Fuel Injection upgrade

[Rusty_S85]

What package are you using to do the drawings? I find CAD to work very nicely for that. For instance, I drew up my Carling switches using the factory drawings, but then realized that if I rotated the drawing 180 degrees it made the connections much cleaner. So I just selected the guts of one of the switches, selected rotate 180, and boom, there it was.

I'm saying that because it would be easy to rotate the relays and put 30 on top. And I fully understand what you are saying.

On which box to use, I'd recommend going with one that has room for expansion. I ran out in my Ford PDB that's on the passenger's fender and can't do what I would like to do. So when I put the matching one on the driver's fender I may move some functions there to gain room on the other side. Just don't paint yourself into a corner.

Im using Photoshop to create this. Whats nice is each item has its own layer so I can click and drag and rearrange. The circuits themselves are drawn directly on the base layer. I could take and crop the numbers out and relocate them as well or take and crop the numbers out then actually flip the relay then place the numbers back on. Not hard to do, just was more focused on laying it all out to get an idea of what I will need for the circuits.

Im currently thinking about using plugs but not sure if a weather tight connector would cause problems with the sniper since Sniper doesnt use them outside of connecting to the IAC, MAP, and injectors. Id be a little concerned about the connection introducing resistance that might help promote RFI as all the reading Ive done on the matter, bad power/ground can result in RFI which is why Holley strongly recommends you make your power and ground connections directly to the battery. Im seriously thinking about having the sniper fuse isolated and not bussed so I can run a power wire directly to the battery along with a ground. But I dont believe I would have an issue as even via a bussed fuse circuit the other end is still directly attached to the positive side of the battery.

For the relays and switches I actually did like I did with my emission decal that I work on in my spare time, I found online a decent resolution drawing of electrical components then I load a separate tab in photoshop with that drawing then I highlight what I want go to image and copy then go to my diagram and go to image and paste and now I have a new layer to arrange. Whats great about Photoshop as well for me is I can use it to maintain equal distances for a more professional look. I just need to tweak my lower three relays up some as they are a little too far down but I mainly did that cause I didnt want to redo the circuits for relay 4, 5, and 6.

On the box thats why I want to check out this weekend with a card board cut out of the larger box I found even though it would leave me with one open relay it would allow me to use that relay for a remote start feature which I honestly believe you need a relay for an alarm with remote start. If not I could use it as a disable for the Sniper fuel pump circuit so when the alarm is armed no one can hotwire the truck as the fuel pump in the tank is dead. Down side with this is you run the risk the alarm not deactivating allowing for the fuel pump to be powered up. But I could carry a small 10ga jumper wire where I could jumper the terminal bypassing the relay in an emergency case though.

I also dont know if I will be adding more lights and a roll bar, I am still on the hunt for photos of a 80 - 86 flareside with the GoRhino roll bar so I can see how it sits in the bed. While I wont be hauling a lot with my truck I also dont want to paint myself into a corner by drastically reducing the little bed space I already have. Cause for example if I go to the lake or river I would like to take an ice chest for example so I would need room for that. Or if I go to the family reunion we have every year I would need room for taking raffle items for the reunion fundraiser as well as for bringing raffle items won home. So I need to really be sure about it before I settle on it. Like wise I also need to make sure the roll bar will sit on the wood itself and not on the stainless steel bed strips I will be installing. This would allow holes to simply be drilled through the wood with large fender washers on the back side then if I ever decide to get rid of the roll bar all I would have to do is simply replace those boards or all of the boards. The stainless steel strips wouldnt be damaged so they could be reused reducing my reversion cost quite a bit.

Only thing that might be a big problem for me is trying to find a DPDT switch like I want that is low profile that I can mount it under my dash and it not be seen. It doesnt have to carry a lot of current as its only completing the circuit for the relay triggers for Relay 7 and 8.

