Fuel Injection upgrade

[Rusty_S85]

If my front tank is low, it will sometimes starve on a long up or downhill stretch, level road it will run down to the point that once I switch the pump will not even pick up afterwards. Rear tank will go until empty as the pickup is pretty well in the center.

How low do you mean by low?

Are we talking 1/8 of a tank or a 1/4 of a tank?

The 85 tank I am using has the sender/pump located in the middle of the tank. But I could buy one of those holley retrofit kits and drill a hole in my OE tank and mount the pump at the rear of the tank. Would cost about the same but I don't like the thought of having some holley specific part that I couldn't pick up a replacement locally if I needed to.

This is the Sniper Stealth 4150 I am looking at, this is where the ECM mounts compared to the traditional Sniper that mounts on the front of the throttle body.

And this is showing off the C4/C6 kick down. I just hope the throttle attachment point isn't too far forward that my throttle cable wont reach properly. Got my eye on a NOS throttle cable if the OE one will fit.

Im also going gold cause I don't want to worry about trying to keep the silver polished and the black is just too much money for a black assembly. The Gold gives a nice old style holley look.

[85lebaront2]

How low do you mean by low?

Are we talking 1/8 of a tank or a 1/4 of a tank?

The 85 tank I am using has the sender/pump located in the middle of the tank. But I could buy one of those holley retrofit kits and drill a hole in my OE tank and mount the pump at the rear of the tank. Would cost about the same but I don't like the thought of having some holley specific part that I couldn't pick up a replacement locally if I needed to.

This is the Sniper Stealth 4150 I am looking at, this is where the ECM mounts compared to the traditional Sniper that mounts on the front of the throttle body.

And this is showing off the C4/C6 kick down. I just hope the throttle attachment point isn't too far forward that my throttle cable wont reach properly. Got my eye on a NOS throttle cable if the OE one will fit.

Im also going gold cause I don't want to worry about trying to keep the silver polished and the black is just too much money for a black assembly. The Gold gives a nice old style holley look.

Probably 1/8 tank. BTW, I assume the injection system is in the "carburetor". You loose a lot of the benefits with a throttle body system vs port injection.

[Rusty_S85]

Probably 1/8 tank. BTW, I assume the injection system is in the "carburetor". You loose a lot of the benefits with a throttle body system vs port injection.

Correct, where the fuel bowls are there are four 100lb/hr injectors for each of the barrels capable of supplying 650 hp.

I know TBI is not as efficient as true MPI, but the Edelbrock MPI setup for $1,800 doesn't have a provision for ford kick down. Would have to fabricate up a kick down cable or just omit the kick down all together on my C6.

For me I am perfectly fine with a TBI as it would be a improvement over a carburetor. It will also result in a improved economy as well. But the biggest up side is I can fine tune it though. I can set the idle speed where I want it without having to open my hood up. I can also check the O2 sensor and see what my burn is looking like as well without having to have a stand alone gauge. Instead of running a mechanical fuel pressure gauge I could get a holley fuel pressure sensor and could view the pressure through the hand held unit. But I wont be leaving the hand held unit installed though. It will remain attached long enough to make sure there are no problems everything is adjusted properly then its being unplugged and the wire coiled up and tied behind the dash.

Also I am fine if there is a problem around 1/8 of a tank from time to time. I try to get a fill up around 1/4 tank but with mostly highway driving of 65 to 75 mph with long stretches between gas stations I would like to know I am not cutting it too close between fill ups. Also would like to do like I do now and only get fuel once a week vs twice a week. That's one thing I dread after I move that with the distances I will be driving for work, my short commute would be longer and I would be buying more and more gas.

[85lebaront2]

Correct, where the fuel bowls are there are four 100lb/hr injectors for each of the barrels capable of supplying 650 hp.

I know TBI is not as efficient as true MPI, but the Edelbrock MPI setup for $1,800 doesn't have a provision for ford kick down. Would have to fabricate up a kick down cable or just omit the kick down all together on my C6.

For me I am perfectly fine with a TBI as it would be a improvement over a carburetor. It will also result in a improved economy as well. But the biggest up side is I can fine tune it though. I can set the idle speed where I want it without having to open my hood up. I can also check the O2 sensor and see what my burn is looking like as well without having to have a stand alone gauge. Instead of running a mechanical fuel pressure gauge I could get a holley fuel pressure sensor and could view the pressure through the hand held unit. But I wont be leaving the hand held unit installed though. It will remain attached long enough to make sure there are no problems everything is adjusted properly then its being unplugged and the wire coiled up and tied behind the dash.

