EFI For Big Blue

[ArdWrknTrk]

As said, the valve covers that Jim pulled from the 1995 F450 came in last night. I ran them through the parts washer this morning to get the goo off, and they came out nice and clean. And then I put the more-corroded one in the blast cabinet to see how it would clean up. Here's a shot of it with its brother that hasn't been blasted. I'm quite pleased as there's enough texture for the powder to grab but not enough to show through the powder. I'm still going with wrinkle/crinkle black, but I'm not sure it would be necessary.

As for the differences between the early and late 460 EFI valve covers, here's a shot of the early ones above and the late ones below. Easily seen is the grommet for the push-in PCV valve on the early cover vs the screw-in PCV valve on the later one. There are at least two other differences. One that is visible in this shot is that the little "lands" that the wire retainers go into, shown in the top left of the shot, are bigger on the earlier covers. And, those holes on the later covers are tapped 8-1.25mm while the early ones aren't tapped.

Here's a shot of the other difference, although you really can't tell in the pic. Anyway, the groove for the o-ring is deeper on the later valve covers. Here are the measurements:

• Early Covers: .162" wide x .162" deep (E7TE-6583-EE & E7TE-6583-EE)

• Late Covers: .162" wide x .234" deep (F5TE-6582-BA & F5TE-6A505-DA)

I'm glad these are going to work out for Big Blue.

You sure have done a wonderful job cleaning them up!

 

[Gary Lewis]

I'm glad these are going to work out for Big Blue.

You sure have done a wonderful job cleaning them up!

Thanks. It did take some cleaning, but it wasn't all that difficult.

My parts washer runs Simple Green at 130 degrees, which does a good job of taking off sludge, but not coke. The covers off of Huck were coked up inside and that's why I left one soaking overnight, which stripped off some of the plating. Fortunately these covers just had sludge, and a bath in the washer with the lid closed started melting the sludge out, and a bit of agitation with a brush finished the job - both inside and out.

Then a trip to the media blaster cleaned the outside of the passenger's side cover. It did take quite a bit of blasting as I'm using a really fine media and it doesn't work very quickly. But now I know that the covers are going to be just right, so now that they are clean I can tuck them away with all the other parts I'm placing in totes to free up space to start working on Dad's truck.

(That's my story and I'm sticking to it. In reality I was itching to clean them and blast them to see how they'd turn out. Besides, that's a lot more fun than cleaning the shop. )

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks. It did take some cleaning, but it wasn't all that difficult.

My parts washer runs Simple Green at 130 degrees, which does a good job of taking off sludge, but not coke. The covers off of Huck were coked up inside and that's why I left one soaking overnight, which stripped off some of the plating. Fortunately these covers just had sludge, and a bath in the washer with the lid closed started melting the sludge out, and a bit of agitation with a brush finished the job - both inside and out.

Then a trip to the media blaster cleaned the outside of the passenger's side cover. It did take quite a bit of blasting as I'm using a really fine media and it doesn't work very quickly. But now I know that the covers are going to be just right, so now that they are clean I can tuck them away with all the other parts I'm placing in totes to free up space to start working on Dad's truck.

(That's my story and I'm sticking to it. In reality I was itching to clean them and blast them to see how they'd turn out. Besides, that's a lot more fun than cleaning the shop. )

Well, I know another "must" for Big Blue's transformation - a clutch safety switch. Had just moved the trailer out for a run to my neighbor's business in T-town to pick up some surplus pallet racks, and had used the front-mounted hitch - I'm loving that thing.

Got done with that but had noticed that there is a lot of clunking going on during sharp transitions so while standing outside I turned the key on to release the steering lock to check the frame at the steering box - and I turned the switch a teensy bit too far. Just a quick tap, but couple a gigantic battery, a PMGR starter, a T-19 in creeper gear, and a BW1356 in 4Lo, and it started. Moved about 3' before I could get it stopped.

No damage done to anything but my ego, but man that was scary! I really, REALLY have to fix that. There is no clutch safety switch and there's a jumper plugged into the connector. But, it is a jury-rigged connector, not a factory one as if it had originally had an auto. So, while I'm up under there changing out the brake pedal for the hydro-boost one I'll have to install a switch.

