Thoughts on a heavy hauler...

[grumpin]

Jim, you have an excellent eye... the tank is 9’ long and roughly 5’ diameter. For whatever reason, the compact density of water in a tank hauls much nicer than other loads of equal weight. I am guessing it is just the distribution and center of gravity. That all changes if the tank isn’t full. As you mentioned, if that weight starts moving things get exciting... fast!

Old55pete, your account of the F450 echos what others have said. The trucks are extremely capable but slow. 73mph is no doubt empty, or at least on flat ground. For my intended use that is a non issue. I am guessing it is still faster than an older F600/700. On the tires, the certification label says 235/85R16 E. That is what I currently run on my ‘81. The tire sidewall says at 80psi the load rating is 2778lbs run as duals. So times 4 would be 11,112lbs. If I had a light flatbed that would be just about the max, and I would prefer to seek out a 12 or 14 ply (rated) tire. I am aware that good rubber will not come cheap. A new set of F600 tires (if I were to go that route) might exceed the prices of the trucks I am looking at. This is part of the equation, and I suspect the F450 actually holds an advantage as far as tire price.

Grumpin, a non-CDL F600/700 might indeed allow me to haul even more than 1,000 gallons. I have thought about that since I own to of the basket tanks. If I can great, if not, 1,000 at a time will be wonderful. Our below ground cistern is 2,300 gallons. I will add another large above ground tank when we get more serious about gardening (a passion my wife and I share).

On the transmission, I pretty well know the T19 won’t get a 10,000 lb trailer rolling without using the transfer case low range. Our Streamline camper is 5,000 lbs and it does okay on the flat, but on any incline it really struggles (4.02 first gear x 3.00 axle gears). With the 275 gallon water tank (~2,300 lbs) it starts out with ease, but if I get too aggressive with the throttle and clutch I can smell the clutch. Pulling a 10,000 lb. trailer would be murder on the clutch if it worked at all. But I’m really thinking a heavier truck is going to be the thing to do...

Ok, that’s good you know where you stand with that tranny.

Hopefully the right option falls into your lap!

Out of curiosity, how long does 2300 gallons last? I ask because I bet I would cut down a lot if I had to get it like you do.

[Danny G]

These izuzu's have like 17000lb gvwr here are a few options maybe?

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/phoenix-2004-isuzu-npr-cab-chassis-10/7055376114.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/ctd/d/los-angeles-2004-isuzu-npr-nqr-hd-16/7053576822.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/phoenix-1991-gmc-moving-box-truckruns/7063981128.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/d/phoenix-ford-box-truck-runs-great/7071642421.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/payson-1994-gmc-box-truck-lift-gate/7055899446.html

7.3l international powered flat bed

https://prescott.craigslist.org/hvo/d/chino-valley-2000-international-4700/7060141974.html

 

[Ford F834]

These izuzu's have like 17000lb gvwr here are a few options maybe?

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/phoenix-2004-isuzu-npr-cab-chassis-10/7055376114.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/ctd/d/los-angeles-2004-isuzu-npr-nqr-hd-16/7053576822.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/phoenix-1991-gmc-moving-box-truckruns/7063981128.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/d/phoenix-ford-box-truck-runs-great/7071642421.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/payson-1994-gmc-box-truck-lift-gate/7055899446.html

7.3l international powered flat bed

https://prescott.craigslist.org/hvo/d/chino-valley-2000-international-4700/7060141974.html

Thanks for the links. I have looked at the Izuzu and they would surely haul the weight, but I guess I gravitate to vehicles I know more about. The Izuzu turbo diesels are probably efficient but I have no idea how they compare. Phoenix has the Craigslist deals, but I don’t usually look there. It is 3-4 hours from me, and I’ve had more bad experiences than good ones when responding to ad’s in Phoenix.

Grumpin, we need to be more careful than most with our water use, but it’s not easy. We have 5 people in our household, so there is plenty of laundry and dishes and bathing going on. In the winter the cistern will last about a week to ten days. (I figure a 275 gallon tank per day on average) in the summer the usage is double or more. We run 3-4 swamp coolers and they can evaporate ~75 gallons per day each. We have a limited garden which may not make monetary sense, but you can’t put a price on the therapeutic benefit and the quality of food.

