F-Superduty IDI water hauler build

[Ford F834]

Last Saturday Lands Transport LLC dropped off an engine-less 1995 Ford F-Supetduty in my front yard. It will become our water hauler and work truck for building a house. I am going to need a fair bit of help with this, especially in the compatibility of parts across 7th, 8th, and 9th generation body style eras.

As I looked it over today, all I could think was ‘what did I do!’. I have a bad feeling I am going to regret this purchase because of the labor and cost required to get it where I need it, but that I will be truly happy with the results. Compared to other trucks I considered purchasing, the wheelbase and rear end gear ratio of this one make it pretty special and probably worth the headache. It was an EFI 460 truck converted to a 5.9 Cummins diesel, then the engine was sold out of it. It’s hacked. The Knapheide utility body won’t carry my water tank and will have to come off.

The engine that will go in is a very late s/n 6.9L IDI diesel. It is in a 1989 bricknose supercab F250, but is not the original engine. I got this engine to start and run on a can of fresh diesel, and it sounds great. It has minimal blow by for an IDI. It’s grimy, but not puking oil the way worn out ones do. I’m confident it will be good to run a while as-is. The donor truck is a ZF5 close ratio 4wd, but I also have a wide ratio ZF5 available that can be drilled to mate with the IDI bellhousing and alignment dowel pattern.

So far so good... an engineless truck and an engine donor (complete vehicle). 👍 But this is where the body style differences start to rain on my parade.

First order of business- I need to run the HUGE diesel radiator. The core support on the F-Superduty has had a sawzall taken to it on more than one occasion, and is too short for the diesel radiator:

I have a Bullnose and a Bricknose core support, but no Aeronose diesel core support.

To continue using the Aeronose front clip, I would need:

- IDI diesel core support (LMC carries reproduction ones)

- Plastic grille parts

To use a Bricknose front clip I would need:

-Both front fenders

To use a Bullnose front clip I would need:

-Both front fenders

-Both inner fender aprons

Second order of business- wiring. I have a complete cab and engine harness from a 1986 IDI diesel truck. I have the complete harness from the bricknose donor truck. I have no source for an Aeronose IDI harness. Even if I could physically make the wires fit, the earlier harnesses would be problematic with the Aeronose interior because of the very different HVAC control system, and the movement of high beam light functions and windshield wiper controls to the turn signal lever. Also note that whoever performed the Cummins swap removed the instrument cluster completely, and installed a set of aftermarket gauges. The Speedometer is driven electrically off of a pulse generator in the tailshaft of the Dodge Getrag 360 5-speed transmission that is still in the truck. I will not have a way to make this work with the IDI. If I want to run a mechanical speedometer, I will have to run either a transfer case, or my DNE2 overdrive unit (my preference). I don’t know of a way to elegantly run a mechanical speedometer in an Aeronose dash cluster. Also, the turn signal switch assembly in this column is broken, and the keys were lost. The only way the transport company was able to guide it onto their trailer was to disconnect the intermediate shaft. So there’s that. The engine bay HVAC box is melted from some mishap with the Cummins, probably running it without a downpipe.

This is probably the most challenging part of the whole project. Figuring out what to use as far as the wiring and interior. Sure. The IDI is great in that it only takes one wire to the FSS to run, but there is also the starting circuit, charging circuit, and for glow plug functionality, cold advance on the IP, and gauge function including tachometer it requires a bit more. I have all the wrong puzzle pieces and I’m not liking any of my options:

1a) Farmer rig the existing 460 wiring. Fix the column switch and key problems. Attempt to find aftermarket tach and speedometer solutions. Fix Engine ba HVAC box. 1b) would be the same thing except with the extraordinary good luck of finding an Aeronose IDI wire harness in acceptable condition. I’m not really counting on this as an option and the speedometer might still be an issue?