 

[1986F150Six]

Well, I know another "must" for Big Blue's transformation - a clutch safety switch. Had just moved the trailer out for a run to my neighbor's business in T-town to pick up some surplus pallet racks, and had used the front-mounted hitch - I'm loving that thing.

Got done with that but had noticed that there is a lot of clunking going on during sharp transitions so while standing outside I turned the key on to release the steering lock to check the frame at the steering box - and I turned the switch a teensy bit too far. Just a quick tap, but couple a gigantic battery, a PMGR starter, a T-19 in creeper gear, and a BW1356 in 4Lo, and it started. Moved about 3' before I could get it stopped.

No damage done to anything but my ego, but man that was scary! I really, REALLY have to fix that. There is no clutch safety switch and there's a jumper plugged into the connector. But, it is a jury-rigged connector, not a factory one as if it had originally had an auto. So, while I'm up under there changing out the brake pedal for the hydro-boost one I'll have to install a switch.

Gary, several years ago, I found (2) of the factory clutch safety switches [NOS]. One was installed on my 1986 and you got the second one. See if you still have it or the box... that will provide the needed numbers.

Well, I know another "must" for Big Blue's transformation - a clutch safety switch.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, several years ago, I found (2) of the factory clutch safety switches [NOS]. One was installed on my 1986 and you got the second one. See if you still have it or the box... that will provide the needed numbers.

Well, I know another "must" for Big Blue's transformation - a clutch safety switch.

David - Yes, I have the switch, and thanks to you, again, for finding them. But I can use it for Big Blue instead of on Dad's truck since Dad's is going E4OD. I just need to figure out how to get up to where the switch goes to install it. As you can see from the drawing below, it goes at the top of the clutch pedal and requires a contortionist with little hands.

I'm thinking the time to do it is when the brake pedal comes out to swap in the hydro-boost pedal. If I were to pull the whole pedal assembly I could check/replace the bushings, swap pedals, and install the switch on the bench instead of upside down on my back. And since the pedal assembly is held in with bolts that secure the brake booster, which also is getting changed out, that would seem like the time to do it.

And, while I'm at it, maybe I'll pull the steering column and go through it. I recently discovered some slop in it, and that may be contributing to the imprecise steering.

[1986F150Six]

I'm thinking the time to do it is when the brake pedal comes out to swap in the hydro-boost pedal. If I were to pull the whole pedal assembly I could check/replace the bushings, swap pedals, and install the switch on the bench instead of upside down on my back. And since the pedal assembly is held in with bolts that secure the brake booster, which also is getting changed out, that would seem like the time to do it.

And, while I'm at it, maybe I'll pull the steering column and go through it. I recently discovered some slop in it, and that may be contributing to the imprecise steering.

Peeling the onion's layers?

 

[Gary Lewis]

I'm thinking the time to do it is when the brake pedal comes out to swap in the hydro-boost pedal. If I were to pull the whole pedal assembly I could check/replace the bushings, swap pedals, and install the switch on the bench instead of upside down on my back. And since the pedal assembly is held in with bolts that secure the brake booster, which also is getting changed out, that would seem like the time to do it.

And, while I'm at it, maybe I'll pull the steering column and go through it. I recently discovered some slop in it, and that may be contributing to the imprecise steering.

Peeling the onion's layers?

Yes, while peeling you might as well get the layers you can reach.

As for EFI'ing Big Blue, I've been trying to talk with the guys at Core Tuning for some time, and finally talked to both Ben and Adam yesterday. Adam and I discussed which cable/connection arrangement to use, but at the end of the conversation where we were talking about this the connection got really poor. I believe he said:

• Quarterhorse: This arrangement connects to the programming port on the back of the EEC box. It allows for instantaneous changes, but has a battery that needs charged periodically. Or, you can burn an EPROM with the parameters when you finally get it working.

• Mongoose: This approach connects to the OBD-II port and lets you data-log as well as program.

  But programming takes maybe 45 seconds as you are writing the whole thing into the computer instead of just the single parameter you want to change.

Bill - You have the Mongoose - right? I think that's the way for me to go, but just wanted to check.

