Fuel Injection upgrade

[Rusty_S85]

See what you think of TSB 88-05-14.

So that is exactly what I have heard mentioned before that so many people complained about the oil pressure gauge reading on the low side of normal when they expect it to ride on the high side so the fix was a new sender that operates more like a on off switch like with an indiciator light that would put the pressure gauge in the middle to comfort the people.

Looks like the sender they used is E6SZ-9278-A which is not the number of the sender that I ordered. It also seems like this fix only applies to the 87 and up trucks not the 80-86 truck.

Hopefully it reads and works like a regular gauge sender and not the later on-off switch sender. This is only going to be a temporary setup till I can get Dakota Digital to offer a retro cluster for our trucks. I have plans to get a sniper to dakota digital module where my temp gauge will run off the sniper temp sensor, rpm will be off the sniper rpm signal, etc. I also want to use a module for air fuel ratio and fuel pressure that way I can have it throw a warning up on the dakota digital cluster to inform me when my O2 sensor fails by going full rich as well as warning me when the fuel pressure falls outside of the 55 to 65 psi pressure range. That way I can diagnosis my sniper on the road without the hand held. If I see no tach movement when cranking then I know the sniper has lost rpm signal for example and is why its not starting.

Did a little work today, had to order more fasteners cause ARP just doesnt know how to make packaged sets.

First off I installed the thermostat housing with the Motorad Failproof 195*F thermostat but only one bolt is loosely holding it in place, the ARP thermostat bolt set came with 2 bolts both the same length and one of them needs to be 1 1/2" in under head length which will be around 1 7/16" under head length with the washer. The set only came with 1" bolts strangely, I got another set ordered from summit. Only people to have them in stock so it was $12.99 for the 5 pack of fasteners and $11.99 with the shipping which is insane but what can I say, I usually buy when its over $100 to get free shipping but Summit just doesnt have anything else I need. They dont have a HD flexplate for my C6, they dont have any OE dipstick tubes, they dont have any OE block plates, they did have OE style coil strap mounts but they dont have the extra metal piece for the capacitor to bolt to. I plan on keeping all the capacitors I can to ensure I dont get any kind of interference on my sniper.

I also mocked up the new distributor to make sure the sniper temp sensor will fit properly and its close but it should work. I also found out for some reason the distributor wont fully seat. I think it has to do with the drive shaft for the oil pump, if I rotate the rotor out of where it needs to be I can tap it with a adjustable hammer to almost fully seat but still doesnt. I think the clamp may pull it the rest of the way down. But I dont want to do this as I still have to send the distributor out to have the thing recurved.

I got the motor mounts bolted up to the engine as well, I got the top of the line brand wise and I am glad I did, they cost me some $7.99 a piece and they have got to be the best looking mounts. They were packaged in each box with two puff bags of air for packing. The black paint on them was nice and shiny almost show car quality. I ended up getting the ARP engine mount bolts to 45 ft lbs and left it there. Lots of people swear those 7/16" coarse threaded bolts should be at 50 ft lbs min but I just couldnt get it there and said screw it. That bolt isnt going anywhere at 45 ft lbs.

I also mocked up the headers as well to see fitment and if the black paint looks good to help decide what color to ceramic coat the headers. Sad to say the header on the driver side wont fit. The tube for Cylinder 5 is smashed up against the cylinder head holding the flange off the head on the bottom side. I have two choices, I emailed Cradin Industires who will be doing my ceramic coating that is based out by Austin. I asked him if he has the ability to tweak the header tube as the tube nearer the collector side needs to be tweaked inward towards the other tubes and it should give me clearance. I am hopeful he is able to do the tweaking cause I am sure there wont be tube distortion. If he cant do it my only choice is to mark the header take it off and take it to work and heat it with a torch and ding it in with a ball peen hammer for shaping and a 2lb sledge hammer for striking. This I prefer not to do as it will collapse the tube on just that cylinder. Only other option besides this would be to try and source long tube headers that will fit and forgo the OE style exhaust and have a shop make the exhaust for me. I prefer not to do this as I just know I am going to get the cops called on me running as well as driving the truck to the exhaust shop.

I do have some things on my list to resolve how ever. I need to find a OE throttle cable bracket, OE part number has been bringing up nothing on line including ebay. I also am still looking for the coil mounting strap I think its E1TZ-12043-A DY318 and I havent been able to find a hit on this either. Then there is the dipstick and tube assembly. Then I am waiting on someone to get back with me from the holley forum or from holley directly on what the inlet fitting size is that threads into the sniper 4150 stealth. The one that have is too long and gives me no room to bend a 90* to clear the ignition coil so I need to source shorter fittings. I also am trying to decide what clamps to use for my heater hose and bypass hose. Part of me wants to still use the spring clamps as they constantly get tighter as the rubber hose shrinks but I dont know if you can get to them on the bypass without pulling everything else off the engine. Im trying to think long term service and if I ever have to replace this bypass hose I wouldnt want to have to strip the whole front of the engine down to get to the clamps. I think conventional screw clamps would probably be the best. Then there is the problem with what brand to get cause lots of screw clamps today are junk and strip out easily.