2) Bricknose interior and wiring swap. I have pretty much everything from the donor except crank window door panels. From what I read this would be a LOT of labor and fabrication. I bought one of the Aeronose steering column boots where it goes through the firewall. The rubber is very thin and soft compared to the 80-91 tear drop plug, but definitely big enough for a floor shift manual column without shift linkages to go through if the rubber was trimmed. It might still be desirable to bolt the teardrop frame through the firewall to help support and position the column, but it seems doable. This thread is the reverse (installing Aeronose interior into a Bricknose) but it is a useful read to understand the differences:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1428947-obs-dash-swap-in-a-brick-nose-detailed.html

3) Same as 2 but with a Bullnose interior. Same problem (lots of fabrication), but I have a wire harness and many of the parts. I would need to source an inside HVAC box, controller, and vent ducts. I also can’t remember if I have a spare pedal box or not, but I can get one in my local junkyard along with the missing HVAV and dash stuff if I were to go this route.

The bed: the utility body has to go. One of the toolbox doors is damaged (sadly) but I might still get a few bucks for this thing after I cut all of the welds holding it to the frame. The wheelbase is 137” which is just +4” from a regular single cab long bed. I did find a local ad for a DRW pickup bed for 200$ but some creativity is needed in dealing with the extra 4” of space between the cab. Some have shifted the axle forward and trimmed the frame... that’s not happening. Some have put a headache rack frame there to blend the space. I currently have an exhaust stack there which would hide a gap but it is only one side and would look fairly janky.

I have found a couple of flatbeds at the junkyard, but they are fairly huge for what I need. They are asking 450$ and would be another project to re-size them. I don’t think I would want one over 9’ long, and not much if any wider than the wheels (~89”)

 

There are also add-on dually flare sets you can buy for SRW beds. These could potential be mounted 4” further back on the bed than the original fender opening, and I do have the ‘89 donor’s bed. It has rot in the arches but the floor is “good enough”. The price is a bit steep at $500 for a set, but it is an option. I’ve never thought flatbeds were very functional without sides to contain the cargo, but I’ve not owned one to know their advantages.

A couple of last thoughts... anyone have any clue what to ask price-wise for the utility body or the 2wd Getrag 5-speed? The paint job on the F-Superduty looks pretty clean in the pics, and isn’t bad, but also isn’t original. It is a chalky single stage home made repaint. If I mix-n-match front clip parts and spray it again myself to match I won’t be loosing anything or messing up factory paint. I have a bearing kit coming for an ATS 088 turbo kit that I have sitting on the side. It’s a horrible turbo, non wastegated with an AR of 1.00 or 1.10 which is ridiculous and a badly matched cold side wheel. However, it is still better than no turbo at all. It has shaft end play, but the bearing kit is only $59 so it is worth a go. On the 088 the up pipe and down pipe are all cast into one bizarre looking exhaust housing, so there is no T3 or T4 flange upon which one could mount another turbo. Another turbo with a p-trim exhaust wheel could potentially be grafted in, but at a point it is better to source a more versatile kit. I just have it on the side so I figure I will put it on. It is mild enough not to bother a 6.9 with stock head bolts.

[Rembrant]

As I looked it over today, all I could think was ‘what did I do!’. I have a bad feeling I am going to regret this purchase because of the labor and cost required to get it where I need it...

Oh man, I have been there so many times...standing over a pile of whatever I just dragged home asking myself what on earth did I just do?>..lol.

The truck looks great! THe mechanical work all seems pretty straight forward no? It is the wiring that is going to take some tongue biting to sort out. I like the idea of the headache rack too, to fill up the potential space between the cab and box...but a nice flat deck would look pretty good too.

I'll be following along with this build.

Our local junkyard had an F350 diesel that came in a few months ago, and I'm sure it was a 1995. It was one of those airport trucks with the rear wheels almost hitting the cab, but it was 100% complete. I'll check it out this weekend and see if it's still there and not picked clean in case there are any little odds and ends you need.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, you've gone and done it now, Jonathan!

You know where I stand on the bull, brick, aero debate.

