F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, thank you very much for the offer on parts. I suspect you are correct, that shipping may be more expensive than the salvage yard prices on some of this, but if I am having difficulty finding something I will ask.

The IDI radiator is absolutely massive. I would consider something like a 460 radiator for a diesel Bronco or light truck conversion, but for a heavy work truck I’m not inclined to risk it. If I end up hauling a flatbed load of cement sacks up the ten mile stretch of 6% grade from Bullhead in 120* summer heat I don’t want to wonder whether the radiator is going to cut it. I have the IDI radiator, and it looks to be in decent shape.

I still need to crawl up under the dash and/or pull the dash apart to see what shape the Aeronose wiring is in. I don’t know if the cluster wiring is intact or if the P.O. butchered it. I know the starting and charging circuits are badly hacked. Still, fixing and sorting that out is probably less work than getting bogged down with a full on interior swap?

Frank, thank you for the kind words and vote of confidence. I am sure I will be happy once it’s done, I just wish I had more of the right puzzle pieces 😕

Jim, the dually truck box is indeed a bit on the rough side, as one would expect for the price. I found a Bullnose one as well, also for $200, but looks even rougher:

For me, fabricating a flatbed is challenging to source the steel and I don’t have a great work area to build something like this. It is probably my most expensive and time consuming option. I am really hoping to find something already made, or use a regular DRW bed. It is also something I could change later, but I have to be able to fit the water tank now, and I would rather get it right the first time.

Well, that bed doesn't show the gate or taillights either, so I'm not hopeful.

Whoever took those pics framed them intentionally.

I didn't realize steel was expensive for you.

I typically pay 1.5x scrap for what I get at the yard.

Sometimes that means buying a 15' length to get the six I need, but it never goes to waste.

Without a place to work, or time to do it, I understand your looking for a ready made solution.

Be aware that the 450 C&C is going to have flat frame rails, and a different width than a pickup would.

So a dually box will not "drop right on"

You've hit the ground running.

I look forward to the build. 👍

[Ford F834]

Well, that bed doesn't show the gate or taillights either, so I'm not hopeful.

Whoever took those pics framed them intentionally.

I didn't realize steel was expensive for you.

I typically pay 1.5x scrap for what I get at the yard.

Sometimes that means buying a 15' length to get the six I need, but it never goes to waste.

Without a place to work, or time to do it, I understand your looking for a ready made solution.

Be aware that the 450 C&C is going to have flat frame rails, and a different width than a pickup would.

So a dually box will not "drop right on"

You've hit the ground running.

I look forward to the build. 👍

Jim, I have not yet tried to source steel here in Kingman, but I priced some a few years back when I lived in the Flagstaff area and had a rude awakening. I ended up going a different direction with the project I was working on then. I will have some time to shop for a bed while I do the engine swap, but if nothing suitable comes along I will have to build something. I have thought about the comments from you and others and I think you are right that a flatbed is the way to go, with removable sides.

Shaun, that’s partly why I have such an issue with the existing 460 wiring loom. Probably 80% of it won’t be used, and trying to verify the important ones is challenging. The guy who put an Aeronose interior into a bricknose truck opted to make his own completely new custom wire harness and used all aftermarket gauges. That could be a possibility, but wire is expensive and unless you are extremely good at wiring things up I can see that taking a LOT of time. I think I would prefer the dash swap over that.

 

[Ford F834]

Jim, I have not yet tried to source steel here in Kingman, but I priced some a few years back when I lived in the Flagstaff area and had a rude awakening. I ended up going a different direction with the project I was working on then. I will have some time to shop for a bed while I do the engine swap, but if nothing suitable comes along I will have to build something. I have thought about the comments from you and others and I think you are right that a flatbed is the way to go, with removable sides.

Shaun, that’s partly why I have such an issue with the existing 460 wiring loom. Probably 80% of it won’t be used, and trying to verify the important ones is challenging. The guy who put an Aeronose interior into a bricknose truck opted to make his own completely new custom wire harness and used all aftermarket gauges. That could be a possibility, but wire is expensive and unless you are extremely good at wiring things up I can see that taking a LOT of time. I think I would prefer the dash swap over that.