Now for the photos.

This is the Cardone brand new distributor that is for the DSII foxbody mustang with the roller cam. This is the one I will be sending out to have recurved. I have a NOS blue cap adapter and I will have to modify the harness on the new distributor to make the NOS cap fit. I am not sure if I want to do that I am thinking about instead trying to match the type of blue in paint form and just painting the cap adapter blue or just simply leave it black. After all if I go with full timing control later on the holley distributor is a small cap distributor that is all black with a billet silver housing.

Showing how close the Sniper temp sensor is to the distributor. Hopefully the distributor doesnt introduce RFI into the coolant temp sensor circuit.

And the header mocked up which has me deciding to go with the black ceramic coat.

And where tube for cylinder 5 is smashed against the cylinder head but can see there is a good gap where this tube can be moved towards the cylinder 6 tube and should get me clearance. This is without gaskets mounted so the gaskets will give me a little but not enough to resolve that.

And the passenger side where the tubes are a mile away from the head. I dont know why the made the driver side tubes so close. Its not like the gear box sits there the gear box is more forward.

Up side is that all the spark plugs are easily accessible and the Ford Motorsport 9mm plug wires I have will fit nicely without burning on the headers.

Now I just have to wait for the bolt I need for the thermostat to come in so I can bolt that on fully, need to decide on hose clamps and order some so I can install the bypass hose. Next sunday on the 31st I should have a notification of my pushrods shipping from manley so first week of November I should be installing them and setting lifter preload and doing a pressure check of the oil system as well as checking for proper lubrication on every pushrod. I think 2 quarts of break in oil should be enough for this pressure testing of the lubrication system. It will help keep the weight down as I plan on stabbing the engine complete minus accessory brackets and pulleys.

[Gary Lewis]

Did a little work today, had to order more fasteners cause ARP just doesnt know how to make packaged sets.

First off I installed the thermostat housing with the Motorad Failproof 195*F thermostat but only one bolt is loosely holding it in place, the ARP thermostat bolt set came with 2 bolts both the same length and one of them needs to be 1 1/2" in under head length which will be around 1 7/16" under head length with the washer. The set only came with 1" bolts strangely, I got another set ordered from summit. Only people to have them in stock so it was $12.99 for the 5 pack of fasteners and $11.99 with the shipping which is insane but what can I say, I usually buy when its over $100 to get free shipping but Summit just doesnt have anything else I need. They dont have a HD flexplate for my C6, they dont have any OE dipstick tubes, they dont have any OE block plates, they did have OE style coil strap mounts but they dont have the extra metal piece for the capacitor to bolt to. I plan on keeping all the capacitors I can to ensure I dont get any kind of interference on my sniper.

I also mocked up the new distributor to make sure the sniper temp sensor will fit properly and its close but it should work. I also found out for some reason the distributor wont fully seat. I think it has to do with the drive shaft for the oil pump, if I rotate the rotor out of where it needs to be I can tap it with a adjustable hammer to almost fully seat but still doesnt. I think the clamp may pull it the rest of the way down. But I dont want to do this as I still have to send the distributor out to have the thing recurved.

I got the motor mounts bolted up to the engine as well, I got the top of the line brand wise and I am glad I did, they cost me some $7.99 a piece and they have got to be the best looking mounts. They were packaged in each box with two puff bags of air for packing. The black paint on them was nice and shiny almost show car quality. I ended up getting the ARP engine mount bolts to 45 ft lbs and left it there. Lots of people swear those 7/16" coarse threaded bolts should be at 50 ft lbs min but I just couldnt get it there and said screw it. That bolt isnt going anywhere at 45 ft lbs.

I also mocked up the headers as well to see fitment and if the black paint looks good to help decide what color to ceramic coat the headers. Sad to say the header on the driver side wont fit. The tube for Cylinder 5 is smashed up against the cylinder head holding the flange off the head on the bottom side. I have two choices, I emailed Cradin Industires who will be doing my ceramic coating that is based out by Austin. I asked him if he has the ability to tweak the header tube as the tube nearer the collector side needs to be tweaked inward towards the other tubes and it should give me clearance. I am hopeful he is able to do the tweaking cause I am sure there wont be tube distortion. If he cant do it my only choice is to mark the header take it off and take it to work and heat it with a torch and ding it in with a ball peen hammer for shaping and a 2lb sledge hammer for striking. This I prefer not to do as it will collapse the tube on just that cylinder. Only other option besides this would be to try and source long tube headers that will fit and forgo the OE style exhaust and have a shop make the exhaust for me. I prefer not to do this as I just know I am going to get the cops called on me running as well as driving the truck to the exhaust shop.