Be aware that the aero cowl won't line up with the brick hood if you choose to go that way.

[Ford F834]

As I looked it over today, all I could think was ‘what did I do!’. I have a bad feeling I am going to regret this purchase because of the labor and cost required to get it where I need it...

Oh man, I have been there so many times...standing over a pile of whatever I just dragged home asking myself what on earth did I just do?>..lol.

The truck looks great! THe mechanical work all seems pretty straight forward no? It is the wiring that is going to take some tongue biting to sort out. I like the idea of the headache rack too, to fill up the potential space between the cab and box...but a nice flat deck would look pretty good too.

I'll be following along with this build.

Our local junkyard had an F350 diesel that came in a few months ago, and I'm sure it was a 1995. It was one of those airport trucks with the rear wheels almost hitting the cab, but it was 100% complete. I'll check it out this weekend and see if it's still there and not picked clean in case there are any little odds and ends you need.

Thanks Cory, if it is a ‘95 and a diesel then it has to be the computerized Powerstroke 7.3, not IDI. The core support would be the same ha ha, but not worth shipping. The wiring would be completely different, but I believe the cluster is the same. That said, I might actually have a diesel Aeronose tach that could possibly plug into any 92-96 cluster? I would have to ask a group that knows the Aeronose IDI’s. Using a bricknose cluster in an Aeronose dash might also be within the realm of farmer rigged possibilities.

Jim, I have indeed done it now! Any way I slice this it’s going to be a big project. That’s exactly what I didn’t want, but years from now when I’m still hauling water I will thank myself for the pickup-like wheelbase instead of a 20’ flatbed or even a 12’ one. And 4.63 rear gears instead of 5.13 will help keep the IDI in its happy place for rpm’s. I’m trying to tell myself the juice will be worth the squeeze. Thanks for the heads up on the cowl piece. I remember reading that somewhere. I do have the polka dot one on the 89 donor if I end up having to go with a clip swap. I’m not fond of mis-matched interiors/exteriors, but I am feeling the pressure of this project going towards the path of least resistance with the parts I have available.

[Rembrant]

Thanks Cory, if it is a ‘95 and a diesel then it has to be the computerized Powerstroke 7.3, not IDI. The core support would be the same ha ha, but not worth shipping.

The shipping on that would cost as much as a whole truck;).

I was thinking more of the little type "small box" items, and even then, they'd have to be something obscure that you couldn't find at home. Still, I've shipped parts all over the place...most recently Australia to Darin, but also all over the US. It has to make sense of course. YOu guys have much bigger junkyards than I do.

Can't wait to see how this progresses though. This will be a cool build. If I had the time and money, I'd have a yard full of stuff like this to work on.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

That dually box looks pretty rough.

Do you have a tailgate and lights to fit it?

Is the harness there?

How is the fuel fill set up in the utility box?

I'd be tempted to fab my own flatbed with stake sides for when I need them.

Being removable makes it muck easier to get big loads on and off with a forklift.

For the price of some channel/box and a can of stick electrodes you could have a deck that is exactly how you want it.

Of course, around here I have as much oak trailer decking as I want for the price of a six-pack.

[Gary Lewis]

That dually box looks pretty rough.

Do you have a tailgate and lights to fit it?

Is the harness there?

How is the fuel fill set up in the utility box?

I'd be tempted to fab my own flatbed with stake sides for when I need them.

Being removable makes it muck easier to get big loads on and off with a forklift.

For the price of some channel/box and a can of stick electrodes you could have a deck that is exactly how you want it.

Of course, around here I have as much oak trailer decking as I want for the price of a six-pack.

Well, this certainly is a PROJECT!

Are you SURE that you can't use something like a 4-core radiator for a 460? (I know nothing about the diesels and their cooling requirements, but thought I'd ask.)

As for instrumentation, if the cab harness isn't in too bad of shape I might be inclined to stay with it and source the right cluster.

On the HVAC, I have some Bullnose stuff, both interior and underhood. But shipping might be pricey on it. However, it is an option.