Been looking at fittings again as I found out today that I can buy a hydraulic flare tool that can create male quick disconnects in metal hardlines. So I am thinking of taking the stainless steel 3/8" fuel line I found pre made at Inline Tube and I can flare both ends for quick disconnects then I can connect the corvette style fuel filter/pressure regulator directly to this hardline with the quick disconnect. Inlet side and return will have to be done via hose as the filter uses male quick disconnects.

I found two Russell push on EFI fittings that are black anodized straight fittings part number 611203 for -6 hose to 3/8" female quick connect and 611253 for -6 hose to 5/16" female quick connect. Only thing I can not find out about is if it would hurt to use this reuseable hose end on a non braided fuel hose.

I really want to run the plain rubber Earl's Vapor Guard hose but not sure if the hose would work properly with these hose ends. I could still get the quick disconnects in the proper Earl's Vapor Guard hose ends which I believe I already have a set of. I just dont know if I will like the look since you have to put a hose clamp or a crimp on the hose to lock it to the hose end.

Im thinking about using quick disconnect hoses at the fuel tank to a custom bent stainless steel hardline for 3/8" supply and 5/16" return. Then use another short quick disconnect hoses between the hardline and the filter then the only other quick disconnect would be between the hardline at the engine and the hardline on the frame. Im thinking this would not just look more factory like but would reduce the number of leak points for me.

[Gary Lewis]

Been looking at fittings again as I found out today that I can buy a hydraulic flare tool that can create male quick disconnects in metal hardlines. So I am thinking of taking the stainless steel 3/8" fuel line I found pre made at Inline Tube and I can flare both ends for quick disconnects then I can connect the corvette style fuel filter/pressure regulator directly to this hardline with the quick disconnect. Inlet side and return will have to be done via hose as the filter uses male quick disconnects.

I found two Russell push on EFI fittings that are black anodized straight fittings part number 611203 for -6 hose to 3/8" female quick connect and 611253 for -6 hose to 5/16" female quick connect. Only thing I can not find out about is if it would hurt to use this reuseable hose end on a non braided fuel hose.

I really want to run the plain rubber Earl's Vapor Guard hose but not sure if the hose would work properly with these hose ends. I could still get the quick disconnects in the proper Earl's Vapor Guard hose ends which I believe I already have a set of. I just dont know if I will like the look since you have to put a hose clamp or a crimp on the hose to lock it to the hose end.

Im thinking about using quick disconnect hoses at the fuel tank to a custom bent stainless steel hardline for 3/8" supply and 5/16" return. Then use another short quick disconnect hoses between the hardline and the filter then the only other quick disconnect would be between the hardline at the engine and the hardline on the frame. Im thinking this would not just look more factory like but would reduce the number of leak points for me.

Two things. First, stainless isn't easily formed as it work-hardens easily. So you may have problems flaring it.

Second, why not just go the way the factory went and use the nylon line? That is what most manufacturers went with soon after the Bullnose era, and they work well. I bought rolls of the 3/8 and 5/16 and the connections as well as the tool to install them with and it worked nicely. I have an all-new factory system from a 90's truck under Big Blue.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Two things. First, stainless isn't easily formed as it work-hardens easily. So you may have problems flaring it.

Second, why not just go the way the factory went and use the nylon line? That is what most manufacturers went with soon after the Bullnose era, and they work well. I bought rolls of the 3/8 and 5/16 and the connections as well as the tool to install them with and it worked nicely. I have an all-new factory system from a 90's truck under Big Blue.

I wonder about the nickel-copper brake line?

It obviously can handle the pressure and vibration.

The thick walls make it really easy to double flare.

All of the propane plumbing around here is flared soft copper roll.

If it were really dangerous would they allow people to run it through their house connected to a 1,000 gallon tank?

[Rusty_S85]

Two things. First, stainless isn't easily formed as it work-hardens easily. So you may have problems flaring it.

Second, why not just go the way the factory went and use the nylon line? That is what most manufacturers went with soon after the Bullnose era, and they work well. I bought rolls of the 3/8 and 5/16 and the connections as well as the tool to install them with and it worked nicely. I have an all-new factory system from a 90's truck under Big Blue.

