Lighting Upgrades

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, unless the wiring on Big Blue has been intercoursed like the rest of the truck, the side markers in front, with the lights off, should blink with the turn signals, with the lights on, they blink in opposition, ie, when the signal blinks, the marker goes out. They are wired across from the park light circuit to the turn signal so ground through the turn signal filament so when the lights are on, they lose their ground.

In looking at the EVTM that some nice guy supplied I haven't gotten my head around that. I fully understand what you are saying, but since I have to look at more than one page to put it all together it hasn't clicked. But, I'll draw it out and that should do it.

And, I think the wiring is original on that part of the truck, so it should be working.

[Dyn Blin]

That is some great info in one place Gary, thank you.

I've personally gone down the HID route on other vehicles, and found that even with the best components and carefully considered installations, HID adds an extra layer of complexity and potential for failure in the use of relays and ignitors and dedicated grounds. The components are also easily affected by heat, something always seemingly in surplus in Bullnose engine bays. Additionally, similar to LED replacement headlight bulbs, the OEM reflector was not designed for the way light is disbursed from the HID bulb. I've also seen heat from an HID bulb melt housings on friends' bikes. (This can happen with using higher wattage halogen bulbs too.)

LED bulbs are getting very good, but I have yet to find one that has both a decent cutoff and good projection. There are so many coming out now, however, I would guess if not yet, soon they will work as well or better in OEM housings.

On my Volvos, I found the Cibie housings are excellent. I'll eventually go this route with my truck. I like the idea of an H4 "conversion" over a sealed bulb to be able to swap burn outs easily. No matter what though, dust always seems to find its way to the reflectors, so cleaning them every few years is a trade-off.

 

[Gary Lewis]

That is some great info in one place Gary, thank you.

I've personally gone down the HID route on other vehicles, and found that even with the best components and carefully considered installations, HID adds an extra layer of complexity and potential for failure in the use of relays and ignitors and dedicated grounds. The components are also easily affected by heat, something always seemingly in surplus in Bullnose engine bays. Additionally, similar to LED replacement headlight bulbs, the OEM reflector was not designed for the way light is disbursed from the HID bulb. I've also seen heat from an HID bulb melt housings on friends' bikes. (This can happen with using higher wattage halogen bulbs too.)

LED bulbs are getting very good, but I have yet to find one that has both a decent cutoff and good projection. There are so many coming out now, however, I would guess if not yet, soon they will work as well or better in OEM housings.

On my Volvos, I found the Cibie housings are excellent. I'll eventually go this route with my truck. I like the idea of an H4 "conversion" over a sealed bulb to be able to swap burn outs easily. No matter what though, dust always seems to find its way to the reflectors, so cleaning them every few years is a trade-off.

Dyn - I'm glad to see that the Cibies work as well as others have said. I can't wait to put them in, although I'm not going to do that until I pull the engine out and re-wire as I don't want to run the heavier bulbs on the stock wiring.

But, I believe the only way an LED H4 replacement bulb can give the right cutoff and light distribution in a reflector housing is for someone to make an LED that is shaped exactly like a filament on a halogen bulb. That's because the reflector housing has been engineered for the light source to be in exactly that position and have exactly that long, skinny shape. And since I don't think it is physically possible to create an LED that has the same shape and light emission as a halogen filament I do not believe it is possible to have a replacement H4 LED do what it is supposed to do.

If you think about it, the shape of the filament is a point-source when viewed from the side and a wide source when viewed from the top. And it throws as much light up, back, and down as it does forward. So the reflector has been engineered to focus that light into the right beam.

But the current replacement LEDs emit light in very different directions than the halogens. Looking at the from the side, they emit light ahead of and behind the filament, which is the focal point of the reflector. So the vast majority of the light they emit cannot go where it is supposed to go because it hits the reflector at the wrong angle.

Which is why the big boys, like JW Speaker and Truck-Lite, have gone to complete units for the LEDs. They get to design a whole new reflector to accommodate the light output pattern of the LED, and add a lens that shapes the beam. That approach does work since everything is engineered for the LED - just like the reflector housings we currently have were engineered for the shape and light output parameters of a tungsten bulb.

[85lebaront2]

In looking at the EVTM that some nice guy supplied I haven't gotten my head around that. I fully understand what you are saying, but since I have to look at more than one page to put it all together it hasn't clicked. But, I'll draw it out and that should do it.

And, I think the wiring is original on that part of the truck, so it should be working.