I do have some things on my list to resolve how ever. I need to find a OE throttle cable bracket, OE part number has been bringing up nothing on line including ebay. I also am still looking for the coil mounting strap I think its E1TZ-12043-A DY318 and I havent been able to find a hit on this either. Then there is the dipstick and tube assembly. Then I am waiting on someone to get back with me from the holley forum or from holley directly on what the inlet fitting size is that threads into the sniper 4150 stealth. The one that have is too long and gives me no room to bend a 90* to clear the ignition coil so I need to source shorter fittings. I also am trying to decide what clamps to use for my heater hose and bypass hose. Part of me wants to still use the spring clamps as they constantly get tighter as the rubber hose shrinks but I dont know if you can get to them on the bypass without pulling everything else off the engine. Im trying to think long term service and if I ever have to replace this bypass hose I wouldnt want to have to strip the whole front of the engine down to get to the clamps. I think conventional screw clamps would probably be the best. Then there is the problem with what brand to get cause lots of screw clamps today are junk and strip out easily.

Now for the photos.

This is the Cardone brand new distributor that is for the DSII foxbody mustang with the roller cam. This is the one I will be sending out to have recurved. I have a NOS blue cap adapter and I will have to modify the harness on the new distributor to make the NOS cap fit. I am not sure if I want to do that I am thinking about instead trying to match the type of blue in paint form and just painting the cap adapter blue or just simply leave it black. After all if I go with full timing control later on the holley distributor is a small cap distributor that is all black with a billet silver housing.

Showing how close the Sniper temp sensor is to the distributor. Hopefully the distributor doesnt introduce RFI into the coolant temp sensor circuit.

And the header mocked up which has me deciding to go with the black ceramic coat.

And where tube for cylinder 5 is smashed against the cylinder head but can see there is a good gap where this tube can be moved towards the cylinder 6 tube and should get me clearance. This is without gaskets mounted so the gaskets will give me a little but not enough to resolve that.

And the passenger side where the tubes are a mile away from the head. I dont know why the made the driver side tubes so close. Its not like the gear box sits there the gear box is more forward.

Up side is that all the spark plugs are easily accessible and the Ford Motorsport 9mm plug wires I have will fit nicely without burning on the headers.

Now I just have to wait for the bolt I need for the thermostat to come in so I can bolt that on fully, need to decide on hose clamps and order some so I can install the bypass hose. Next sunday on the 31st I should have a notification of my pushrods shipping from manley so first week of November I should be installing them and setting lifter preload and doing a pressure check of the oil system as well as checking for proper lubrication on every pushrod. I think 2 quarts of break in oil should be enough for this pressure testing of the lubrication system. It will help keep the weight down as I plan on stabbing the engine complete minus accessory brackets and pulleys.

Wow! That was a "mouthful"! But you are making progress working out all the details.

The issue with the distributor would bother me. It should drop down fully, and if you pull it down with the clamp you may cause a problem. I assume you've rotated the engine? I've seen them refuse to drop down until the engine was turned.

And I think you will have to heat the #5 exhaust tube and bend it. How would the other guy know how much to bend it?

On the color, black radiates the most heat possible. I chose the lightest color I could get to keep the heat in the pipes, and to prevent heating under the hood as much as possible.

[Rusty_S85]

Wow! That was a "mouthful"! But you are making progress working out all the details.

The issue with the distributor would bother me. It should drop down fully, and if you pull it down with the clamp you may cause a problem. I assume you've rotated the engine? I've seen them refuse to drop down until the engine was turned.

And I think you will have to heat the #5 exhaust tube and bend it. How would the other guy know how much to bend it?

On the color, black radiates the most heat possible. I chose the lightest color I could get to keep the heat in the pipes, and to prevent heating under the hood as much as possible.

See thats the thing, even when I rotate the rotor and get it where it falls on the oil pump drive shaft it doesnt easily drop all the way down. I have to tap it down and tap it up to get it off I dont know if its fitting tight on the block if I need to go over it with a knife if there might be paint on the block but I already went over it with a knife some and it made no difference. The only thing I need to check tomorrow is make sure this is a 302 distributor and not a 351W. cause when tapping it down it starts to go all the way but then it stops before resting fully on the block. I dont know if the shaft is in a bind there or not as I have no way of turning the engine by hand till I get the crank bolt installed. Thats why I wont be sending this distributor out till it fits like it should. I may dig out my old distributor that I replaced in my truck and see how it fits on this block. Could be a defeat in the dorman distributor which would be a pain for me but I could just buy another one and if it works then send this one back claiming its defective and I just ended up buying local and get a refund.

