ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Update Just wanted to post some progress I've made in the last couple weeks since my initial post. After exploring all sorts of options, I did pull the trigger on a 302 out of a 76 bronco with an 87 block. I was looking for a 351 but this already was setup for a carb and had a carb and 2 distributors included with the purchase so it was easier on the budget. Engine Previous owner did tell me there was low compression in cylinder 1 and 2 so he suspected a head gasket but oil pressure and other cylinders tested out good. He, like myself, is a first time project owner and opted to go with a crate engine rather than mess with the engine. Enjoyed getting to meet someone else in the beginner boat and it was nice to share what we have learned so far. Shot of carb and distributor First Look Inside I am using my Haynes and Rebuilding Small Block Ford books to walk through the teardown so far and from what I understand the picture shows we have a roller cam. This would make sense since the PO also told me when he had the distributor changed out they found it was on a 351 firing order. Got the heads off and found the leak between cylinders 1 and 2. I believe cylinder 5 also had a bad head gasket because I could make out some coolant in the cylinder. Next Steps The rebuilding small block ford book, recommended just removing and installing cylinder heads as a best practice so I wanted to check with other people's experience. The valve compression tools online don't look too expensive so I am willing to try it but thought I should hear if it's worth it. I also got a transmission, NP435, which was not one I was looking to get but it was really cheap and I really want to get on the road for as little as possible and chart the rest of the project from there. Thanks for all the help so far. Alex, glad to see youre digging in! I always love to see someone learning about engines. My suggestion, from what I see, is scrape the decks and heads, check for grooves and warp. Rotate the crank while looking in each bore as it reaches BDC with a strong flashlight. Look for scoring, or a spot with any substantial pitting where water sat atop the rings. Look at what you can see of the compression ring to make sure none are broken (but this would likely score the bore) Check the top of each cylinder for a ridge where the rings reach TDC. Can you catch your fingernail on it? Without some expensive bore gauges and the experience to use them you're not going to check for oval or taper. Put some new gaskets on and run it. If it seems to have a bunch of blow by and the bores checked good, run it hard and use some MMO, ATF or Rislone to put pressure on the rings and free them in their grooves. You can always get a bit of coolant in a cylinder from pulling the intake if #5 valve was open. There are coolant crossovers front and back of the intake manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Guenther Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 I like your plan. And if you've already found head gasket leaks, you are on the right path. Speaking of path, I hope to scan the factory shop manual's section on the 302 tomorrow and get it up on the website. I'd trust that more than the other books for things like torque specs. But the other books assume you know less than the FSM does, so that's good. As for the heads, it is a crap shoot regarding whether to have them gone through or just install them. I've always gone the safe route, meaning had them gone through. But that is expensive and you don't know that there are problems with the heads. I don't really know what to tell you. If you put them on you may then discover a valve is burned. But maybe not. However, it is lots easier to have the work done now than after you've installed the engine. Thanks for the sage advice Gary. I watched a few videos on using gas or distilled water to check the valves so I plan on doing that. If the valves are leaky or weeping I am going to go ahead and take them in to the machine shop and get them worked on. I will weigh the cost of the machine shop vs buying aftermarket heads at that point but will cross that bridge when we get there. Unless I find something wrong I am going avoid going further into the engine and depending on the state of the water pump and timing chain, replace those as a 'while its out' kind of thing. I am really looking forward to cleaning everything up posting progress along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Thanks for the sage advice Gary. I watched a few videos on using gas or distilled water to check the valves so I plan on doing that. If the valves are leaky or weeping I am going to go ahead and take them in to the machine shop and get them worked on. I will weigh the cost of the machine shop vs buying aftermarket heads at that point but will cross that bridge when we get there. Unless I find something wrong I am going avoid going further into the engine and depending on the state of the water pump and timing chain, replace those as a 'while its out' kind of thing. I am really looking forward to cleaning everything up posting progress along the way. If the valves aren't sunk or wobbly in their guides a simple lapping will make them liquid tight. This is a used engine. It may not be perfect, but it should be quite serviceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Guenther Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 Alex, glad to see youre digging in! I always love to see someone learning about engines. My suggestion, from what I see, is scrape the decks and heads, check for grooves and warp. Rotate the crank while looking in each bore as it reaches BDC with a strong flashlight. Look for scoring, or a spot with any substantial pitting where water sat atop the rings. Look at what you can see of the compression ring to make sure none are broken (but this would likely score the bore) Check the top of each cylinder for a ridge where the rings reach TDC. Can you catch your fingernail on it? Without some expensive bore gauges and the experience to use them you're not going to check for oval or taper. Put some new gaskets on and run it. If it seems to have a bunch of blow by and the bores checked good, run it hard and use some MMO, ATF or Rislone to put pressure on the rings and free them in their grooves. You can always get a bit of coolant in a cylinder from pulling the intake if #5 valve was open. There are coolant crossovers front and back of the intake manifold. Thanks Jim! I did an cursory glance at the cylinder walls and nothing stood out as egregious but I will give it closer look this week. I did run my finder at the top of the cylinder across the ridge but it felt pretty flush with the rest of the cylinder. I could tell it was much rougher but did not feel a difference in diameter. I am probably not explaining that well and will add some pictures to add some color. I am hoping to do exactly what you mentioned, once the cylinder heads are worked out I am going to put new gaskets and run it. I want to avoid going deeper into the engine and see what I have. Thanks -Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 If the valves aren't sunk or wobbly in their guides a simple lapping will make them liquid tight. This is a used engine. It may not be perfect, but it should be quite serviceable. Jim has a really good point. You'll need a spring compressor to remove the springs and check the fit of the valves. But a spring compressor isn't very expensive. So pull a valve at a time and check for wobble. If fairly tight look at the sealing surface of the valve and the head if there are marks consider lapping them. Your books probably have instructions on how to do that because they are intended for hobbyists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Jim has a really good point. You'll need a spring compressor to remove the springs and check the fit of the valves. But a spring compressor isn't very expensive. So pull a valve at a time and check for wobble. If fairly tight look at the sealing surface of the valve and the head if there are marks consider lapping them. Your books probably have instructions on how to do that because they are intended for hobbyists. Ok, the Windsor section from the 1985 factory service manual is now on the website. See the Windsor Instructions tab here: Documentation/Engines/Windsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Guenther Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 Ok, the Windsor section from the 1985 factory service manual is now on the website. See the Windsor Instructions tab here: Documentation/Engines/Windsor. Thanks Gary! Can't wait to use this info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Thanks Gary! Can't wait to use this info. Actually, I take that back. That's from the 1981 FSM. That's 'cause the '81 has all three Windsor engines and the '85 doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Actually, I take that back. That's from the 1981 FSM. That's 'cause the '81 has all three Windsor engines and the '85 doesn't. I'd never thought about it, or realized the V-6 was 3/4 of a 302. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 I'd never thought about it, or realized the V-6 was 3/4 of a 302. I'm missing something. The bore and stroke of the V6 is 3.81 x 3.39, and the 302 is 4.00 x 3.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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