[Frank Wyatt]

Well, this certainly is a PROJECT!

Are you SURE that you can't use something like a 4-core radiator for a 460? (I know nothing about the diesels and their cooling requirements, but thought I'd ask.)

As for instrumentation, if the cab harness isn't in too bad of shape I might be inclined to stay with it and source the right cluster.

On the HVAC, I have some Bullnose stuff, both interior and underhood. But shipping might be pricey on it. However, it is an option.

Yep, it looks like you stepped in it now, but I believe you'll be happier with the end result than the other options you had looked at. Your experience and talent will come in handy with this project. It would not be hard to build a flat bed sized to suit your needs and a set of removable or swing down side panels would give you the advantage of the pick up box with the versatility of the flat bed. A dash swap would not be too difficult once all components are sourced or how ever you decide to go on the interior but am sure that's further down the list of things to do as it would be on mine. Once it is all done I am sure you'll be happy with your decision and it will be YOUR truck, set up just the way you want it.

[Ford F834]

Well, this certainly is a PROJECT!

Are you SURE that you can't use something like a 4-core radiator for a 460? (I know nothing about the diesels and their cooling requirements, but thought I'd ask.)

As for instrumentation, if the cab harness isn't in too bad of shape I might be inclined to stay with it and source the right cluster.

On the HVAC, I have some Bullnose stuff, both interior and underhood. But shipping might be pricey on it. However, it is an option.

Gary, thank you very much for the offer on parts. I suspect you are correct, that shipping may be more expensive than the salvage yard prices on some of this, but if I am having difficulty finding something I will ask.

The IDI radiator is absolutely massive. I would consider something like a 460 radiator for a diesel Bronco or light truck conversion, but for a heavy work truck I’m not inclined to risk it. If I end up hauling a flatbed load of cement sacks up the ten mile stretch of 6% grade from Bullhead in 120* summer heat I don’t want to wonder whether the radiator is going to cut it. I have the IDI radiator, and it looks to be in decent shape.

I still need to crawl up under the dash and/or pull the dash apart to see what shape the Aeronose wiring is in. I don’t know if the cluster wiring is intact or if the P.O. butchered it. I know the starting and charging circuits are badly hacked. Still, fixing and sorting that out is probably less work than getting bogged down with a full on interior swap?

Frank, thank you for the kind words and vote of confidence. I am sure I will be happy once it’s done, I just wish I had more of the right puzzle pieces 😕

Jim, the dually truck box is indeed a bit on the rough side, as one would expect for the price. I found a Bullnose one as well, also for $200, but looks even rougher:

For me, fabricating a flatbed is challenging to source the steel and I don’t have a great work area to build something like this. It is probably my most expensive and time consuming option. I am really hoping to find something already made, or use a regular DRW bed. It is also something I could change later, but I have to be able to fit the water tank now, and I would rather get it right the first time.

[salans7]

I still need to crawl up under the dash and/or pull the dash apart to see what shape the Aeronose wiring is in. I don’t know if the cluster wiring is intact or if the P.O. butchered it. I know the starting and charging circuits are badly hacked. Still, fixing and sorting that out is probably less work than getting bogged down with a full on interior swap?

The wiring harness in my truck was not badly hacked, however the fuse box and a few of the wires and terminals were severely melted. I was able to replace the fuse box with the one from my new cab, and luckily many of the wires that burned were the same color on the bricknose fuse box. That made it much simpler and each wire that was burned was cut down and spliced with the matching wires in the bricknose fuse box. Also, I had to remove all of the EFI wiring from the rear harness since the harness was from a 302 truck and I have no intention of running either of those. Then there were the non-existent license plate lamps I had to add in since the truck left the factory without a rear bumper option.

All of that on top of swapping on the bullnose dash. I definitely wouldn't be afraid of fixing the wiring. Fixing mine allowed me to gauge the shape of the harness and fix anything that might set the truck in flames.