EFI For Big Blue

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, there are various tables in the spark control for the running conditions. There is not, from what I remember, a direct correlation between manifold vacuum and advance like you have in a conventional system. Since the MAF control does not measure the manifold vacuum it uses an alogrithm to develop an "inferred" value.

On the heads, I should have probably gotten with Scotty AKA "the mad porter" for exhaust side recommendations on mine as that is still the weak area.

You posted the stock HP and torque ratings for the 351M and 400 the other day, the 400's torque peak didn't really surprise me, that 3.98" stroke helps a lot and Ford usually tried for torque in their larger engines, the old MEL 430 comes to mind. I think the 1958 430 was 375 HP @ 4600 and 490 ft-lbs @ 3100.

Bill - I guess I have a whole lot to learn about the computers. Gonna be a steep learning curve, and I'll need help.

As for horsepower info, here's what I find in the 1983 dealer's fact book for a couple of the engines. And this provides a glimpse of why I like those books. Puts an end to lots of arguments about what HP and torque the engines had.

But, it raises lots and LOTS of questions. Like, why does the power of the 300 Six vary depending on what axle ratio you have? Or, why does a CA-spec 460 have more torque and at a lower RPM than a 49-state 460?

And, it also makes my idea of creating a table much, much more difficult as there isn't a single rating for any of the engines.

300 Six:

460:

[1986F150Six]

Bill - I guess I have a whole lot to learn about the computers. Gonna be a steep learning curve, and I'll need help.

As for horsepower info, here's what I find in the 1983 dealer's fact book for a couple of the engines. And this provides a glimpse of why I like those books. Puts an end to lots of arguments about what HP and torque the engines had.

But, it raises lots and LOTS of questions. Like, why does the power of the 300 Six vary depending on what axle ratio you have? Or, why does a CA-spec 460 have more torque and at a lower RPM than a 49-state 460?

And, it also makes my idea of creating a table much, much more difficult as there isn't a single rating for any of the engines.

300 Six:

460:

Gary, look at the RPM level for maximum torque regarding the 300 six [1400, 1600 & 2000]... low. On my truck, 1600 equates to 57.6 mph.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, look at the RPM level for maximum torque regarding the 300 six [1400, 1600 & 2000]... low. On my truck, 1600 equates to 57.6 mph.

Yep. But look at the rest of the gas-powered engines for 1983. Note that there was a version of the 351W that was rated at 2 more ft-lbs at 600 RPM less than the other one. Yes, it was down 8 HP, but it was the only 351W offered in CA in the pickups or Bronco.

302 2V:

351W 2V:

[1986F150Six]

Yep. But look at the rest of the gas-powered engines for 1983. Note that there was a version of the 351W that was rated at 2 more ft-lbs at 600 RPM less than the other one. Yes, it was down 8 HP, but it was the only 351W offered in CA in the pickups or Bronco.

302 2V:

351W 2V:

To me, the charts for the 300 six and the 351W look believable. It is as though each listed combination was tested and the outputs varied as one might expect from different engines.

The 302 and 460 charts look like the numbers were simply copied???

[85lebaront2]

Bill - I guess I have a whole lot to learn about the computers. Gonna be a steep learning curve, and I'll need help.

As for horsepower info, here's what I find in the 1983 dealer's fact book for a couple of the engines. And this provides a glimpse of why I like those books. Puts an end to lots of arguments about what HP and torque the engines had.

But, it raises lots and LOTS of questions. Like, why does the power of the 300 Six vary depending on what axle ratio you have? Or, why does a CA-spec 460 have more torque and at a lower RPM than a 49-state 460?

And, it also makes my idea of creating a table much, much more difficult as there isn't a single rating for any of the engines.

300 Six:

460:

Gary, on the engine ratings from 1983, first you would probably need to look at the emission parts list, break it down to PNs of everything that could affect the power curve then the specs on them, like carb jetting/metering rod and distributor advance curve. On the 460, it was a "oh shit, we need it back" deal for Ford so it may just have been a quick copy type deal.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, on the engine ratings from 1983, first you would probably need to look at the emission parts list, break it down to PNs of everything that could affect the power curve then the specs on them, like carb jetting/metering rod and distributor advance curve. On the 460, it was a "oh shit, we need it back" deal for Ford so it may just have been a quick copy type deal.

I now have the 1982 Dealer Facts Book and the 1983 Dealer Facts Book on the website. You can see the power info on the Power Trains tab on each.

[Gary Lewis]

I now have the 1982 Dealer Facts Book and the 1983 Dealer Facts Book on the website. You can see the power info on the Power Trains tab on each.

Well, it has been a long time since I updated this thread. And while I don't have a lot to report, I do have some - yesterday I picked up the heads from Weingartner Racing. Eric went through them and replaced many of the valves, did a 5-angle valve job, added new guides and seals, and checked the spring pressures and heights.

Speaking of the springs, he said that he got the correct spring pressures w/o shims, and that they are perfect for the lift that the Performer cam has - but not any more.

