To Jet-Hot Or Not?

[Nothing Special]

Gary,

Ceramic coating the inside of headers provides an insulator and a reflective surface.

Silver ceramic, chrome plating or stainless exteriors provide another reflective surface.

(Yes, shiny on the outside reflects heat to the inside)

You want to keep heat in the exhaust gasses for efficiency and flow as much as keeping underhood temps down.

Check out Calico Coatings.

"Black bodies" both radiate and absorb heat better than light colored or shiny. It's obvious that snow doesn't absorb heat like blacktop does, but there's a reason almost all radiators are painted black.

The flip side of this is what Jim is saying. If black will get rid of heat better, the "less black" something can be the less heat it will get rid of.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary,

Ceramic coating the inside of headers provides an insulator and a reflective surface.

Silver ceramic, chrome plating or stainless exteriors provide another reflective surface.

(Yes, shiny on the outside reflects heat to the inside)

You want to keep heat in the exhaust gasses for efficiency and flow as much as keeping underhood temps down.

Check out Calico Coatings.

"Black bodies" both radiate and absorb heat better than light colored or shiny. It's obvious that snow doesn't absorb heat like blacktop does, but there's a reason almost all radiators are painted black.

The flip side of this is what Jim is saying. If black will get rid of heat better, the "less black" something can be the less heat it will get rid of.

There's a real reason old hot rods had all that chrome under the hood.

Emisstivity is a thing, a thing you should know about if you have a non-contact IR thermometer.

It wasn't just 'bling' like so much crap (pipe wrap:nabble_smiley_whistling:) is today.

[Gary Lewis]

There's a real reason old hot rods had all that chrome under the hood.

Emisstivity is a thing, a thing you should know about if you have a non-contact IR thermometer.

It wasn't just 'bling' like so much crap (pipe wrap:nabble_smiley_whistling:) is today.

Got a couple of notes back from Justin of R&D IDI Performance. He's the guy Jonathan suggested I contact. He uses Cerakote products and suggested I give them a try as he's had good luck with them. So I'm reading up on their stuff.

Also, Eastwood sells a paint for coating the inside of the exhaust system. I'm pretty leery of this approach, but am still exploring.

And I do understand the idea of coating both the inside and out. I've had enough physics and run enough experiments on emissivity & radiation to grasp the concept.

Bottom Line: I'm reluctant to branch off into coating with new-to-me materials for what will hopefully be a limited volume - the exhaust systems for both Big Blue and Dad's truck. So will be reading up on who does this kind of stuff, including Calico, but would prefer someone local. Suggestions welcome.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Got a couple of notes back from Justin of R&D IDI Performance. He's the guy Jonathan suggested I contact. He uses Cerakote products and suggested I give them a try as he's had good luck with them. So I'm reading up on their stuff.

Also, Eastwood sells a paint for coating the inside of the exhaust system. I'm pretty leery of this approach, but am still exploring.

And I do understand the idea of coating both the inside and out. I've had enough physics and run enough experiments on emissivity & radiation to grasp the concept.

Bottom Line: I'm reluctant to branch off into coating with new-to-me materials for what will hopefully be a limited volume - the exhaust systems for both Big Blue and Dad's truck. So will be reading up on who does this kind of stuff, including Calico, but would prefer someone local. Suggestions welcome.

You know Gary, it's not any different than dipping pottery in glaze and heating it in a kiln.

It's just that prep is paramount and the glaze is 'special'

[Gary Lewis]

You know Gary, it's not any different than dipping pottery in glaze and heating it in a kiln.It's just that prep is paramount and the glaze is 'special'

Jim - You are right, the prep is paramount and the glaze is special. In fact, that's a good lead-in to my report on what I've found.