Thats the thing if I have him do the bending I would just have him bend the pipe as much as he can to get clearance. If I do it, it would be a multi day process as I would have to take it to work and do a little bending then bring it back home and test it then take it back the next day for more fitting. But that is the least of my worries as of right now my main focus is this distributor issue as well as trying to source new parts for other areas. I did find Bronco Graveyard has a 86 - 88 302 dipstick tube in stock but its not the same as the one I am looking for and I dont even know what the difference would be. Might just pull my dipstick out and clean it up and use it. I dont think a lot of oil will spray out of the dipstick tube opening in the little bit of running I will do to move the truck into place to pull the engine.

On the color would it really make that big of a difference? I know black will absorb solar radiation such as heat from the sun but would it really expel heat from with in the header outward when the ceramic is insulating the metal?

~Update~

Reading online lots of people are saying if the drive shaft is laying to the side you wont be able to get the distributor to fully seat. Mine is laying to the side so I guess that is what my problem is. They say that the clip to keep the shaft from pulling out is supposed to keep it centered in the opening. I dont see how but I did pull the clip down slightly cause it was smashed up against the block and I was concerned about it putting shavings in the oil. Looks like I should have left it alone cause I screwed myself over now I have to get some thick grease to prop the shaft more in the middle to get the distributor in. That is unless I want to disassemble the engine to pull the oil pump and move the clip back where it needs to be.

[Rusty_S85]

Wow! That was a "mouthful"! But you are making progress working out all the details.

The issue with the distributor would bother me. It should drop down fully, and if you pull it down with the clamp you may cause a problem. I assume you've rotated the engine? I've seen them refuse to drop down until the engine was turned.

And I think you will have to heat the #5 exhaust tube and bend it. How would the other guy know how much to bend it?

On the color, black radiates the most heat possible. I chose the lightest color I could get to keep the heat in the pipes, and to prevent heating under the hood as much as possible.

See thats the thing, even when I rotate the rotor and get it where it falls on the oil pump drive shaft it doesnt easily drop all the way down. I have to tap it down and tap it up to get it off I dont know if its fitting tight on the block if I need to go over it with a knife if there might be paint on the block but I already went over it with a knife some and it made no difference. The only thing I need to check tomorrow is make sure this is a 302 distributor and not a 351W. cause when tapping it down it starts to go all the way but then it stops before resting fully on the block. I dont know if the shaft is in a bind there or not as I have no way of turning the engine by hand till I get the crank bolt installed. Thats why I wont be sending this distributor out till it fits like it should. I may dig out my old distributor that I replaced in my truck and see how it fits on this block. Could be a defeat in the dorman distributor which would be a pain for me but I could just buy another one and if it works then send this one back claiming its defective and I just ended up buying local and get a refund.

Thats the thing if I have him do the bending I would just have him bend the pipe as much as he can to get clearance. If I do it, it would be a multi day process as I would have to take it to work and do a little bending then bring it back home and test it then take it back the next day for more fitting. But that is the least of my worries as of right now my main focus is this distributor issue as well as trying to source new parts for other areas. I did find Bronco Graveyard has a 86 - 88 302 dipstick tube in stock but its not the same as the one I am looking for and I dont even know what the difference would be. Might just pull my dipstick out and clean it up and use it. I dont think a lot of oil will spray out of the dipstick tube opening in the little bit of running I will do to move the truck into place to pull the engine.

On the color would it really make that big of a difference? I know black will absorb solar radiation such as heat from the sun but would it really expel heat from with in the header outward when the ceramic is insulating the metal?

~Update~

Reading online lots of people are saying if the drive shaft is laying to the side you wont be able to get the distributor to fully seat. Mine is laying to the side so I guess that is what my problem is. They say that the clip to keep the shaft from pulling out is supposed to keep it centered in the opening. I dont see how but I did pull the clip down slightly cause it was smashed up against the block and I was concerned about it putting shavings in the oil. Looks like I should have left it alone cause I screwed myself over now I have to get some thick grease to prop the shaft more in the middle to get the distributor in. That is unless I want to disassemble the engine to pull the oil pump and move the clip back where it needs to be.

Took some measurements today, from the retaining washer to the flange the distributor gear rides on and from the flange to the mounting flange on the top side of the block. Found out there is no reason for the distributor to fully seat with free play. I reinstalled it and installed the bolt temporarily till I bring my 1/2 drive torque wrench home from work to do final bolt installation, I then rotated the engine with slight pressure on the distributor and it sucked down and fully seated with no problem. Removal how ever required tapping the bottom of the distributor.

