ArdWrknTrk Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jim, if the tank were not full then I would agree, water movement would be dangerous. But when completely full the water can’t move much. I’ve hauled a half-full tank and it’s a sketchy thing, while a full one feels like nothing at all. I see plenty of these tanks, as well as 1,000 gallon horizontal and even vertical tanks going down the road on trailers. The center of gravity is lower, but the stability seems less with tandem axles than dual wheels. My route is paved except for the last 1/4 mile which is a nicely graveled section line road. No overlanding to our parcel. I’m not trying to discount the gravity of your warning... this is one reason I opened the topic for discussion. 4 tons of water is a load to be taken seriously. I am hearing that a F600 is probably the ticket, but I do wonder how much more beef the older ones have compared to the F450 Superduty CnC’s? Jonathan, What are the dimensions of the 1,000 tank you have? I'm just taking a WAG, but if 8' long seems should be at least 5' diameter. But I haven't done the math, I'm just trying to grasp the scale and CG of this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old55pete Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jonathan, What are the dimensions of the 1,000 tank you have? I'm just taking a WAG, but if 8' long seems should be at least 5' diameter. But I haven't done the math, I'm just trying to grasp the scale and CG of this thing. - deleted - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jonathan, What are the dimensions of the 1,000 tank you have? I'm just taking a WAG, but if 8' long seems should be at least 5' diameter. But I haven't done the math, I'm just trying to grasp the scale and CG of this thing. First, that’s a great picture! Second, I saw a bullnose yesterday that looks like yours. Made me smile, an old ranch truck in pretty good shape and still kicking! If you use your trailer, about 3/4 full would be gross weight. If the road isn’t bad and you’re going slow the trailer would probably take the full tank, but I would expect things to break or wear faster. And I would probably try it with the tranny in it. An F600 with a higher gross weight, but under CDL weight would be great. Might even be able to do both tanks. Might be a challenge for parts and repair, or it might work great for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 - deleted - The tires I bought for my F350 are Firestone Transforce 215/85R-16 and are LR E. Easy for me to find as the school buses here use them. They are rated for more load than my axle (7400 lbs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jonathan, What are the dimensions of the 1,000 tank you have? I'm just taking a WAG, but if 8' long seems should be at least 5' diameter. But I haven't done the math, I'm just trying to grasp the scale and CG of this thing. Jim, you have an excellent eye... the tank is 9’ long and roughly 5’ diameter. For whatever reason, the compact density of water in a tank hauls much nicer than other loads of equal weight. I am guessing it is just the distribution and center of gravity. That all changes if the tank isn’t full. As you mentioned, if that weight starts moving things get exciting... fast! Old55pete, your account of the F450 echos what others have said. The trucks are extremely capable but slow. 73mph is no doubt empty, or at least on flat ground. For my intended use that is a non issue. I am guessing it is still faster than an older F600/700. On the tires, the certification label says 235/85R16 E. That is what I currently run on my ‘81. The tire sidewall says at 80psi the load rating is 2778lbs run as duals. So times 4 would be 11,112lbs. If I had a light flatbed that would be just about the max, and I would prefer to seek out a 12 or 14 ply (rated) tire. I am aware that good rubber will not come cheap. A new set of F600 tires (if I were to go that route) might exceed the prices of the trucks I am looking at. This is part of the equation, and I suspect the F450 actually holds an advantage as far as tire price. Grumpin, a non-CDL F600/700 might indeed allow me to haul even more than 1,000 gallons. I have thought about that since I own to of the basket tanks. If I can great, if not, 1,000 at a time will be wonderful. Our below ground cistern is 2,300 gallons. I will add another large above ground tank when we get more serious about gardening (a passion my wife and I share). On the transmission, I pretty well know the T19 won’t get a 10,000 lb trailer rolling without using the transfer case low range. Our Streamline camper is 5,000 lbs and it does okay on the flat, but on any incline it really struggles (4.02 first gear x 3.00 axle gears). With the 275 gallon water tank (~2,300 lbs) it starts out with ease, but if I get too aggressive with the throttle and clutch I can smell the clutch. Pulling a 10,000 lb. trailer would be