I was able to investigate another salvage yard this afternoon in Lake Havasu AZ. They had an Aeronose diesel but it was a computerized Powerstroke, and unfortunately the radiator support was already gone. Access to the vehicles was terrible, and there was no organization whatsoever. *But... the vehicles were not as systematically picked over and the items I inquired about seemed reasonably priced. I would go back...

I didn’t buy any parts but I did score some excellent photos of Bullnose dash mounting and what the Aeronose HVAC ducts look like. I’m sure these are nothing remarkable, but useful when you do not have photographic memory:

The main issues that I see with fitting this dash into an Aeronose cab are the missing supports spot welded to the firewall (for pedal box, center dash support rod, and HVAC duct mounting point) plus the reduced/missing ledge at the bottom of the windshield. I think the speaker support could be creatively fastened to support the center, but the top corner bolts have nothing to fasten to (all of this is just as Shaun already described with the bricknose cab). I believe the exterior boxes are identical 80-96 with the exception that 87+ has an add-on for a vacuum control in the engine bay. Note also that the replacement blend door says fitment is for 80-96. I don’t see any reason that an 80-86 HVAC box would not bolt in.

It seems to me that the steering column hole is plenty large enough for the column with the ring/dust boot removed. I don’t know why one couldn’t just drill through the holes in the teardrop plate and bolt through the firewall?

So that was my homework on dash swapping. Then I came home and actually found a 1992 diesel truck wire harness on eBay. No, I have not pulled the trigger on it. The price is $200 +$84 shipping. The pictures show burned connectors, but in the description the seller says it is pictures of the wrong harness and that he will update the listing. I’m not getting warm fuzzy feelings.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F293268429790

Between that and the LMC core support, the delivered price would come close to what I paid for the whole truck. Sometimes I am in favor of paying a premium to get rid of a problem and make it go away, but I’m not feeling it this time. I may regret passing it up, but I want to check some more junkyards first.

[grumpin]

I was able to investigate another salvage yard this afternoon in Lake Havasu AZ. They had an Aeronose diesel but it was a computerized Powerstroke, and unfortunately the radiator support was already gone. Access to the vehicles was terrible, and there was no organization whatsoever. *But... the vehicles were not as systematically picked over and the items I inquired about seemed reasonably priced. I would go back...

I didn’t buy any parts but I did score some excellent photos of Bullnose dash mounting and what the Aeronose HVAC ducts look like. I’m sure these are nothing remarkable, but useful when you do not have photographic memory:

The main issues that I see with fitting this dash into an Aeronose cab are the missing supports spot welded to the firewall (for pedal box, center dash support rod, and HVAC duct mounting point) plus the reduced/missing ledge at the bottom of the windshield. I think the speaker support could be creatively fastened to support the center, but the top corner bolts have nothing to fasten to (all of this is just as Shaun already described with the bricknose cab). I believe the exterior boxes are identical 80-96 with the exception that 87+ has an add-on for a vacuum control in the engine bay. Note also that the replacement blend door says fitment is for 80-96. I don’t see any reason that an 80-86 HVAC box would not bolt in.

It seems to me that the steering column hole is plenty large enough for the column with the ring/dust boot removed. I don’t know why one couldn’t just drill through the holes in the teardrop plate and bolt through the firewall?

So that was my homework on dash swapping. Then I came home and actually found a 1992 diesel truck wire harness on eBay. No, I have not pulled the trigger on it. The price is $200 +$84 shipping. The pictures show burned connectors, but in the description the seller says it is pictures of the wrong harness and that he will update the listing. I’m not getting warm fuzzy feelings.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F293268429790

Between that and the LMC core support, the delivered price would come close to what I paid for the whole truck. Sometimes I am in favor of paying a premium to get rid of a problem and make it go away, but I’m not feeling it this time. I may regret passing it up, but I want to check some more junkyards first.

They have any bullnoses in that junkyard in Lake Havasu?

I go there sometimes. Might swing by next time I’m there.