I think the tightness is the distributor gear is dry as I didnt want to oil or grease it since its going to be sent out for recurving the distributor. I also have no grease or oil on the gear on the cam so I think its binding since both are new and havent worn in and polished to be a nice slip fit. I do need to order another small tube of the Driven assembly grease cause the one I ordered I cant find. I will apply it to the cam gear before installing the distributor via a flat blade screw driver and rotating the engine and I will do the same to the distributor gear.

Currently I have the distributor sitting in the block just to keep the opening covered but I did play around and get the rotor to point at the number one terminal with the balancer set to 12* btdc which is where I want to set initial timing if the tuner can get a total of 32* - 36* I think it was total timing with 12* initial. I dont want too much initial as I havent fully decided if I want to run a PMGR starter or just go back with the OE starter. 9.45:1 compression should not require a PMGR starter in my opinion.

[Gary Lewis]

Took some measurements today, from the retaining washer to the flange the distributor gear rides on and from the flange to the mounting flange on the top side of the block. Found out there is no reason for the distributor to fully seat with free play. I reinstalled it and installed the bolt temporarily till I bring my 1/2 drive torque wrench home from work to do final bolt installation, I then rotated the engine with slight pressure on the distributor and it sucked down and fully seated with no problem. Removal how ever required tapping the bottom of the distributor.I think the tightness is the distributor gear is dry as I didnt want to oil or grease it since its going to be sent out for recurving the distributor. I also have no grease or oil on the gear on the cam so I think its binding since both are new and havent worn in and polished to be a nice slip fit. I do need to order another small tube of the Driven assembly grease cause the one I ordered I cant find. I will apply it to the cam gear before installing the distributor via a flat blade screw driver and rotating the engine and I will do the same to the distributor gear.Currently I have the distributor sitting in the block just to keep the opening covered but I did play around and get the rotor to point at the number one terminal with the balancer set to 12* btdc which is where I want to set initial timing if the tuner can get a total of 32* - 36* I think it was total timing with 12* initial. I dont want too much initial as I havent fully decided if I want to run a PMGR starter or just go back with the OE starter. 9.45:1 compression should not require a PMGR starter in my opinion.

It won't require a PMGR starter, but it sure would benefit from one. However if you already have a good starter then that'll save some money.

 

Anyway, glad the dizzy slipped down nicely. That makes you feel much better.

[Rembrant]

Currently I have the distributor sitting in the block just to keep the opening covered but I did play around and get the rotor to point at the number one terminal with the balancer set to 12* btdc which is where I want to set initial timing if the tuner can get a total of 32* - 36* I think it was total timing with 12* initial. I dont want too much initial as I havent fully decided if I want to run a PMGR starter or just go back with the OE starter. 9.45:1 compression should not require a PMGR starter in my opinion.

Hey Rusty,

If it's any help, when I had the engine shop build my 302, I paid extra to have a dyno day with it for break-in and tuning. When all was said and done, we had the ignition set at 12* initial, and 20* mechanical, for a total of 32 obviously. A couple points here...the engine builder said that he really didn't like going over 32* long term, but we tried 32, 33, 34, etc...and it made the best power numbers at 32 degrees. Now, I have to mention that this shop does mostly Chevy's, so they weren't necessarily Ford experts.

Later on, I pulled that distributor and ordered a new custom curved unit from Parkland Performance. I gave him my engine specs, and what he came back with was 15* initial, 17* mechanical, and 17* vacuum advance. Funny, I didn't tell him what I had done on the dyno day, but he selected 32* for the best performance. The engine worked the very best with his distributor, and I even ran it with 16* initial for a while too. Starts were crisp, as was the low end power and response.

The only reason I'm mentioning all of this, is that my 35 year old OE starter worked just fine, even at the 16* initial timing. The engine started like it was EFI. Mind you, that was with 9.0:1 compression, so a little less than yours.

The only time I ever did have an issue with starting was when I installed a new "Ford Motorcraft" DSII IGN module from Amazon, and later determined that it did not have the retard during start function. Once I reinstalled the 35 year old OE DSII module, all starts were fine again.

In any case, good luck with it!

32 degrees seems to be the target number, at least from two sources that I worked with.

 

[Rusty_S85]

It won't require a PMGR starter, but it sure would benefit from one. However if you already have a good starter then that'll save some money.

 

Anyway, glad the dizzy slipped down nicely. That makes you feel much better.

It does, now I can sit back and wait for my pushrods to ship next Sunday. In the mean time I ordered a pair of -6AN O ring fittings to -6 AN to get rid of the long AN fittings installed in the throttle body. I was going to buy the steel ones since I will be running stainless steel line but the steel fittings had some kind of weird gold coating on them that I didnt care for. Hopefully the black aluminum fittings wont deform being used with stainless steel hardline.I might upgrade the starter later on when this starter I currently have stops working but its been on the truck since Ive had it and I think its original from '82.