Also I am fine if there is a problem around 1/8 of a tank from time to time. I try to get a fill up around 1/4 tank but with mostly highway driving of 65 to 75 mph with long stretches between gas stations I would like to know I am not cutting it too close between fill ups. Also would like to do like I do now and only get fuel once a week vs twice a week. That's one thing I dread after I move that with the distances I will be driving for work, my short commute would be longer and I would be buying more and more gas.

Gee, let see, 1990 F250 donor truck $845, EEC-V system with 1 year of support $1500, MAF from 1995 Lincoln Continental parts car $0. Wiring harness from favorite junkyard, time invested to pull it. Updating everything underhood to 1996 specs, maybe $200 including new AC condenser and orifice tube, R134a and oil.

With the donor truck I got a running, but using oil EFI 460, E4OD, all underhood brackets etc.

On the C6 kickdown, check Lokar, they have some nice parts for about any application and they specifically make one for the Chevy style throttle lever with the bottom tail.

[Rusty_S85]

Gee, let see, 1990 F250 donor truck $845, EEC-V system with 1 year of support $1500, MAF from 1995 Lincoln Continental parts car $0. Wiring harness from favorite junkyard, time invested to pull it. Updating everything underhood to 1996 specs, maybe $200 including new AC condenser and orifice tube, R134a and oil.

With the donor truck I got a running, but using oil EFI 460, E4OD, all underhood brackets etc.

On the C6 kickdown, check Lokar, they have some nice parts for about any application and they specifically make one for the Chevy style throttle lever with the bottom tail.

Lokar has a conversion but it requires a lot of trial and error to fit it.

As far as a donor truck goes, I cant buy one, too many cars as it is here and if another one is brought in the city will get involved then.

My thing is buy a edelbrock 5.0 lower and upper intake, the throttle body, the fuel injectors, the fuel rails, and everything else needed such as the sensors the price would be close to $2,000 for everything. Cause the Foxbody mustang ECU from Holley as the sniper X ECU for OE fuel injection is $1,150 by itself.

I did lots of thinking on this and to do a late model swap would be more money and time than I want to invest into this considering once my 306 build is finished I still got to spend another $2,500 for having a built C6 done to my requirements then another $2,000 for a assembled truetrac 9" center chunk from currie. Im already pushing it as it is now as my 306 build is right at $8,000 and I am making a change to fuel injection for another $2,000 roughly.

[Jacob84]

Interesting, I never heard about that interference. But the Sniper Stealth built to look like the Holley 4150 that I am looking at the ECM is mounted on the passenger side of the throttle body where the choke and vacuum secondaries would be mounted at. I assume this would help move the ECM further away from the distributor to not have an effect.

Like wise FiTech told us that they don't recommend getting their RPM signal from a GM HEI tach output as it is a very noisy dirty signal and to run a tach signal generator that will clean it up before hand. That was their excuse to fix the GM installations Ive done of theirs at work that was running too rich on start up and just running horrible. Every sniper I installed on GM, I just spliced into the tach output on the HEI setup with no problem. I wonder if Holley built systems have a better system to prevent interference.

I have to figure out what vehicle to grab the 3G alternator from. I would just simply run a charge wire from the alternator to the solenoid to create a bypass. I hope that Dakota Digital will release their retro line up for the 80 - 86 trucks if so that would work great cause ive installed numerous VHX clusters by them and you can custom setup any ohm fuel sender you want. Want to throw in a more modern 92 fuel tank for example with fuel pump assembly just punch in what the ohm spec is and your gauge will work perfectly. This also means the volt gauge will function properly also as it will be integrated into the system via bus connection to the module that you make your wire connections to.

On my engine, I wouldn't say its stock. Specs I have are as follows.

CID 306

Compression : 9.0 - 9.75:1 (goal of 9.5:1)

heads : AFR Renegade 165cc

intake manifold : Performer dual plane with 1" divided phenolic spacer

carb : Summit 600cfm vac secondary (what I initially planned to run)

exhaust : hedman street headers 86 - 96 F150/Bronco

Cam : Crane hydraulic roller 216*/224* @ 0.050", 112* LSA, 107* Intake center line, 0.520"/0.542" lift

distributor : DSII 302HO Mustang Distributor (will be shipping out go ford guy in Washington state to recurve it for engine specs)

The exhaust from here I got the Jegs offroad Y pipe for a 86 - 96 F-series/bronco and a very close to OE dimension Magnaflow XL 3 Chamber muffler in 2 1/4" with a 83-86 2 1/4" tail pipe. Only thing I am thinking differently on is I see Magnaflow offers a Y pipe and converter that is 2 1/2" OE but its one piece mandrel bent compared to the crimped bends on the jegs Y pipe that also has a joiner piece under the oil pan which I don't like the thought of a clamp under my oil pan.