I did contact the seller of this F450. He wants $1,000 for the truck. It had a 7.3 IDI in it that overheated and blew a head gasket. The engine is partially dismantled. He sold the ZF5 transmission, and unfortunately the related parts went with it (the driveline brake, the hydraulics and the pedal box). He also sold the passenger door. It’s been sitting about two years. The truck is ~75 miles away, so a towing bill needs figured into the price. I have a running 6.9 and ZF sitting in this parts truck:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Not-what-I-was-looking-for-but-I-could-not-pass-this-up-td33094.html

The missing hydroboost pedal and driveline brake are a little concerning for sourcing replacements. The missing door is just obnoxious but not a deal breaker. It’s more project than I really want, but the shoe somewhat fits regarding my parts truck. One thing I could do in place of the parking brake is mount the DNE2 overdrive that I have. I would then need a yoke mounted caliper parking brake and no doubt a driveshaft modification, but that might not be a bad alternative to buying the rare F450 brake since I would get a .80 overdrive out of the deal in case I did use it on the highway for other hauling. Next week I will price the towing bill, and maybe go have a look.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks for the links. I have looked at the Izuzu and they would surely haul the weight, but I guess I gravitate to vehicles I know more about. The Izuzu turbo diesels are probably efficient but I have no idea how they compare. Phoenix has the Craigslist deals, but I don’t usually look there. It is 3-4 hours from me, and I’ve had more bad experiences than good ones when responding to ad’s in Phoenix.

Grumpin, we need to be more careful than most with our water use, but it’s not easy. We have 5 people in our household, so there is plenty of laundry and dishes and bathing going on. In the winter the cistern will last about a week to ten days. (I figure a 275 gallon tank per day on average) in the summer the usage is double or more. We run 3-4 swamp coolers and they can evaporate ~75 gallons per day each. We have a limited garden which may not make monetary sense, but you can’t put a price on the therapeutic benefit and the quality of food.

I did contact the seller of this F450. He wants $1,000 for the truck. It had a 7.3 IDI in it that overheated and blew a head gasket. The engine is partially dismantled. He sold the ZF5 transmission, and unfortunately the related parts went with it (the driveline brake, the hydraulics and the pedal box). He also sold the passenger door. It’s been sitting about two years. The truck is ~75 miles away, so a towing bill needs figured into the price. I have a running 6.9 and ZF sitting in this parts truck:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Not-what-I-was-looking-for-but-I-could-not-pass-this-up-td33094.html

The missing hydroboost pedal and driveline brake are a little concerning for sourcing replacements. The missing door is just obnoxious but not a deal breaker. It’s more project than I really want, but the shoe somewhat fits regarding my parts truck. One thing I could do in place of the parking brake is mount the DNE2 overdrive that I have. I would then need a yoke mounted caliper parking brake and no doubt a driveshaft modification, but that might not be a bad alternative to buying the rare F450 brake since I would get a .80 overdrive out of the deal in case I did use it on the highway for other hauling. Next week I will price the towing bill, and maybe go have a look.

Jonathan,

The newly rebuilt brake from the 450 I parted may still be available.

I don't think the brake or Zf ever found a home....

I'm down at my sister's right now, but she's on the mend and I have things to attend to.

I hope to be back in CT by midweek and will look into it.

While I know it's a heavy chunk to ship, I also know it is right for that truck.

I'll have to ask Don if he's got it and what he'd want for it.

I can usually barter some truck repairs or welding for parts.

[Ford F834]

Jonathan,

The newly rebuilt brake from the 450 I parted may still be available.

I don't think the brake or Zf ever found a home....

I'm down at my sister's right now, but she's on the mend and I have things to attend to.

I hope to be back in CT by midweek and will look into it.

While I know it's a heavy chunk to ship, I also know it is right for that truck.

I'll have to ask Don if he's got it and what he'd want for it.

I can usually barter some truck repairs or welding for parts.

Thank you Jim. That would be helpful if I make a deal on this rig. Do you happen to know if E4OD trucks had this, or was it ZF only?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thank you Jim. That would be helpful if I make a deal on this rig. Do you happen to know if E4OD trucks had this, or was it ZF only?

I'm pretty sure it is Federal regulation that all vehicles must have a mechanical means of emergency braking, or default to stop, like air brakes.

Of course this doesn't address what happens if you lose a U-joint in your 450. 😲

[Rembrant]

Grumpin, we need to be more careful than most with our water use, but it’s not easy. We have 5 people in our household, so there is plenty of laundry and dishes and bathing going on. In the winter the cistern will last about a week to ten days. (I figure a 275 gallon tank per day on average) in the summer the usage is double or more. We run 3-4 swamp coolers and they can evaporate ~75 gallons per day each. We have a limited garden which may not make monetary sense, but you can’t put a price on the therapeutic benefit and the quality of food.

I'm no help with the heavy haulers but I've been following along with interest. We have a shallow dug well at our house and it sometimes gets too low in the summer and we have to be careful with it. My wife is a city girl that never had to worry about water growing up, so it has taken me a long time to get her to be conservative with it in the summer! The girl next door to us ran out of water twice last summer and she's angry enough about it she wants to dig a deeper well. We've had to call a water truck a couple times for a fill up, but that's somewhat extreme for us...I believe we had a running toilet last time that drained it when it was dry. We could put in a drilled well, and that would solve the supply issue, but it then creates other issues, like requiring treatment.