 

I've typed and/or talked with a lot of people and have found this:

1. DIY: Justin @ R&D uses Cerakote and recommended it to me. However, he doesn't do the interior of exhaust pipes as he doesn't have a way to prep them, and prep'ing requires blasting with aluminum oxide to give a texture. So, without the inside being coated the effectiveness is limited. And the up-front cost starts to mount up as you need a fairly nice detail gun to apply the material. And the material itself is $110/quart. And then there's the curing, which has to be done at a minimum of 500 degrees and closer to 700 for an hour.

 

Calico Coatings: I got a quote from them for $280, not including shipping. But, they don't do the interior either, saying "It is only coated on the outside because we cannot get the inside prepped well enough for the coating to properly adhere."

 

CCPCoatings: I got a quote for $295-325 plus shipping. And I don't think that includes the inside.

 

OKC: I talked to two other companies in OKC that used to do ceramic coating, but don't any longer. And both recommended HPC.

 

HPC (Jet-Hot): So I called HPC and Roger answered "HPC Jet-Hot." Turns out they merged a few years ago. As previously reported I talked with Debi at their CA facility and got quotes from her. But today Roger, the plant manager, talked with me for 30 minutes. I explained my application and he told me about their products: 1300; 2000; & 2500, with those being the names as well as the temps they can withstand. Roger agreed with Debi that in my application the 1300 might melt. And while the 2500 has the best of the properties it is also essentially porcelain and can chip. So Roger said he thinks the 2000 is the one for me. And, if I come down to pick them up the price for coating them both inside and out is $450. Plus, he'll give me a tour.

 

Having said all that, I'm leaning strongly to HPC/Jet-Hot. I don't want to take the time nor spend the money to get into doing the coating myself, especially since I only have two sets of headers that I might want to do. And the other outfits don't do the inside, so they don't compare with HPC/Jet-Hot and yet their prices of ~$350 - 375 inc shipping are about 80% of HPC's.

 

But, you might say "Wait! You have to go after them." However, Roger said they are less than a mile from the outlet mall in OKC - and Janey loves to go there. Plus, they aren't far from a place that is famous for chicken-fried steaks, and we've been wanting to check them out for some time. So, we have a cunning plan.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim - You are right, the prep is paramount and the glaze is special. In fact, that's a good lead-in to my report on what I've found.

 

I've typed and/or talked with a lot of people and have found this:

1. DIY: Justin @ R&D uses Cerakote and recommended it to me. However, he doesn't do the interior of exhaust pipes as he doesn't have a way to prep them, and prep'ing requires blasting with aluminum oxide to give a texture. So, without the inside being coated the effectiveness is limited. And the up-front cost starts to mount up as you need a fairly nice detail gun to apply the material. And the material itself is $110/quart. And then there's the curing, which has to be done at a minimum of 500 degrees and closer to 700 for an hour.

 

Calico Coatings: I got a quote from them for $280, not including shipping. But, they don't do the interior either, saying "It is only coated on the outside because we cannot get the inside prepped well enough for the coating to properly adhere."

 

CCPCoatings: I got a quote for $295-325 plus shipping. And I don't think that includes the inside.

 

OKC: I talked to two other companies in OKC that used to do ceramic coating, but don't any longer. And both recommended HPC.

 

HPC (Jet-Hot): So I called HPC and Roger answered "HPC Jet-Hot." Turns out they merged a few years ago. As previously reported I talked with Debi at their CA facility and got quotes from her. But today Roger, the plant manager, talked with me for 30 minutes. I explained my application and he told me about their products: 1300; 2000; & 2500, with those being the names as well as the temps they can withstand. Roger agreed with Debi that in my application the 1300 might melt. And while the 2500 has the best of the properties it is also essentially porcelain and can chip. So Roger said he thinks the 2000 is the one for me. And, if I come down to pick them up the price for coating them both inside and out is $450. Plus, he'll give me a tour.

 

Having said all that, I'm leaning strongly to HPC/Jet-Hot. I don't want to take the time nor spend the money to get into doing the coating myself, especially since I only have two sets of headers that I might want to do. And the other outfits don't do the inside, so they don't compare with HPC/Jet-Hot and yet their prices of ~$350 - 375 inc shipping are about 80% of HPC's.