Straight stainless steel sure but Ive never seen anything bad about annealed stainless steel as its annealed to have easy workability when it comes to flaring. The main point I want to go with stainless is to make it last longer than just simply running all rubber line.

On the nylon line for making flex connections I need to check how well it works with ethanol blended fuels, the reading Ive done found that the Earls Vaporguard hose has a barrier that is to help prevent fuel vapors from seeping through the hose over time. The paperwork I came across on this hose presents that 12" of rubber fuel hose can lose up to 1 gallon of fuel over 1 year and their barrier hose actually prevents it. Their hose is also rated at 225 psi, if the nylon line would provide the same benefit I would seriously consider using it for my flex connections.

[Rusty_S85]

I wonder about the nickel-copper brake line?

It obviously can handle the pressure and vibration.

The thick walls make it really easy to double flare.

All of the propane plumbing around here is flared soft copper roll.

If it were really dangerous would they allow people to run it through their house connected to a 1,000 gallon tank?

For double flare sure, but for me I wont be doing double flare. The flare I want to do is the quick disconnect that is used on fuel systems especially on GM.

This is the Eastwood stock photo of their hydraulic flare tool showing what flares it can make the far left is the one I would be using which is the quick disconnect and I believe something like Annealed Stainless Steel would easily form this flare.

Only thing I am looking at is hose wise, I really want to run the Earls Vapor Guard hose that has the barrier liner that prevents fuel vapors from seeping through the hose itself over time. Problem is the hose ends for the Earls Vapor Guard has a unique hose barb to not tear the inside liner of the hose and it brings a question to me if one could use the reuseable hose ends with the threaded collar.

I dont mind using the correct Vapor Guard hose ends its just that they dont make a vapor guard hose end with a quick disconnect end so I would have to have a quick disconnect with a -6AN end on it and then thread the -6AN hose end onto it which adds length as well as introduces a leak point that wouldnt be there with a Russell hose end for example that is made with the quick disconnect on the other end.

Just one of the things I am seriously thinking about as my goal is to run metal hardline from the mechanical fuel pump end to where my fuel filter/regulator will be mounted. I also do plan on flaring annealed stainless steel to AN flare so I can make a hardline for my EFI without having to worry about using rubber hose. It also will allow me to custom bend the hardline around things such as my coil and distributor and dealer A/C compressor bracketry. This would leave me with two points for non metal lines one at the flex point between the engine and frame the other some where between the fuel tank and the fuel filter. I have some left over quick disconnects with -6 AN fittings as well as -6 AN fittings with Earls Vapor Guard barbs that I got from doing sniper installs at work. So I was going to go this route as it would save me money but the more I think about it the more I want to go above and beyond than just simply running all rubber line from one end to the other.

[Jacob84]

For double flare sure, but for me I wont be doing double flare. The flare I want to do is the quick disconnect that is used on fuel systems especially on GM.

This is the Eastwood stock photo of their hydraulic flare tool showing what flares it can make the far left is the one I would be using which is the quick disconnect and I believe something like Annealed Stainless Steel would easily form this flare.

Only thing I am looking at is hose wise, I really want to run the Earls Vapor Guard hose that has the barrier liner that prevents fuel vapors from seeping through the hose itself over time. Problem is the hose ends for the Earls Vapor Guard has a unique hose barb to not tear the inside liner of the hose and it brings a question to me if one could use the reuseable hose ends with the threaded collar.

I dont mind using the correct Vapor Guard hose ends its just that they dont make a vapor guard hose end with a quick disconnect end so I would have to have a quick disconnect with a -6AN end on it and then thread the -6AN hose end onto it which adds length as well as introduces a leak point that wouldnt be there with a Russell hose end for example that is made with the quick disconnect on the other end.