Gary, I was wrong, I thought the later trucks were still like the 77 I had. On that one the markers blinked in opposition with the lights on. I suspect you could probably effect that by moving the ground from the black wire to the turn signal feed on the side you are working on.

The convertible has them that way so they blink either with or in opposition to the signals.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I was wrong, I thought the later trucks were still like the 77 I had. On that one the markers blinked in opposition with the lights on. I suspect you could probably effect that by moving the ground from the black wire to the turn signal feed on the side you are working on.

The convertible has them that way so they blink either with or in opposition to the signals.

Thanks, Bill. That would explain why I couldn't figure out how it worked. So now I don't need to draw it out on one page instead of trying to wrap my head around three pages in the EVTM.

But, while I could change the wiring to get them to blink out of phase, as explained by Daniel here, I think I'd rather use Daniel's DRL-1 module and make them flash in phase. And, as a bonus, I'd have daytime running lights, as shown here.

[Dyn Blin]

Dyn - I'm glad to see that the Cibies work as well as others have said. I can't wait to put them in, although I'm not going to do that until I pull the engine out and re-wire as I don't want to run the heavier bulbs on the stock wiring.

But, I believe the only way an LED H4 replacement bulb can give the right cutoff and light distribution in a reflector housing is for someone to make an LED that is shaped exactly like a filament on a halogen bulb. That's because the reflector housing has been engineered for the light source to be in exactly that position and have exactly that long, skinny shape. And since I don't think it is physically possible to create an LED that has the same shape and light emission as a halogen filament I do not believe it is possible to have a replacement H4 LED do what it is supposed to do.

If you think about it, the shape of the filament is a point-source when viewed from the side and a wide source when viewed from the top. And it throws as much light up, back, and down as it does forward. So the reflector has been engineered to focus that light into the right beam.

But the current replacement LEDs emit light in very different directions than the halogens. Looking at the from the side, they emit light ahead of and behind the filament, which is the focal point of the reflector. So the vast majority of the light they emit cannot go where it is supposed to go because it hits the reflector at the wrong angle.

Which is why the big boys, like JW Speaker and Truck-Lite, have gone to complete units for the LEDs. They get to design a whole new reflector to accommodate the light output pattern of the LED, and add a lens that shapes the beam. That approach does work since everything is engineered for the LED - just like the reflector housings we currently have were engineered for the shape and light output parameters of a tungsten bulb.

Gary, did you recently source the Cibies from Daniel?

I can't find a US source that has both high and "low" (aka "dip"/"city") beams, only the off-road high-beam only.

When you have a moment, would you post a pic of the box and/or model #?

No hurry, I won't be ready to buy for a while.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, did you recently source the Cibies from Daniel?

I can't find a US source that has both high and "low" (aka "dip"/"city") beams, only the off-road high-beam only.

When you have a moment, would you post a pic of the box and/or model #?

No hurry, I won't be ready to buy for a while.

Actually, I've not yet bought them - but I will and I will buy from Daniel. In an email to me on Dec 27th he said:

Put in a set of Cibie replaceable-bulb headlamp units, $158/pair. All of the reputable-brand 200mm x 142mm headlamps presently available (Cibie, Bosch, Hella) are well made of good quality materials, but the Cibies are the most efficient, best focused, highest performing units of their type -- more detail on request. There's a great deal of junk on the market, too. Delta, Roundeyes, Adjure, Eagle Eye, Eaglite, Maxtel, Eurolite, Neolite, Autopal, Rampage, and dozens of other off-brand units mostly from China or India. Avoid all of it.

The Cibie headlamps are available either with or without a built-in parking lamp. This is a small 5w bulb ($4.59/ea) that sticks through the lamp's reflector into the lamp itself, a short distance away from the main headlight bulb, via a socket and grommet. "City light" is a common casual term for this........

So, I'm confident that he has them. In fact, he shows them on this page. But, if you click on Buy Them Now you'll get something that starts with:

How do I buy?

Where's the shopping cart...?

There isn't one. Send me an email and I'll be happy to get your needs handled. Ordering isn't hard; I accept credit cards and various other forms of money, and we'll discuss it once we've worked out your order.

So, send him an email at consult@danielsternlighting.com. He is very easy to communicate with, and he knows his stuff.