[Rembrant]

I was able to investigate another salvage yard this afternoon in Lake Havasu AZ. They had an Aeronose diesel but it was a computerized Powerstroke, and unfortunately the radiator support was already gone. Access to the vehicles was terrible, and there was no organization whatsoever. *But... the vehicles were not as systematically picked over and the items I inquired about seemed reasonably priced. I would go back...

I didn’t buy any parts but I did score some excellent photos of Bullnose dash mounting and what the Aeronose HVAC ducts look like. I’m sure these are nothing remarkable, but useful when you do not have photographic memory:

The main issues that I see with fitting this dash into an Aeronose cab are the missing supports spot welded to the firewall (for pedal box, center dash support rod, and HVAC duct mounting point) plus the reduced/missing ledge at the bottom of the windshield. I think the speaker support could be creatively fastened to support the center, but the top corner bolts have nothing to fasten to (all of this is just as Shaun already described with the bricknose cab). I believe the exterior boxes are identical 80-96 with the exception that 87+ has an add-on for a vacuum control in the engine bay. Note also that the replacement blend door says fitment is for 80-96. I don’t see any reason that an 80-86 HVAC box would not bolt in.

It seems to me that the steering column hole is plenty large enough for the column with the ring/dust boot removed. I don’t know why one couldn’t just drill through the holes in the teardrop plate and bolt through the firewall?

So that was my homework on dash swapping. Then I came home and actually found a 1992 diesel truck wire harness on eBay. No, I have not pulled the trigger on it. The price is $200 +$84 shipping. The pictures show burned connectors, but in the description the seller says it is pictures of the wrong harness and that he will update the listing. I’m not getting warm fuzzy feelings.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F293268429790

Between that and the LMC core support, the delivered price would come close to what I paid for the whole truck. Sometimes I am in favor of paying a premium to get rid of a problem and make it go away, but I’m not feeling it this time. I may regret passing it up, but I want to check some more junkyards first.

Hey Jon,

I haven't paid close attention to the aeronose trucks before, but in looking at this firewall pic, it doesn't look like swapping in an older steering column would all that bad. I know it's easier said than done, but still. If you bought a firewall brace, and bolted it in place using the clutch master cylinder hole bolts pictured, it would locate the teardrop hole for you perfectly.

You could install a piece from an older truck's firewall much like Dave did with his AC, but that's a lot of work. Personally I would install the brace on the inside and a sheet metal plate on the outside painted to match. Nobody would ever even notice it.

That is if you're even leaning towards that swap...

I've thought about this before because I've looked at trucks for sale with the full intention of converting to a Bullnose.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hey Jon,

I haven't paid close attention to the aeronose trucks before, but in looking at this firewall pic, it doesn't look like swapping in an older steering column would all that bad. I know it's easier said than done, but still. If you bought a firewall brace, and bolted it in place using the clutch master cylinder hole bolts pictured, it would locate the teardrop hole for you perfectly.

You could install a piece from an older truck's firewall much like Dave did with his AC, but that's a lot of work. Personally I would install the brace on the inside and a sheet metal plate on the outside painted to match. Nobody would ever even notice it.

That is if you're even leaning towards that swap...

I've thought about this before because I've looked at trucks for sale with the full intention of converting to a Bullnose.

One minor gotcha to your reasoning, Cory is that the later (aero) trucks used a master cylinder with the studs on the diagonal, instead of one above the other.

They also used a clutch switch that mounts on the cab side of the master (concentric to the pushrod)

Instead of the ratcheting rack on the pedal itself as Gary has shown.

So, a harness variation and a difference in hardware.

Nothing insurmountable.

Other that the stub steering shaft and different punch out for it, I'm not certain what else is different or if the reinforcement plate will indeed fit the aero firewall in that location.

I'm not trying to be negative Nancy, I'm just trying to recall all the subtle differences across generations that could rear their ugly head.

Forewarned is forarmed.

[Rembrant]

One minor gotcha to your reasoning, Cory is that the later (aero) trucks used a master cylinder with the studs on the diagonal, instead of one above the other.