Jon, can you do a drilled well? Or is there simply no water to hit (or it's too deep).

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Grumpin, we need to be more careful than most with our water use, but it’s not easy. We have 5 people in our household, so there is plenty of laundry and dishes and bathing going on. In the winter the cistern will last about a week to ten days. (I figure a 275 gallon tank per day on average) in the summer the usage is double or more. We run 3-4 swamp coolers and they can evaporate ~75 gallons per day each. We have a limited garden which may not make monetary sense, but you can’t put a price on the therapeutic benefit and the quality of food.

I'm no help with the heavy haulers but I've been following along with interest. We have a shallow dug well at our house and it sometimes gets too low in the summer and we have to be careful with it. My wife is a city girl that never had to worry about water growing up, so it has taken me a long time to get her to be conservative with it in the summer! The girl next door to us ran out of water twice last summer and she's angry enough about it she wants to dig a deeper well. We've had to call a water truck a couple times for a fill up, but that's somewhat extreme for us...I believe we had a running toilet last time that drained it when it was dry. We could put in a drilled well, and that would solve the supply issue, but it then creates other issues, like requiring treatment.

Jon, can you do a drilled well? Or is there simply no water to hit (or it's too deep).

Cory, there are usually two issues with desert wells.

Little and only seasonal rainfall to replenish the aquifer, and competition for that finite resource.

Depth, which goes hand in hand with the above.

Wells will run dry.

If your well is deeper than your neighbors, you can literally undermine them, drawing the table down below their well.

I know in Palm Springs the Water Authority has wells 1,000-1,200' deep.

That's an expensive proposition and very powerful (lots of watts) pumps are needed to develop that kind of head.

If you're farming you can likely write it down (depreciate it) on your taxes, but you have to have to make that capital investment first.

ETA: Water quality is another issue.

With lots of evaporation and typically highly alkaline soils the water that does perc down may be unusable.

Too turbid or too saline for consumption.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks for the links. I have looked at the Izuzu and they would surely haul the weight, but I guess I gravitate to vehicles I know more about. The Izuzu turbo diesels are probably efficient but I have no idea how they compare. Phoenix has the Craigslist deals, but I don’t usually look there. It is 3-4 hours from me, and I’ve had more bad experiences than good ones when responding to ad’s in Phoenix.

Grumpin, we need to be more careful than most with our water use, but it’s not easy. We have 5 people in our household, so there is plenty of laundry and dishes and bathing going on. In the winter the cistern will last about a week to ten days. (I figure a 275 gallon tank per day on average) in the summer the usage is double or more. We run 3-4 swamp coolers and they can evaporate ~75 gallons per day each. We have a limited garden which may not make monetary sense, but you can’t put a price on the therapeutic benefit and the quality of food.

I did contact the seller of this F450. He wants $1,000 for the truck. It had a 7.3 IDI in it that overheated and blew a head gasket. The engine is partially dismantled. He sold the ZF5 transmission, and unfortunately the related parts went with it (the driveline brake, the hydraulics and the pedal box). He also sold the passenger door. It’s been sitting about two years. The truck is ~75 miles away, so a towing bill needs figured into the price. I have a running 6.9 and ZF sitting in this parts truck:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Not-what-I-was-looking-for-but-I-could-not-pass-this-up-td33094.html

The missing hydroboost pedal and driveline brake are a little concerning for sourcing replacements. The missing door is just obnoxious but not a deal breaker. It’s more project than I really want, but the shoe somewhat fits regarding my parts truck. One thing I could do in place of the parking brake is mount the DNE2 overdrive that I have. I would then need a yoke mounted caliper parking brake and no doubt a driveshaft modification, but that might not be a bad alternative to buying the rare F450 brake since I would get a .80 overdrive out of the deal in case I did use it on the highway for other hauling. Next week I will price the towing bill, and maybe go have a look.

Jonathan - I can make the hydroboost pedal. I have pedals laying in my way and could put a pin at the right spot on one of them.

[Rembrant]

That's an expensive proposition and very powerful (lots of watts) pumps are needed to develop that kind of head.

I'm actually in the pump business. That's what I do from Monday to Friday when I'm not searching for rusty Ford parts;). I'm working on an application now that requires two 28" vertical pumps each with 1000HP electric motors. However, I don't do municipal water projects all that often, and never residential.

I was just curious about Jonathan's water situation is all...and not his situation specifically, but more generally curious about Arizona. Around here, A residential dug well like mine is usually between 12-15 ft deep. Residential drilled wells are often 2-300 ft deep around here.

A grew up on dug wells, and being conservative with usage in the summer is just a way of life. Having to haul water to your home is completely foreign to me, so I'm following along with fascination. I'm no help with heavy haulers;).