Just one of the things I am seriously thinking about as my goal is to run metal hardline from the mechanical fuel pump end to where my fuel filter/regulator will be mounted. I also do plan on flaring annealed stainless steel to AN flare so I can make a hardline for my EFI without having to worry about using rubber hose. It also will allow me to custom bend the hardline around things such as my coil and distributor and dealer A/C compressor bracketry. This would leave me with two points for non metal lines one at the flex point between the engine and frame the other some where between the fuel tank and the fuel filter. I have some left over quick disconnects with -6 AN fittings as well as -6 AN fittings with Earls Vapor Guard barbs that I got from doing sniper installs at work. So I was going to go this route as it would save me money but the more I think about it the more I want to go above and beyond than just simply running all rubber line from one end to the other.

I wouldn’t feel bad about using rubber hose for the entire system, as long as you route everything right. It’s easy to cut though so you gotta make sure the hose isn’t touching the cab or anything like that with an edge. I used Earls VaporGuard with their fittings and Russell quick connect fittings from the tank (95 f150 EFI tank) to a GM LT1 fuel filter/regulator with Russell quick connect fittings. No leaks, good pressure, does good. I have had to reroute the lines a little to make sure they don’t get damaged. I drive a lot too, this is my daily and no problems.

Hard lines are preferable though, but if bad comes to worse you can use the rubber. It’ll just take time to route them right. When I get the time and money I’ll be converting to hard lines too most likely. Not advocating rubber over steel though. I wouldn’t hesitate to run it even with the extra fittings. Russell and Earls are pretty good quality

[ArdWrknTrk]

I wouldn’t feel bad about using rubber hose for the entire system, as long as you route everything right. It’s easy to cut though so you gotta make sure the hose isn’t touching the cab or anything like that with an edge. I used Earls VaporGuard with their fittings and Russell quick connect fittings from the tank (95 f150 EFI tank) to a GM LT1 fuel filter/regulator with Russell quick connect fittings. No leaks, good pressure, does good. I have had to reroute the lines a little to make sure they don’t get damaged. I drive a lot too, this is my daily and no problems.

Hard lines are preferable though, but if bad comes to worse you can use the rubber. It’ll just take time to route them right. When I get the time and money I’ll be converting to hard lines too most likely. Not advocating rubber over steel though. I wouldn’t hesitate to run it even with the extra fittings. Russell and Earls are pretty good quality

Only real advantage I see to metal is that you can use the clips that are already inside the frame rail.

Well, and it won't be able to move around.

Now that Earls is a part of Holley I'm surprised they don't offer more fittings.

It was a different story 50 years ago when they only sold military surplus.

[85lebaront2]

I wouldn’t feel bad about using rubber hose for the entire system, as long as you route everything right. It’s easy to cut though so you gotta make sure the hose isn’t touching the cab or anything like that with an edge. I used Earls VaporGuard with their fittings and Russell quick connect fittings from the tank (95 f150 EFI tank) to a GM LT1 fuel filter/regulator with Russell quick connect fittings. No leaks, good pressure, does good. I have had to reroute the lines a little to make sure they don’t get damaged. I drive a lot too, this is my daily and no problems.

Hard lines are preferable though, but if bad comes to worse you can use the rubber. It’ll just take time to route them right. When I get the time and money I’ll be converting to hard lines too most likely. Not advocating rubber over steel though. I wouldn’t hesitate to run it even with the extra fittings. Russell and Earls are pretty good quality

My Chrysler Turbo system uses rubber from tank to body lines and from body lines to engine fuel rail. It is SAE J30R9 and these run 55 psi static and it goes to 70 psi at 15 psi boost.

[ArdWrknTrk]

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n82941/p31562_3.jpg

Eastwoods bubble flare section on the right is completely inaccurate.

 

[Jacob84]

My Chrysler Turbo system uses rubber from tank to body lines and from body lines to engine fuel rail. It is SAE J30R9 and these run 55 psi static and it goes to 70 psi at 15 psi boost.

Well now I don’t feel so bad about just using rubber (Earls to be specific). I do want to route them a little cleaner though and safer. And I would also think Earls would offer more fittings.

I’m not the biggest fan of Holley buying out businesses.