murder on the clutch if it worked at all. But I’m really thinking a heavier truck is going to be the thing to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jim, you have an excellent eye... the tank is 9’ long and roughly 5’ diameter. For whatever reason, the compact density of water in a tank hauls much nicer than other loads of equal weight. I am guessing it is just the distribution and center of gravity. That all changes if the tank isn’t full. As you mentioned, if that weight starts moving things get exciting... fast! Old55pete, your account of the F450 echos what others have said. The trucks are extremely capable but slow. 73mph is no doubt empty, or at least on flat ground. For my intended use that is a non issue. I am guessing it is still faster than an older F600/700. On the tires, the certification label says 235/85R16 E. That is what I currently run on my ‘81. The tire sidewall says at 80psi the load rating is 2778lbs run as duals. So times 4 would be 11,112lbs. If I had a light flatbed that would be just about the max, and I would prefer to seek out a 12 or 14 ply (rated) tire. I am aware that good rubber will not come cheap. A new set of F600 tires (if I were to go that route) might exceed the prices of the trucks I am looking at. This is part of the equation, and I suspect the F450 actually holds an advantage as far as tire price. Grumpin, a non-CDL F600/700 might indeed allow me to haul even more than 1,000 gallons. I have thought about that since I own to of the basket tanks. If I can great, if not, 1,000 at a time will be wonderful. Our below ground cistern is 2,300 gallons. I will add another large above ground tank when we get more serious about gardening (a passion my wife and I share). On the transmission, I pretty well know the T19 won’t get a 10,000 lb trailer rolling without using the transfer case low range. Our Streamline camper is 5,000 lbs and it does okay on the flat, but on any incline it really struggles (4.02 first gear x 3.00 axle gears). With the 275 gallon water tank (~2,300 lbs) it starts out with ease, but if I get too aggressive with the throttle and clutch I can smell the clutch. Pulling a 10,000 lb. trailer would be murder on the clutch if it worked at all. But I’m really thinking a heavier truck is going to be the thing to do... Jonathan, F-450's never came with a ratio like that. 4.30, 4.88, 5.xx. I think 4.10 was available as a highway gear. All the above are a far cry from 3.00:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jonathan, F-450's never came with a ratio like that. 4.30, 4.88, 5.xx. I think 4.10 was available as a highway gear. All the above are a far cry from 3.00:1 Jim, I was replying to Grumpin regarding my F150 gears and pulling the water tank on my trailer... not going to go over so well without a low 1st gear transmission... the usual axle ratio for the F-450’s is a 5.13 Dana 80. And even the diesel F450 got the wide ratio ZF with 5.72 first gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jim, I was replying to Grumpin regarding my F150 gears and pulling the water tank on my trailer... not going to go over so well without a low 1st gear transmission... the usual axle ratio for the F-450’s is a 5.13 Dana 80. And even the diesel F450 got the wide ratio ZF with 5.72 first gear... Yep, I knew it was 5.xx but for some reason I was thinking 5.11, and I wasn't certain. But 16" wheels work to your advantage here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jim, I was replying to Grumpin regarding my F150 gears and pulling the water tank on my trailer... not going to go over so well without a low 1st gear transmission... the usual axle ratio for the F-450’s is a 5.13 Dana 80. And even the diesel F450 got the wide ratio ZF with 5.72 first gear... Just to let you know, I'm following this but don't have a lot to contribute. However, I do think the 5.72 synchro'd 1st gear could get about anything rolling. And with a 5.13 rear you are looking at a 29.34:1 gear ratio. Compare that to your close-ratio T-18 and 3.00 gears at 12.06. In fact, that's essentially the same as your's in 4lo of 31.43 - assuming you have the NP208. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 My best friend in high school's uncle ran a commercial yard care business that also dealt in porta-johns. The truck that they used to suck those johns out was a '86 F-600 and it had a 1500 gallon tank on it which was split between waste and clean water. Never had any issues with it. The fire department had a old dodge M-57 power wagon that had a big water tanker on it without any issues either. I've seen F-450s in use for hauling liquids on the bed and loaded down for fire department use as well but no idea how much that weighs. Another option may be an old Izuzu NPR or other delivery truck. Modify the bed to haul your tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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