I am a little concerned on the size though, the CFM is 750 on the Holley setups for the 100 - 650 hp variant. I am a bit concerned it might result in a reduction in throttle response but hopefully the smaller 165cc heads will help keep the velocity up for such a small engine and keep the throttle response up.

Once I get my engine setup finished I am looking at broader performance to build me a C6 transmission with the wide ratio planetary gear set. If I had decided to go AOD I wouldn't worry about getting the more expensive stealth setup as I would need to run a cable for the transmission anyways. But sticking with the C6, it limits my options to retain the kickdown rod which I already bought the Holley kick down rod extension.

It may not be a wide spread issue with the interference but I have heard of it. I would think that side mounted ecu would be better. The efi system that I heard it happening too was the Sniper (not stealth) system but like I said, if it was widespread it would be all over the forums so you might be fine.

Are you running a v belt or serpentine system for the accessories? I had a donor (totaled 95 f150 with rodent modified wiring and fallen tree modified cab, hood, and tailgate) so I swapped everything over to the serpentine system.

I think you'll be fine as far as the tuning looking at your motor specs. I have a 351w, stock heads, stock rotating assembly, Weiand intake, roller camshaft .445/.445 lift .210/.211 duration @.050 115 LSA. So mine is stock-ish, great torque and power but still had to pull fuel out so it idles well and doesn't fall on it's face when I floor it.

That Jegs y pipe is good quality but make sure it fits correctly. If it were me I would just take it to a reputable shop and have them build an exhaust. I wasted a ton of money trying to build my own exhaust.....took it to a shop and now I have a tucked 2.5 inch single exhaust, off brand Magnaflow muffler, 60 degree bent tail pipe with a factory flared tip. And the exhaust doesn't dangle a foot below the bed like a stock tailpipe, more like 2 inches below the bed. It looks and sounds awesome.

I don't think you'll have a throttle response problem. I've had no issues even with the massive throttle body I have. Granted, I have more displacement and tame cam, but my throttle response improved greatly with the new EFI over the carb.

I'm currently not running a kickdown on my C6 because there was no provision for it on the Summit Max EFI500 system. I'm also looking for a solution.

[Rusty_S85]

It may not be a wide spread issue with the interference but I have heard of it. I would think that side mounted ecu would be better. The efi system that I heard it happening too was the Sniper (not stealth) system but like I said, if it was widespread it would be all over the forums so you might be fine.

Are you running a v belt or serpentine system for the accessories? I had a donor (totaled 95 f150 with rodent modified wiring and fallen tree modified cab, hood, and tailgate) so I swapped everything over to the serpentine system.

I think you'll be fine as far as the tuning looking at your motor specs. I have a 351w, stock heads, stock rotating assembly, Weiand intake, roller camshaft .445/.445 lift .210/.211 duration @.050 115 LSA. So mine is stock-ish, great torque and power but still had to pull fuel out so it idles well and doesn't fall on it's face when I floor it.

That Jegs y pipe is good quality but make sure it fits correctly. If it were me I would just take it to a reputable shop and have them build an exhaust. I wasted a ton of money trying to build my own exhaust.....took it to a shop and now I have a tucked 2.5 inch single exhaust, off brand Magnaflow muffler, 60 degree bent tail pipe with a factory flared tip. And the exhaust doesn't dangle a foot below the bed like a stock tailpipe, more like 2 inches below the bed. It looks and sounds awesome.

I don't think you'll have a throttle response problem. I've had no issues even with the massive throttle body I have. Granted, I have more displacement and tame cam, but my throttle response improved greatly with the new EFI over the carb.

I'm currently not running a kickdown on my C6 because there was no provision for it on the Summit Max EFI500 system. I'm also looking for a solution.

I will have to look into that and see what other people are having issues with.

Im running the stock V belt setup. I thought of switching to serpentine but my problem is my truck is dealer A/C with the York compressor. I would have to completely pull my AC system under the hood and redo it to make it work with the serpentine setup. Something I currently am not going to mess with. But eventually I do want to pull the small condenser off and install a larger condenser that covers the whole width of the radiator vs just half of it. I would also convert to O ring style fittings over the dealer setup of using hose clamps.

I know with a 3G setup I should be good to run the 90A small case 3G alternator with a V belt without having a slippage problem. I think 90A will be well over enough for my truck even with fuel injection.

I like the jegs Y pipe I just don't like the split under the oil pan. Im thinking about getting the one from magnaflow with the nice clean mandrel bends. I will be having the muffler shop doing some of my install how ever.

The Y-pipes out back to the muffler I will do myself as I got the band clamp style muffler clamps. The tail pipe I have to cut off the '83 - '86 hanger which is the hook style for the rubber doughnut which my '82 doesn't have. I will take the first tail pipe I bought that is correct for my '82 with the correct hanger but its in a too small 2" pipe. I will cut off the OE hanger from there and mock it up and tack it in place then take it to the muffler shop I know to have it welded on properly.