Currently I have the distributor sitting in the block just to keep the opening covered but I did play around and get the rotor to point at the number one terminal with the balancer set to 12* btdc which is where I want to set initial timing if the tuner can get a total of 32* - 36* I think it was total timing with 12* initial. I dont want too much initial as I havent fully decided if I want to run a PMGR starter or just go back with the OE starter. 9.45:1 compression should not require a PMGR starter in my opinion.

Hey Rusty,If it's any help, when I had the engine shop build my 302, I paid extra to have a dyno day with it for break-in and tuning. When all was said and done, we had the ignition set at 12* initial, and 20* mechanical, for a total of 32 obviously. A couple points here...the engine builder said that he really didn't like going over 32* long term, but we tried 32, 33, 34, etc...and it made the best power numbers at 32 degrees. Now, I have to mention that this shop does mostly Chevy's, so they weren't necessarily Ford experts.Later on, I pulled that distributor and ordered a new custom curved unit from Parkland Performance. I gave him my engine specs, and what he came back with was 15* initial, 17* mechanical, and 17* vacuum advance. Funny, I didn't tell him what I had done on the dyno day, but he selected 32* for the best performance. The engine worked the very best with his distributor, and I even ran it with 16* initial for a while too. Starts were crisp, as was the low end power and response.The only reason I'm mentioning all of this, is that my 35 year old OE starter worked just fine, even at the 16* initial timing. The engine started like it was EFI. Mind you, that was with 9.0:1 compression, so a little less than yours.The only time I ever did have an issue with starting was when I installed a new "Ford Motorcraft" DSII IGN module from Amazon, and later determined that it did not have the retard during start function. Once I reinstalled the 35 year old OE DSII module, all starts were fine again.In any case, good luck with it! 32 degrees seems to be the target number, at least from two sources that I worked with.

I didnt get specifics from Parkland Performance from my emails back in 2019 but he did say the Cardone new distributor I have isnt a bad unit but it would require welding up the advance plate and recutting to get the advance to around 32 degrees. I think my 351W in my '78 Mercury is 12* initial and I bumped it up to 14* initial. I probably could run 14* initial but I am just wondering would I really notice that much improvement with 14* initial over 12* initial. The cam has a 107* intake center line which from everyone I have talked with said it should make the throttle very snappy and responsive down low. I guess its something I need to discuss with Parkland Performance when I go to ship my distributor to him. I still need to have it on hand to custom bend my hardline for the fuel injection before I box it up and contact Parkland Performance to find out the turn around time and give him the most accurate specs I have to date and what he thinks on initial and mechanical advance and what vacuum advance does he believe I should be shooting for under cruise.

[Rusty_S85]

It won't require a PMGR starter, but it sure would benefit from one. However if you already have a good starter then that'll save some money.

 

Anyway, glad the dizzy slipped down nicely. That makes you feel much better.

It does, now I can sit back and wait for my pushrods to ship next Sunday. In the mean time I ordered a pair of -6AN O ring fittings to -6 AN to get rid of the long AN fittings installed in the throttle body. I was going to buy the steel ones since I will be running stainless steel line but the steel fittings had some kind of weird gold coating on them that I didnt care for. Hopefully the black aluminum fittings wont deform being used with stainless steel hardline.I might upgrade the starter later on when this starter I currently have stops working but its been on the truck since Ive had it and I think its original from '82.

Currently I have the distributor sitting in the block just to keep the opening covered but I did play around and get the rotor to point at the number one terminal with the balancer set to 12* btdc which is where I want to set initial timing if the tuner can get a total of 32* - 36* I think it was total timing with 12* initial. I dont want too much initial as I havent fully decided if I want to run a PMGR starter or just go back with the OE starter. 9.45:1 compression should not require a PMGR starter in my opinion.

Hey Rusty,If it's any help, when I had the engine shop build my 302, I paid extra to have a dyno day with it for break-in and tuning. When all was said and done, we had the ignition set at 12* initial, and 20* mechanical, for a total of 32 obviously. A couple points here...the engine builder said that he really didn't like going over 32* long term, but we tried 32, 33, 34, etc...and it made the best power numbers at 32 degrees. Now, I have to mention that this shop does mostly Chevy's, so they weren't necessarily Ford experts.Later on, I pulled that distributor and ordered a new custom curved unit from Parkland Performance. I gave him my engine specs, and what he came back with was 15* initial, 17* mechanical, and 17* vacuum advance. Funny, I didn't tell him what I had done on the dyno day, but he selected 32* for the best performance. The engine worked the very best with his distributor, and I even ran it with 16* initial for a while too. Starts were crisp, as was the low end power and response.The only reason I'm mentioning all of this, is that my 35 year old OE starter worked just fine, even at the 16* initial timing. The engine started like it was EFI. Mind you, that was with 9.0:1 compression, so a little less than yours.The only time I ever did have an issue with starting was when I installed a new "Ford Motorcraft" DSII IGN module from Amazon, and later determined that it did not have the retard during start function. Once I reinstalled the 35 year old OE DSII module, all starts were fine again.In any case, good luck with it! 32 degrees seems to be the target number, at least from two sources that I worked with.