 

But, you might say "Wait! You have to go after them." However, Roger said they are less than a mile from the outlet mall in OKC - and Janey loves to go there. Plus, they aren't far from a place that is famous for chicken-fried steaks, and we've been wanting to check them out for some time. So, we have a cunning plan.

I like "WE"!And I LOVE the fact that Janey not only tolerates your madness, she seems to actually encourage it!!! 😈😖 #+$@¢*© autocorrect!!!!

[Gary Lewis]

I like "WE"!

And I LOVE the fact that Janey not only tolerates your madness, she seems to actually encourage it!!! 😈

😖 #+$@¢*© autocorrect!!!!

I told Janey a few days ago that I was exploring the DIY option on coating the headers, and what the cost of the Jet-Hot approach was.

Today I explained what I'd learned about how the DIY approach seemed to be inferior to the Jet-Hot, and told her that I was considering going with the latter because it seemed better and would save me a lot of time, but that the place is less than a mile from the outlet mall in OKC. At that point she was bought in, but when I mentioned the chicken-fried steak place it was "do it!".

Yes, she not only tolerates it, she does encourage it. And remember, she is the one that suggested we take Big Blue to Colorado next year and drive the trails around Ouray.

[grumpin]

I told Janey a few days ago that I was exploring the DIY option on coating the headers, and what the cost of the Jet-Hot approach was.

Today I explained what I'd learned about how the DIY approach seemed to be inferior to the Jet-Hot, and told her that I was considering going with the latter because it seemed better and would save me a lot of time, but that the place is less than a mile from the outlet mall in OKC. At that point she was bought in, but when I mentioned the chicken-fried steak place it was "do it!".

Yes, she not only tolerates it, she does encourage it. And remember, she is the one that suggested we take Big Blue to Colorado next year and drive the trails around Ouray.

Keeper! But, you already knew that! Good on you two. Enjoy the blessings!

[Gary Lewis]

Keeper! But, you already knew that! Good on you two. Enjoy the blessings!

Yes, Dane, I did already know that. I am truly blessed, and I thank God for her daily.

[Gary Lewis]

Keeper! But, you already knew that! Good on you two. Enjoy the blessings!

Yes, Dane, I did already know that. I am truly blessed, and I thank God for her daily.

Today's update: The headers are on order and HPC Jet-Hot is expecting them. Now for the details.

I spoke with Roger again at HPC Jet-Hot and found that the lead time is running 3 weeks right now. UGH! The issue is that racing season is on us and everyone needs their headers done. But he thinks they'll get it down to 2 weeks soon.

Then I spoke to Alan (x303) at L&L and ordered the headers. These are the same headers as I had, but just have a different flange. So they'll bolt to the exhausts I have for start-up and break-in of the cam.

However, they build the headers to suit, and I don't want EGR so they'll leave that fitting off. And they don't put O2 sensor bungs in the headers. Instead they put them in the reducer flange, and are going to put bungs in both for me since EEC-V uses one on each side. (It'll also use a third one behind the cat, but since I don't have a cat I have that one turned off in the ECU.)

Having said that, Alan wasn't aware that the '96 & '97 CA 460's got EEC-V. He was in CA in '94 to get CA certification on their headers and he well remembers only one O2 sensor so was surprised when I asked for two.

Also, he explained why I didn't have leaks with the gaskets nor loosened bolts - the 1/2" thick flanges. Anything less and the tubes heat the flange up too much and warp it. That causes the bolts to back out and it causes leaks.

Anyway, their lead time is running about a week, so I'm looking at about a month before getting the headers. Guess I'd better work on other things on Big Blue, and there are plenty of them to do.

Oh, and now for a bit of farcical thinking. I found a statement that says the coating increases HP by 3%. If you assume that it also increases efficiency by the same amount and assume that the non-coated MPG will be 13, then the coated will be 13.4 MPG. And, with $3/gallon gasoline the coating will pay for itself in 66,666 miles.