All I really need for my exhaust is the Y pipe and then its just a straight pipe from the Y pipe back to the muffler then its the tail pipe. If I was going with something a bit more custom then by all means I would let a muffler shop do the install.

I really am anxious to see how my setup will sound, I don't want super loud and crazy but I want a good sound. I also hope the thick Ford Racing slant roof valve covers will muffle the Scorpion 1.6:1 roller rockers I will be running.

I agree on the EFI setup, every sniper we've installed the throttle response has been amazing. Only thing is getting the IAC setup with in specs on the hand unit has resulted in some with a low idle speed creating excessive suction on the throttle plates that make them quite sticky feeling. But I seen that there is a extension for the throttle arm to help give better leverage to make the throttle feel smoother. Might be a option if I run into that problem.

[Rusty_S85]

Well I got my fuel injection in today. Did a test fit of my NOS aircleaner and its no go. My NOS aircleaner doesn't fit the opening on the 4150 style sniper. My NOS aircleaner has a way larger opening for some reason and that is the part number that came up for my application for my '82 F150.

I tried my split aircleaner off the truck and it fits a little better but I would need to run a spacer on the aircleaner as the simulated float adjustment screws are contacting the aircleaner. I should be able to get by with 1/2" but my thing is still the aircleaner. my old one is all split and broken up there would be no point in having the cold air hooked up as its able to suck air from all over the place.

So now the fun time of trying to find a used aircleaner fairly cheap for our trucks. I found a few for 77 - 79 that look identical to what I have. I could possibly even rob the aircleaner off my '78 mercury which is the same 2V carb as all I need is just the base. But I think the number of openings are different in the base for sensors and my pcv filter is located on the driverside on my truck but on the passengerside rear on the mercury.

Really throws a wrench in the works for me unless I can devise a way to shrink the NOS aircleaner mount to fit I am stuck with my old unit hunting for a new one. Sucks cause I paid $150 for this NOS aircleaner and cant even use it.

[Jacob84]

Well I got my fuel injection in today. Did a test fit of my NOS aircleaner and its no go. My NOS aircleaner doesn't fit the opening on the 4150 style sniper. My NOS aircleaner has a way larger opening for some reason and that is the part number that came up for my application for my '82 F150.

I tried my split aircleaner off the truck and it fits a little better but I would need to run a spacer on the aircleaner as the simulated float adjustment screws are contacting the aircleaner. I should be able to get by with 1/2" but my thing is still the aircleaner. my old one is all split and broken up there would be no point in having the cold air hooked up as its able to suck air from all over the place.

So now the fun time of trying to find a used aircleaner fairly cheap for our trucks. I found a few for 77 - 79 that look identical to what I have. I could possibly even rob the aircleaner off my '78 mercury which is the same 2V carb as all I need is just the base. But I think the number of openings are different in the base for sensors and my pcv filter is located on the driverside on my truck but on the passengerside rear on the mercury.

Really throws a wrench in the works for me unless I can devise a way to shrink the NOS aircleaner mount to fit I am stuck with my old unit hunting for a new one. Sucks cause I paid $150 for this NOS aircleaner and cant even use it.

Post some pics of the throttle body and some measurements if you can. My 5.8 HO aircleaner cleared my Fitech throttle body perfectly and can compare your measurements to my aircleaner You've got a 5.0 right? Would be super cool if a 5.0 HO dual snorkel air cleaner fit

[85lebaront2]

Well I got my fuel injection in today. Did a test fit of my NOS aircleaner and its no go. My NOS aircleaner doesn't fit the opening on the 4150 style sniper. My NOS aircleaner has a way larger opening for some reason and that is the part number that came up for my application for my '82 F150.

I tried my split aircleaner off the truck and it fits a little better but I would need to run a spacer on the aircleaner as the simulated float adjustment screws are contacting the aircleaner. I should be able to get by with 1/2" but my thing is still the aircleaner. my old one is all split and broken up there would be no point in having the cold air hooked up as its able to suck air from all over the place.

So now the fun time of trying to find a used aircleaner fairly cheap for our trucks. I found a few for 77 - 79 that look identical to what I have. I could possibly even rob the aircleaner off my '78 mercury which is the same 2V carb as all I need is just the base. But I think the number of openings are different in the base for sensors and my pcv filter is located on the driverside on my truck but on the passengerside rear on the mercury.

Really throws a wrench in the works for me unless I can devise a way to shrink the NOS aircleaner mount to fit I am stuck with my old unit hunting for a new one. Sucks cause I paid $150 for this NOS aircleaner and cant even use it.

Is your NOS air cleaner for a VV? They have a larger air cleaner opening.