I didnt get specifics from Parkland Performance from my emails back in 2019 but he did say the Cardone new distributor I have isnt a bad unit but it would require welding up the advance plate and recutting to get the advance to around 32 degrees. I think my 351W in my '78 Mercury is 12* initial and I bumped it up to 14* initial. I probably could run 14* initial but I am just wondering would I really notice that much improvement with 14* initial over 12* initial. The cam has a 107* intake center line which from everyone I have talked with said it should make the throttle very snappy and responsive down low. I guess its something I need to discuss with Parkland Performance when I go to ship my distributor to him. I still need to have it on hand to custom bend my hardline for the fuel injection before I box it up and contact Parkland Performance to find out the turn around time and give him the most accurate specs I have to date and what he thinks on initial and mechanical advance and what vacuum advance does he believe I should be shooting for under cruise.

Talked with the engine builder I know after work to see if he knew of any exhaust shop that could tweak header tubes. He gave me an idea I hadnt thought of, he said to find some tubing cut it in half so it will fit around the tube then heat the tube up and use the half cut tubing to hit with a hammer which should spread the force out and shift the whole tube vs dinging the header.Once I found that out I decided to browse exhaust cause the Flowmaster Y pipe I will be using is a 2 1/2" pipe and I decided that I will not use my 2 1/4" Magnaflow 6" round offset chambered muffler and decided I will get the 2 1/2" version I found that is the same exact dimensions just a 1/4" bigger inlet and outlet. Problem is though that is a part number 13646 which is listed as not in stock with Magnaflow themselves, summit lists it as out of stock with no date nor pre order listed, I found one site listed it as discontinued but I found two places that has it listed to buy, one is some 4wd shop I never bought from and the other is from Speedway which we have bought from at work so I would buy from there. $100 for the muffler which isnt bad but its listed as shipping from the manufacturer estimated on or before November 17. I hate to spend the $100 on this and be waiting on the muffler when I could have used the $100 else where on my build and wait till all this supply issues get straightened out and hope that Magnaflow still plans on making that 6" round case 3 chamber muffler.So between the Y pipe and the muffler I am looking at $511.95 but the converter that I wont be using from the Flowmaster pipe I should be able to sell to a scrap yard for the converter material and maybe recoup $100 or $200 on it. I will be plugging the O2 port in the header as talking with others on the Sniper Forum and they agree with me that the O2 port in the header is way too close on this design and would not get a good balanced reading. Question becomes now where to place the O2 sensor if not in the header where the header designer placed it. One helpful guy on the forum said he would drill and weld a O2 bung in the down pipe before the Y and cross over tube at 4 inches below the ball and socket collector flange. I would have to how ever look at my truck and see about where I can put it on the pipe and I will take it to an exhaust shop to do because I dont have the equipment to weld stainless steel.With this exhaust setup I intend to run 2 1/2" straight pipe to the 2 1/2" Magnaflow muffler if they didnt discontinue it and I can still get it. Only thing I would have to do is either take the truck and the OE tail pipe I have to an exhaust shop tell them to make a 2 1/2" stainless tail pipe if possible in the OE shape and cut off the OE hanger off the 2 1/4" tail pipe and weld it on the 2 1/2" tail pipe. Or I could buy the Flowmaster multi piece tail pipe set in 2 1/2" and just piece it together myself but I just am not crazy about the angle of the pipe that kicks out to the side. The OE pipe came out at a 90 to the side behind the rear tire. Other choice is to go back the same way I have the truck now and forgo the tail pipe and just put a 2 1/2" turn down on the muffler. I prefer not to do this since I want a OE look for everything hence the spending of money on a round muffler in the same dimensions as the OE muffler.Just something I been looking at tonight to get my mind off trying to find tubing that will have a ID similar to the 1 1/2" primaries so I can get a good fit to shape the header. I also am trying to decide to I send the headers off to the guy I plan to which only has black, silver, and zirconia ceramic coatings or do I just go with Jet Hot and pay their price get the life time warranty and have more color options which I would want to go with the off road coating for the 2000*F coating and color wise if I go with Jet Hot would be between Titanium, Graphite, Satin Black, or maybe white but I dont think I want to go white as I am building a street truck not a 50's 60's hotrod.

