updated planetary design and an oil pump. And David at Harmon's said if he were doing it on his "baby" he'd do the 1356. Jim - The E4 is several inches longer, so I will surely have to get creative on the linkage. But, if I can use the original linkage and modify w/o cutting the floor then that may be the way to go. And, y'all, I forgot that I got the driveshafts with Huck, which is where the E4OD itself came from. So I should be good painting them and replacing the u-joints to use them on Dad's truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Jonathan - I thought you said the snout is longer and that there may be other strength improvements on th 1356. I don't know. But here's what I found back in July of 2015, as posted here on FTE: (I'm really liking having the index of what's been done on the truck!) The opinions vary from some who say the 1356 is just a bit stronger than the 208 to those who say it is much stronger - but no one anywhere says the 208 is better. Those who say it is just a bit stronger include two of the pro's I've talked to here in Tulsa, but they both did say the 1356 is the better of the two as it has an updated planetary design and an oil pump. And David at Harmon's said if he were doing it on his "baby" he'd do the 1356. Jim - The E4 is several inches longer, so I will surely have to get creative on the linkage. But, if I can use the original linkage and modify w/o cutting the floor then that may be the way to go. And, y'all, I forgot that I got the driveshafts with Huck, which is where the E4OD itself came from. So I should be good painting them and replacing the u-joints to use them on Dad's truck. Gary your quote is comparing the 1356 to the 208... and I would agree that the 1356 is a lot beefier than a 208... but much less different than a 1345. The input snout difference I was referring to was actually 1982 BW1345 vs 1989 BW1345, but the late 1345 input snout looks just like a 1356... Unless someone chimes in with a considerable driveability advantage of the 1356 shifting characteristics (that might influence your decision), I would chose the already built one for Dad’s just because it is upgraded and ready to go. Either transfer case should be plenty strong for either truck, I would think. I am getting ready to throw north of 800 ft. lbs. of torque at mine... (1986 BW1345) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 Gary your quote is comparing the 1356 to the 208... and I would agree that the 1356 is a lot beefier than a 208... but much less different than a 1345. The input snout difference I was referring to was actually 1982 BW1345 vs 1989 BW1345, but the late 1345 input snout looks just like a 1356... Unless someone chimes in with a considerable driveability advantage of the 1356 shifting characteristics (that might influence your decision), I would chose the already built one for Dad’s just because it is upgraded and ready to go. Either transfer case should be plenty strong for either truck, I would think. I am getting ready to throw north of 800 ft. lbs. of torque at mine... (1986 BW1345) Jonathan - You are right, it was comparing the 208 to the 1356. I didn't know the 1345 and 1356 were so similar. So, that makes the decision easier. What I'd like to do is to install the t-case while the cab is in the air as I'm pretty sure I can manhandle it into place w/o having to use the tranny jack. That'll make it much easier as getting a t-case on the tranny jack at the right angle isn't the easiest thing to do, and it is even harder to do if you are trying hard not to scratch the paint. And, playing with the linkage will be much easier with the cab in the air. Plus, I can test-fit the driveshafts and, assuming they fit as they surely will, then I can refurb them and install them. Sounds like a plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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