Also, both Adam and Ben talked to me about a wide-band air/fuel monitor. (The O2 sensors on the factory EFI systems are narrow band units and really only tell the computer if the AFR is below or above the goal of 14.7:1. So it is hard, if not impossible, to use them to accurately tune a system. Enter the wide-band units that actually tell you the precise AFR.)

I have an AEM unit, but they don't think AEM's are very accurate as they usually read rich. But I think mine reads quite lean as on David's 300 six we saw an AFR of 17:1 and the engine was running fine. So, I want to find out what they recommend, which I think is Innovate. However, the AEM and Innovate units appear to communicate in different methods, so that will change the interface I need for data logging.

Anyway, there is a bit more to find out before I buy, but I am making progress.

[Ray Cecil]

Yes, while peeling you might as well get the layers you can reach.

As for EFI'ing Big Blue, I've been trying to talk with the guys at Core Tuning for some time, and finally talked to both Ben and Adam yesterday. Adam and I discussed which cable/connection arrangement to use, but at the end of the conversation where we were talking about this the connection got really poor. I believe he said:

• Quarterhorse: This arrangement connects to the programming port on the back of the EEC box. It allows for instantaneous changes, but has a battery that needs charged periodically. Or, you can burn an EPROM with the parameters when you finally get it working.

• Mongoose: This approach connects to the OBD-II port and lets you data-log as well as program.

  But programming takes maybe 45 seconds as you are writing the whole thing into the computer instead of just the single parameter you want to change.

Bill - You have the Mongoose - right? I think that's the way for me to go, but just wanted to check.

Also, both Adam and Ben talked to me about a wide-band air/fuel monitor. (The O2 sensors on the factory EFI systems are narrow band units and really only tell the computer if the AFR is below or above the goal of 14.7:1. So it is hard, if not impossible, to use them to accurately tune a system. Enter the wide-band units that actually tell you the precise AFR.)

I have an AEM unit, but they don't think AEM's are very accurate as they usually read rich. But I think mine reads quite lean as on David's 300 six we saw an AFR of 17:1 and the engine was running fine. So, I want to find out what they recommend, which I think is Innovate. However, the AEM and Innovate units appear to communicate in different methods, so that will change the interface I need for data logging.

Anyway, there is a bit more to find out before I buy, but I am making progress.

Gary,

Granted I haven't read through the entire thread...may I ask you why you aren't using an aftermarket self learning EFI system? Why use a factory setup?

[1986F150Six]

Gary,

Granted I haven't read through the entire thread...may I ask you why you aren't using an aftermarket self learning EFI system? Why use a factory setup?

Ray, Gary does most everything to make it easiest for his heirs to be able to maintain his "creations". Factory is more likely to have some form of long term support [even though through forums, etc., rather than through Ford].

[Gary Lewis]

Ray, Gary does most everything to make it easiest for his heirs to be able to maintain his "creations". Factory is more likely to have some form of long term support [even though through forums, etc., rather than through Ford].

Amen, brother! Couldn't have said it that well, so thanks David.

My son likes vehicles, but more driving/using them than working on them. And my daughter views vehicles as necessary to get from Point A to Point B. Who knows what their kids will be interested in doing with regard to maintaining vehicles. But I've come to realize that the chances of any of them finding a guru with carbs is pretty small, and the chances of one of the being that guru is slim to none.

So I came to the conclusion that going EFI was the best approach for them. But, with the research I've done I determined that the churn in aftermarket EFI systems is such that today's system is outdated tomorrow, so the odds of finding parts or a guru on a several-years-ago model when needed also seemed slim.

That turned me to Ford's EFI systems. However, the earlier ones, like the EEC-IV's, didn't have OBD-II ports and were speed-density and bank-fire systems. But, 1996 was the year that OBD-II was required, and with the help of guys on here I now have factory 1996 EFI systems for both Big Blue and Dad's truck. That means that when problems arise a tech somewhere can plug his standard scanner in and be told what the problem is, and standard Ford parts can be used to fix it.

And, on Dad's truck there's an added advantage - the EEC can also control the E4OD tranny. Otherwise I'd have to buy a standalone tranny controller in addition to the EFI system.

The downside to the EEC-V system is that you have to tune it somewhat as while it can learn it needs to be fairly close in the first place. Hence the need for Core Tuning and their s/w and h/w.