Other that the stub steering shaft and different punch out for it, I'm not certain what else is different or if the reinforcement plate will indeed fit the aero firewall in that location.

The clutch master cylinder stud locations wouldn't matter for the point I'm making. The firewall reinforcement brace has holes for both the straight up and down studs, and diagonal. I just meant that the firewall brace can be used as a location template. As long as you have one hole to register to...like the clutch master hole, it will automatically locate the steering column hole. Same in reverse...if you were converting an auto trans truck to manual, you could bolt the firewall brace to the teardrop steering column hole and perfectly locate the clutch master cylinder hole.

The other thing is, while the firewall brace was meant to support the clutch master cylinder, it also adds quite a bit of support around the steering column hole. So...if you were trying to swap an 80-91 column into an Aeronose truck, the brace would probably help support the column.

I was just thinking out loud is all...

Now whether the brace fits the Aero truck at all, I have no idea, but I don't see why it wouldn't. In the case of doing a Bullnose interior swap, I'd make it fit...lol.

Good point on the clutch master switch. I hadn't thought of that at all because I was thinking of swapping older stuff into the newer cab. I guess if you're using a pedal set from the aero cab, then yes you'll need the later master with the switch. However, if you're swapping in an older pedal set, then it would have a clutch switch already, and you could just use an 83-91 clutch master.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

One minor gotcha to your reasoning, Cory is that the later (aero) trucks used a master cylinder with the studs on the diagonal, instead of one above the other.

Other that the stub steering shaft and different punch out for it, I'm not certain what else is different or if the reinforcement plate will indeed fit the aero firewall in that location.

The clutch master cylinder stud locations wouldn't matter for the point I'm making. The firewall reinforcement brace has holes for both the straight up and down studs, and diagonal. I just meant that the firewall brace can be used as a location template. As long as you have one hole to register to...like the clutch master hole, it will automatically locate the steering column hole. Same in reverse...if you were converting an auto trans truck to manual, you could bolt the firewall brace to the teardrop steering column hole and perfectly locate the clutch master cylinder hole.

The other thing is, while the firewall brace was meant to support the clutch master cylinder, it also adds quite a bit of support around the steering column hole. So...if you were trying to swap an 80-91 column into an Aeronose truck, the brace would probably help support the column.

I was just thinking out loud is all...

Now whether the brace fits the Aero truck at all, I have no idea, but I don't see why it wouldn't. In the case of doing a Bullnose interior swap, I'd make it fit...lol.

Good point on the clutch master switch. I hadn't thought of that at all because I was thinking of swapping older stuff into the newer cab. I guess if you're using a pedal set from the aero cab, then yes you'll need the later master with the switch. However, if you're swapping in an older pedal set, then it would have a clutch switch already, and you could just use an 83-91 clutch master.

Oh, I didn't realize that.

I have the smaller (triangle) brace, and it only has vertical holes.

100% in agreement with the rest of your points.

Just things to note, before digging in.

[Rembrant]

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Well, I'm pretty sure the Terrapin made brace did, which is now NLA, but not sure on the KBG brace.

Bronco Graveyard brace...

Now discontinued Terrapin brace (This is the one I have in my truck)

Different masters...I originally bought the wrong one by mistake.

The braces have a slotted hole on the bottom, and two separate ones on the top. Pretty sure it fits both.

 

[Rembrant]

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Well, I'm pretty sure the Terrapin made brace did, which is now NLA, but not sure on the KBG brace.

Bronco Graveyard brace...

Now discontinued Terrapin brace (This is the one I have in my truck)

Different masters...I originally bought the wrong one by mistake.

The braces have a slotted hole on the bottom, and two separate ones on the top. Pretty sure it fits both.

By the way...regarding the steering column swap, it almost looks like the round hole in the Aeronose firewall lands right in the circular portion of the teardrop in the 1980-1991 cab. No idea if it actually does...but it looks that way at a glance.

I know this swap has been done, but I don't know of all the fine details. There was a local guy here with a 1995 cab swapped on to a 1985 truck and he did a Bullnose interior swap too.