[1986F150Six]

Actually, I've not yet bought them - but I will and I will buy from Daniel. In an email to me on Dec 27th he said:

Put in a set of Cibie replaceable-bulb headlamp units, $158/pair. All of the reputable-brand 200mm x 142mm headlamps presently available (Cibie, Bosch, Hella) are well made of good quality materials, but the Cibies are the most efficient, best focused, highest performing units of their type -- more detail on request. There's a great deal of junk on the market, too. Delta, Roundeyes, Adjure, Eagle Eye, Eaglite, Maxtel, Eurolite, Neolite, Autopal, Rampage, and dozens of other off-brand units mostly from China or India. Avoid all of it.

The Cibie headlamps are available either with or without a built-in parking lamp. This is a small 5w bulb ($4.59/ea) that sticks through the lamp's reflector into the lamp itself, a short distance away from the main headlight bulb, via a socket and grommet. "City light" is a common casual term for this........

So, I'm confident that he has them. In fact, he shows them on this page. But, if you click on Buy Them Now you'll get something that starts with:

How do I buy?

Where's the shopping cart...?

There isn't one. Send me an email and I'll be happy to get your needs handled. Ordering isn't hard; I accept credit cards and various other forms of money, and we'll discuss it once we've worked out your order.

So, send him an email at consult@danielsternlighting.com. He is very easy to communicate with, and he knows his stuff.

Hmmm? I feel compelled to share what I have found to be an improvement. While making upgrades to mine or my son's trucks, I attempt to get what I can for a moderate investment.

A few years ago, I purchased Hella Vision Plus [190 X 132mm] from Amazon. They were ~$45 each, then, but now are ~$110/pair. These are DOT approved. https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-003427291-190x132mm-Conversion-Headlamp/dp/B0002M9QRE

I used the LMC headlight relay @ ~$30.

The performance is much better than original and I have no complaints with the pattern [low or high beam].

 

[Dyn Blin]

Hmmm? I feel compelled to share what I have found to be an improvement. While making upgrades to mine or my son's trucks, I attempt to get what I can for a moderate investment.

A few years ago, I purchased Hella Vision Plus [190 X 132mm] from Amazon. They were ~$45 each, then, but now are ~$110/pair. These are DOT approved. https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-003427291-190x132mm-Conversion-Headlamp/dp/B0002M9QRE

I used the LMC headlight relay @ ~$30.

The performance is much better than original and I have no complaints with the pattern [low or high beam].

Thanks for that link, it's a good price point too, especially with consideration of "Prime" shipping. I've been considering Hella, too, but had read feedback the high and low beams were difficult to "synchronize". Your personal experience is appreciated.

What bulb do you use?

[Rembrant]

Day-Time Running Lights: According to Daniel "Daytime running lights significantly reduce your risk of being in a crash during the daytime, and are required equipment in Canada, throughout Europe, and in a large and growing number of other countries throughout the world because they are a very cost-effective safety device (i.e., they work). You can easily enable this functionality in your vehicle using a DRL-1 module ($59); see http://dastern.torque.net/Mods/DRL/DRL1.html for instructions and demonstration videos. This is the best way to put a daytime running light function on a vehicle not originally equipped (or which has had its headlamp-based DRLs disabled for installation of headlight relays). The module enables the steady-burning operation of both front directional signals as daytime running lights (except, of course, when you're signalling for a turn). They produce a light distribution with a wide view angle, are generally well located for DRL service at the outboard edges of the front of the vehicle, consume considerably less power than any headlamp-based DRL implementation, use light sources of generally much longer life than a headlight bulb, do not encourage improper nighttime use of lights, and do not require additional lighting devices to be added.

Interesting read on the DRL's. As a Canadian, I'm quite used to them...but from what I've read on forums over the years, I thought they were generally disliked (and even detested) in America....kinda like the Metric system...lol. Just kiddin' guys.

The little DRL conversion modules are common...I've installed a few of them over the years. I've imported several vehicles from the US into Canada, and one of the requirements to pass the RIV inspection is to have daytime running lights (within 45 days of import), among other things.

This is an anecdotal story I know, but a couple years ago, I installed a set of Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited bulbs in my car, and decided to disable the DRL's to improve the bulb lifespan. Well, I noticed that cars seemed to be pulling out in front of me more often. It was noticeable. Anyway, I sold that car and I'm back to my DRL's now, and I'm just going to leave them intact.

Oddly though, my old '84 Bullnose has daytime running lights, and I was planning on disabling them...I've just been too lazy to look in the wiring diagram to see where I had to do it.