[85lebaront2]

Talked with the engine builder I know after work to see if he knew of any exhaust shop that could tweak header tubes. He gave me an idea I hadnt thought of, he said to find some tubing cut it in half so it will fit around the tube then heat the tube up and use the half cut tubing to hit with a hammer which should spread the force out and shift the whole tube vs dinging the header.

Once I found that out I decided to browse exhaust cause the Flowmaster Y pipe I will be using is a 2 1/2" pipe and I decided that I will not use my 2 1/4" Magnaflow 6" round offset chambered muffler and decided I will get the 2 1/2" version I found that is the same exact dimensions just a 1/4" bigger inlet and outlet. Problem is though that is a part number 13646 which is listed as not in stock with Magnaflow themselves, summit lists it as out of stock with no date nor pre order listed, I found one site listed it as discontinued but I found two places that has it listed to buy, one is some 4wd shop I never bought from and the other is from Speedway which we have bought from at work so I would buy from there. $100 for the muffler which isnt bad but its listed as shipping from the manufacturer estimated on or before November 17. I hate to spend the $100 on this and be waiting on the muffler when I could have used the $100 else where on my build and wait till all this supply issues get straightened out and hope that Magnaflow still plans on making that 6" round case 3 chamber muffler.

So between the Y pipe and the muffler I am looking at $511.95 but the converter that I wont be using from the Flowmaster pipe I should be able to sell to a scrap yard for the converter material and maybe recoup $100 or $200 on it. I will be plugging the O2 port in the header as talking with others on the Sniper Forum and they agree with me that the O2 port in the header is way too close on this design and would not get a good balanced reading. Question becomes now where to place the O2 sensor if not in the header where the header designer placed it. One helpful guy on the forum said he would drill and weld a O2 bung in the down pipe before the Y and cross over tube at 4 inches below the ball and socket collector flange. I would have to how ever look at my truck and see about where I can put it on the pipe and I will take it to an exhaust shop to do because I dont have the equipment to weld stainless steel.

With this exhaust setup I intend to run 2 1/2" straight pipe to the 2 1/2" Magnaflow muffler if they didnt discontinue it and I can still get it. Only thing I would have to do is either take the truck and the OE tail pipe I have to an exhaust shop tell them to make a 2 1/2" stainless tail pipe if possible in the OE shape and cut off the OE hanger off the 2 1/4" tail pipe and weld it on the 2 1/2" tail pipe. Or I could buy the Flowmaster multi piece tail pipe set in 2 1/2" and just piece it together myself but I just am not crazy about the angle of the pipe that kicks out to the side. The OE pipe came out at a 90 to the side behind the rear tire. Other choice is to go back the same way I have the truck now and forgo the tail pipe and just put a 2 1/2" turn down on the muffler. I prefer not to do this since I want a OE look for everything hence the spending of money on a round muffler in the same dimensions as the OE muffler.

Just something I been looking at tonight to get my mind off trying to find tubing that will have a ID similar to the 1 1/2" primaries so I can get a good fit to shape the header. I also am trying to decide to I send the headers off to the guy I plan to which only has black, silver, and zirconia ceramic coatings or do I just go with Jet Hot and pay their price get the life time warranty and have more color options which I would want to go with the off road coating for the 2000*F coating and color wise if I go with Jet Hot would be between Titanium, Graphite, Satin Black, or maybe white but I dont think I want to go white as I am building a street truck not a 50's 60's hotrod.

Rusty, the O2 sensor location on the later OBDI trucks is back behind the Y, just before the cat. I am using that location on Darth for my wideband sensor. I have the control sensors in each downpipe from my manifolds as my OBDII system uses one for each bank allowing it to tweak the injectors more precisely.

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty, the O2 sensor location on the later OBDI trucks is back behind the Y, just before the cat. I am using that location on Darth for my wideband sensor. I have the control sensors in each downpipe from my manifolds as my OBDII system uses one for each bank allowing it to tweak the injectors more precisely.

Correct, on a factory fuel injection system and if I had one that is what I would do as well. Holley like FiTech isnt capable of reading both banks with individual sensors and they state to place the sensor so many inches from the collector which means they want the single sensor to read just one bank. Not sure if there would be an adverse effect moving the sensor to read both banks but from my understanding the father you get from the collector the more lag time you have for adjustments and the closer you are the less lag time you have for adjustments but too close and the heat kills the O2 sensors so you have to find a good compromise between lag time and not getting too hot.

I dont know how hot my headers will have the exhaust at the O2 sensor location in the collector but considering I will be doing highway driving quite a bit at 75 mph @ 2,750 rpm ideally that could kill the O2 sensor as well.