Today I ran a tap through ~50 holes on the heads to ensure they are clean and ready to go. And, to check that he got the stripped ones repaired. He did, but at one point I was quite concerned since my 3/8-16 tap slipped right into one of the exhaust bolt holes. Turns out that someone tapped that one 7/16" at some point, but it is good as well.

These are F3TE 6090-JA heads, which are the final iteration of 460 heads. And, they are said to be fairly good as they are a closed chamber head so you can get decent quench if the deck height is correct. I have no clue what pistons are in Big Blue nor what the deck height is, but we shall see. Anyway, they have fairly large valves (2.10/1.68") and look pretty good:

Here's a shot of an intake port:

And here's an exhaust port. Note that there's no thermactor bump, just a nice straight path for the gases.

So, once I get a bit more done on Dad's truck I'm in a position to start on Big Blue.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, it has been a long time since I updated this thread. And while I don't have a lot to report, I do have some - yesterday I picked up the heads from Weingartner Racing. Eric went through them and replaced many of the valves, did a 5-angle valve job, added new guides and seals, and checked the spring pressures and heights.

Speaking of the springs, he said that he got the correct spring pressures w/o shims, and that they are perfect for the lift that the Performer cam has - but not any more.

Today I ran a tap through ~50 holes on the heads to ensure they are clean and ready to go. And, to check that he got the stripped ones repaired. He did, but at one point I was quite concerned since my 3/8-16 tap slipped right into one of the exhaust bolt holes. Turns out that someone tapped that one 7/16" at some point, but it is good as well.

These are F3TE 6090-JA heads, which are the final iteration of 460 heads. And, they are said to be fairly good as they are a closed chamber head so you can get decent quench if the deck height is correct. I have no clue what pistons are in Big Blue nor what the deck height is, but we shall see. Anyway, they have fairly large valves (2.10/1.68") and look pretty good:

Here's a shot of an intake port:

And here's an exhaust port. Note that there's no thermactor bump, just a nice straight path for the gases.

So, once I get a bit more done on Dad's truck I'm in a position to start on Big Blue.

Time for another update on this quest as I just ordered the Core Tuning kit and the Innovate wide-band.

I had a good, 45-minute call with Adam of Core Tuning. And we worked through what I'm doing as well as what I need. On their end he recommended this package:

Direct Flash Package

1) Binary Editor w/Dongle

2) Includes All Supported Strategies

3) Pro Direct Flash Cable

4) OBDII License

5) Plus $20 Shipping (USPS)

Covers Lower 48 States

If later I decide I want to change parameters as I drive I can add the Quarterhorse cable for $250. But he doesn't think I'll need it.

As for the wide-band AFR meter, he recommended the Innovate MTX-L, and since they don't sell it I ordered it from Summit.

Plus I need a serial-to-USB converter, preferably one based on the Prolific chip, in order to interface the Innovate to my computer. So I ordered this one from Amazon.

The next step is to get my head around the software, and Adam strongly encouraged me to call him and he would remote-in to my computer and walk me through it. And, he suggested that I send him pics of the ECU's I have so he can make sure I have what I need, which I'll do in a bit.

Anyway, I'm getting the next project lined up.

 

[85lebaront2]

Time for another update on this quest as I just ordered the Core Tuning kit and the Innovate wide-band.

I had a good, 45-minute call with Adam of Core Tuning. And we worked through what I'm doing as well as what I need. On their end he recommended this package:

Direct Flash Package

1) Binary Editor w/Dongle

2) Includes All Supported Strategies

3) Pro Direct Flash Cable

4) OBDII License

5) Plus $20 Shipping (USPS)

Covers Lower 48 States

If later I decide I want to change parameters as I drive I can add the Quarterhorse cable for $250. But he doesn't think I'll need it.

As for the wide-band AFR meter, he recommended the Innovate MTX-L, and since they don't sell it I ordered it from Summit.

Plus I need a serial-to-USB converter, preferably one based on the Prolific chip, in order to interface the Innovate to my computer. So I ordered this one from Amazon.

The next step is to get my head around the software, and Adam strongly encouraged me to call him and he would remote-in to my computer and walk me through it. And, he suggested that I send him pics of the ECU's I have so he can make sure I have what I need, which I'll do in a bit.

Anyway, I'm getting the next project lined up.

Sounds very good sir, Adam is excellent at walking you through. If you need it for "learning" I can ship you my bench flash setup, or send you the information you need to build your own.

I am still in the "learning" mode on Chrysler SBECs, the first version, pre-air bag as Chrysler changed the steering columns in 1992 to use a completely different speed control interface.

[Gary Lewis]

Sounds very good sir, Adam is excellent at walking you through. If you need it for "learning" I can ship you my bench flash setup, or send you the information you need to build your own.

I am still in the "learning" mode on Chrysler SBECs, the first version, pre-air bag as Chrysler changed the steering columns in 1992 to use a completely different speed control interface.

Bill - I don't think I need a bench flash setup as I have this one: