Lighting Upgrades

[Gsmblue]

Well, I realized recently that it has been almost a year since I asked Daniel Stern, of Daniel Stern Lighting, to tell me about the latest in retrofit automotive lighting. His response is below, and is both very informative as well as lengthy. And much of it is the same or similar to previous responses, but there is enough new info to make it a good read.

And I can see that I'm going to be spending $179 + 43.18 = $222.18 or more with Daniel in the near future.

Hiya, Gary. Good to see from you. Some of this info you already know,

but I'm sending it all in one go so you have it all in one place:

The very best replaceable-bulb (H4) headlamps in the 200mm × 142mm

(large rectangular) size you need are made in Japan by Koito, one of the

top three makers of lighting equipment for the world's automakers. These

are the most efficient (greatest amount of light on the road), best

focused (most useful distribution of light), best-built (sturdiest glass

and metal materials, most careful build quality) lamps of their type in

this size. They are in stock, and cost $179/pair; pic is attached.

There's a great deal of junk on the market, too. Delta, Roundeyes,

Adjure, Eagle Eye, Rampage, Eaglite, Maxtel, Eurolite, Pilot, Neolite,

Autopal, and dozens of other off-brand, poorly-made headlite-shaped

trinkets. You're wise to steer clear of it all.

The Hella lamp in this size is quite inefficient on low beam, which

means inadequate, short seeing distance, and it has an obnoxious focus

issue of excessive vertical distance between the low and high beam: if

the lows are aimed where they should be, the highs are up in the trees,

but if you put the highs dead-ahead as they ought to be, the lows are

shortly in front of your front bumper. The Koito lamps do not have this

irritating issue.

*Wiring*

You will definitely want to put in headlamp relays to take the workload

off the switches and bring full power to the lamps. The concept is

explained at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

; in a nutshell it's because the car's existing wiring was designed to

be adequate for the original low-power lamps when everything was new,

and it doesn't improve with age. This can be achieved in a couple of

different ways of varying cost and difficulty. One way is with a relay

install kit RIK-2, $69.

The RIK includes all the needed relays, brackets, terminal blocks,

terminals, plugs, sockets, fuses and fuseholders, all in very fine

quality (not the "consumer grade" junk you can find at the parts store).

You supply your own wire (or your mechanic does) and use the parts from

the kit to build up your own wiring harness.

Or, I can have my harness builder custom build you a ready-to-install

harness assembly using the same high-grade components that go in my

build-it-yourself parts kits. Cost for this option is $199 (including

parts and build). It costs more than the cheap, failure-prone prefab

harnesses because it is not a cheap, failure-prone prefab harness.

Or, the sweet spot: I've got built-up, install-ready harnesses for

2-lamp vehicles like yours for just $99 (that's $100 less than

custom-built). These are quite nice (they easily pass the "would I use

it on my own car at night in the mountains" test), and they're a whole

lot better and more dependable than the poor-quality junk that's all

over the internet for about the same price. These are very nicely made

with name-brand high-current relays, splashproof fuseholders, quality

terminals and sockets and plugs, 14-gauge wire, etc. The only thing you

don't get is custom-tailored wire lengths. You won't have a "tuff luck,

won't reach" situation, but you might wind up tucking some extra cable

length neatly out of the way, or routing the cable under rather than

over the radiator (for example) to take up some extra length.

With either of the harnesses, installation is simple: you run the marked

wires to battery positive and to battery negative, snap the harness plug

onto one of the vehicle's original headlamp sockets, snap the harness

sockets onto the headlamps, mount the relays (they have an easy mounting

tab for a bolt or screw) and secure the cable runs and relays neatly out

of harm's way.

Either way, parts kit or built-up harness, the in-car switches continue

working normally, and you will not need to cut or otherwise disturb any

of the vehicle's original wires.

*Bulbs*

Bulb selection matters a _lot_ to how well you can (or can't) see at

night. Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results

. Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the

standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-efficacy bulb (bulb "C"). The

current best pick in 60/55w bulbs is made by Tungsram (GE of Europe);

it is a +120 item that is a few developmental iterations improved over

the +80/+90 bulb "C" in the linked comparison. I keep them in stock for

$43.18/pair. With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big

wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy

reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request.

Important note: any of the bulbs claiming to produce "extra white" light

(or super white, hyper white, platinum white, metal white, xenon white,

etc) as its main promotional "benefit" is best avoided. It doesn't

matter whose name is on the bulb -- Sylvania SilverStar/Ultra or ZxE,

Philips BlueVision or CrystalVision, Wagner TruView, anything from PIAA

or Hoen,, Nokya, Polarg, etc. -- all the same scam. They have a

blue-tinted glass, which changes the light color a little, but blocks

light that would reach the road if the glass weren't tinted, so they

give you _less_ light than ordinary bulbs (not more). To get

legal-minimum levels of light through the blue glass, the filament has

to be driven very hard so these bulbs have a very short lifespan, and

there's nothing about the tinted light that improves your ability to see

-- the opposite is true (less light = less seeing, no matter about the

tint). Sylvania got spanked (see

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?388252-Sylvania-taken-to-task-for-their-false-claims-of-headlamp-superiority

) to the tune of thirty million dollars(!) for false "upgrade" claims

on their Silver Star bulbs -- and theirs are among the least-bad of an

overall bad product category, so the math kind of does itself.

*LED headlamps:*

The "LED bulbs" now flooding the market, claiming to convert halogen

headlamps to LED, are not a legitimate, safe, effective, or legal

product. No matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims,

these are a fraudulent scam. They are not capable of producing the right

amounts of light, nor producing it in the right pattern for the lamp's

optics to work. Same goes for "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or

fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether

it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.). They do not work safely or

effectively, which is why they are illegal. Legitimate LED headlamps do

not use a replaceable light source ("LED bulb").

If you wish more detailed info on these so-called "conversions", please

see

https://jalopnik.com/why-most-led-headlight-upgrades-dont-really-work-an-ex-1843070472

and

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

. Nutshell version: this is not like trying out different bulbs in the

kitchen or living room or garage, where all it has to do is light up in

a way you find adequate and pleasing. Headlamps aren't just flood or

spot lights; they are precision optical instruments (yes, even a cheap

and minimal headlamp counts as a precision optical instrument) that have

a complex, difficult job to do in terms of simultaneously putting light

where it's needed, keeping it away from where it's harmful, and

controlling the amounts of light at numerous locations within the beam

to appropriate levels (too much light in certain areas is just as

dangerous as not enough). Headlamps cannot just spray out a random blob

of light, and that's what they do with anything other than the intended

correct kind of light source.

And there's also a mountain of unsafe junk in the form of trinkets

claiming to be complete "LED headlamps", as well. But there's a number

of engineered LED headlamps on the market -- they range in quality and

performance from pathetic to excellent. The best of them all is the JW

Speaker item in chrome

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S6TZSG/?tag=2402507-20 or in black

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0784NV3FK/?tag=2402507-20 . These are *not*

advisable if you do a lot of wintertime driving with heavy snow and

slush; the LED headlamp lenses run cold so snow and ice build up on them

instead of melting off like they do from a warm halogen lamp lens. There

is now a heated-lens version of the JW Speaker lamp to address this

issue; they, too, come in chrome:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0784PRXJM/?tag=2402507-20

or in black:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078C4WXTV/?tag=2402507-20

About the only other LED headlamps I'd point you at would be these

(specific) Truck-Lites:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081S922ZC/?tag=2402507-20 (heated lens).

You'll be shown a whackload of "Products like this" or "I bought these

for way cheaper"—all complete junk, do not buy.

Assuming your truck's wiring is in good shape, a relay harness isn't

needed or beneficial with LED headlamps.

*Lamp aim:*

Lamp aim is by far the main thing that determines how well you can (or

can't) see at night with any given set of lamps, so this is crucial: you

will need to see to it that the lamps are aimed carefully and correctly;

Koito halogen lamps per the "VOL" instructions; or JW Speaker LED lamps

per "VOR", or heated Truck-Lite LEDs per "older US lamps" as described

at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html .

Whichever headlamp option you choose, result of this upgrade will be

modern-car levels of headlamp performance: broad, even, bright white—not

brownish or bluish—well-focused low and high beams instead of the dim,

narrow tunnel of brownish light from the original sealed beams. Also

total elimination of backscatter in rain/fog/snow. Modern cars have a

range of headlamp performance; your headlamp selection determines how

high in that range your upgrade will get you.

*Fog lamps:*

Even very good fog lamps (which do exist, but aren't very common) are of

almost no use to most drivers in most conditions, but "most" doesn't

mean "all"; there are certainly plenty of places where _legitimate_ fog

lamps, installed and used thoughtfully, can be a big help. Please see

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

for thorough information about what fog lamps will/won't and can/can't do.

_Daytime running lights:_

Daytime running lights—legitimate ones, configured appropriately for

automatic operation—are good to have. They significantly reduce your

risk of being in a crash during the daytime, and are required equipment

in Canada, throughout Europe, and in a large and growing number of other

countries throughout the world because they are a very cost-effective

safety device (i.e., they work). You can easily enable them in your

vehicle using a DRL-1 module ($59); see

http://dastern.torque.net/Mods/DRL/DRL1.html for instructions and

demonstration videos. This is the best way to put a daytime running

light function on a vehicle not originally equipped (or which has had

its headlamp-based DRLs disabled for installation of headlight relays).

The module enables the steady-burning operation of both front

directional signals as daytime running lights (except, of course, when

you're signalling for a turn). They produce a light distribution with a

wide view angle, are generally well located for DRL service at the

outboard edges of the front of the vehicle, consume considerably less

power than any headlamp-based DRL implementation, use light sources of

generally much longer life than a headlight bulb, do not encourage

improper nighttime use of lights, and do not require additional lighting

devices to be added. A large variety of vehicles from a wide array of

makers use this kind of DRL as original equipment. It is steady-lit

operation of the bright amber turn signals (except when they are

flashing to signal a turn) -- it is not steady operation of the dim

parking lamps; parking lights are not bright enough and don't have the

right view angles to serve the daytime running light function. Turn

signal DRLs comply with US and Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards

#108 and are approved in all states, provinces, and territories.

_Other upgrades:_

Can safely make your front sidemarker lights 3× brighter for safer

all-around visibility of the vehicle with direct-swap bulbs, $9.18/pair.

Your turn signals are presently invisible from the side, but there is an

easy modification you can make to the front side marker lights' hookup

so that they do double-duty as side markers _and_ side turn signal

flashers, see

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/markerflash/markerflash.html .

This is a very good safety improvement, as your turn signals become

visible to the side (cars in the next lane, bicyclists, pedestrians)

instead of just front- or rear-on. It is also fully road-legal, and the

brighter bulbs will mean your newly-activated side turn signal repeaters

are clearly visible in bright daylight, too, not just after dark.

With your two-wire side marker lights you have two options for how to do this,

both described at the link. Use the logic module method (module kit $59)

if you want the side markers always to flash in phase with the front and

rear indicators, or use the cross-feed method (no module required, just

a couple of wire connectors) if you don't mind opposite-phase flashing

of the front side marker light when the parking lamps or headlamps are

lit. Either way is legal throughout North America; elsewhere in the

world, international rules do not permit opposite-phase flashing.

When installing things like daytime running lights and sidemarker

flashing, It's best not to use the fold-over-and-crunch "Scotchlok" type

taps. Much better, more durably trouble-free result if you use

Posi-Taps, http://www.allpar.com/reviews/other/posi-tap.html . I don't

carry them, but if you'll get this assortment, you'll surely find uses

for them (they're one of those products that you buy for a particular

project, but then other uses for them keep popping up in front of you

once you have them): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009RPDOAM/?tag=2402507-20

The main exterior signal lamps can safely be made 45% brighter with

special high-efficiency bulbs available (only) through the Honda parts

system.

The single-filament variety with a single contact in the centre of the

bottom of the bulb's base (replacing 1076, 1141, 1156, P21W, P25-1, and

a few others—these go in your reversing lamps) is

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IFP9P4O/?tag=2402507-20 .

The dual-filament variety with two contacts side-by-side on the bottom

of the bulb's base (replacing 1034, 1157, 2057, P21/5W, P25-2, and a few

others—these go in the brake lights and front turn signals) is

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFDIN0K/?tag=2402507-20 . These only come in

clear; if you need an amber bulb because your front turn signal lenses

are also clear/colourless, use

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IY7TGQ/?tag=2402507-20 .

Another easy safety pickup: put in a new-type turn signal flasher

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P4QLLL9/?tag=2402507-20 (2-prong like

original; connect its ground wire conveniently). These have much lower

internal resistance than the original type, for brighter turn signals.

"Ew, no, I want to put LEDs in my brake lights and turn signals!"

Welll…maybe and maybe not. Here's what to know about LED retrofit bulbs

in vehicle signal lamps (brake lights, tail lights, parking lights, turn

signals, etc).

First, the quick nutshell version:

-Answer to "Will it work?" is a whole lot more complicated than is

commonly understood.

-Fundamentally different kind of light source, so unlike with filament

bulbs, physical fit doesn't guarantee optical compatibility/acceptable

performance.

-Giant mountain of unsafe junk on the market, all fraudulently hyped as

an upgrade.

-A few legitimate products that work OK in _some_ of the lamps they fit

in; important to check the actual function carefully.

-Optical compatibility isn't the only issue; there's also electrical

compatibility and thermal concerns.

Now here's the long, detailed version:

Let's start with how signal lamps (parking lamps, turn signals, side

marker lights, brake lights, tail lights, reversing lamps) have to work.

It's a lot more complicated than just "Yep, that lights up and looks

good to me". Please take a look at this post, which I wrote years ago,

in re someone who was very ambitiously making his own LED taillights for

an old Dodge Dart:

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/66-dart-led-prototype-working-for-now.169147/#post-1635365

This info applies no matter what kind of light source we're working

with; I point you at it _not_ because I think you should go to the

use (or doesn't only use) a reflector bowl. Instead, these lamps have

Fresnel-type optics, the kind where the lens has a central magnifying

area directly in line with the filament of the installed bulb, and

spreader optics surrounding that magnifier. Often the magnifier is a

round bullseye and the spreaders are a series of round prismatic rings

surrounding the bullseye, but sometimes the magnifier is square or

rectangular and the surrounding prisms are rectilinear. The Bullnose

trucks use this kind of lamp for the front turn signals. If there's no

light directly out the front of the LED bulb, there will be minimal to

zero useful output from the lamp.

Philips used to make some LED bulbs that did have significant frontward

light, but they discontinued them and now they market two different

product families, both of which are inferior to that first family. Which

is unfortunate, but that's the world we live in.

There are the thermal issues with LED bulbs. Unlike with previous light

sources (light and heat coincident out the front of the lamp), an LED

puts out light from its front side and heat from its back side. The

light goes forward, the heat goes back. As the LED heats up, its light

output drops (it's called "droop"), so each LED must have an adequate

heat sink to carry the heat away from the emitter and prevent it heating

up high enough to drop the output low enough to put the lamp's output

below the minimum requirement. LED vehicle lamps (designed and

engineered as such) have to pass tests for output maintenance with

prolonged operation, because that's a real-world situation (stuck in

traffic with foot on the brake, tail/parking lights operating for hours

on end, etc). This is a challenging requirement for even legitimate LED

lamps, and it's a really difficult challenge for such a thing as an LED

bulb, because there's a very limited amount of space for any heat

sinking, and all of it's going to be inside the lamp there with the

heat-emitting LEDs—there's no way to use outside air to cool the LEDs

unless you have a big honkin' rear housing on the LED bulb. There are

some out there like this, and they create physical-fit problems (not

enough room behind the lamp for the big honkin' housing) and other

issues related to improper fit in the bulb hole.

Finally, there's another matter that affects the compatibility of LED

bulbs with lamps designed to use filament bulbs: most white LED bulbs

are high-CCT ("cold white"), like 5000K, 6000K, or higher. That's

cold/blue-white light. These white LEDs produce very little red light.

Put such an LED behind a red lens, and you get a dim, muddy,

pinkish-brown light that's way outside the boundaries of what's

allowable as red. This is a bad idea, as we're talking about lights that

are supposed to immediately convey the vehicle's position/direction of

travel and that it's decelerating. Messing with their colour, intensity,

and light distribution makes them unable to do their job keeping you

from getting hit.

If you want to try LED bulbs in the brake lights, you can try

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A77TV4Q/?tag=2402507-20 — these are the only

ones worth trying. That "try" language is deliberate; I repeat myself:

you'll need to carefully assess the performance of these bulbs in your

particular lamps by comparing them side-by-side with the original

incandescents as reasonably well described at

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?452592-How-to-Evaluate-Safety-of-LED-Bulb-Retrofits-in-Brake-Signal-Marker-Lights

(and that new-type turn signal flasher linked above is _mandatory_

with LED bulbs).

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Cheers and drive safely,

Daniel Stern (he - him - his)

Lots of great info there, I will have to read again later before ordering some of those items!

[Gary Lewis]

Lots of great info there, I will have to read again later before ordering some of those items!

Yes, there is a TON of info in there! Good reading and re-reading. I've scanned it, read it, and am about to re-read it. I'm especially interested in the side marker lamps 3x brighter and make them work in conjunction with the turn signals. If I'm going to be pulling the headlight doors to put in new headlights I might as well do that at the same time. And, put brighter bulbs in the turn signals. And maybe make them DRL's.

But in that email Daniel said "With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request." So I asked him to explain that, and his response makes a lot of sense:

Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results

. Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the

standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-wattage bulb (bulb "D") is not as

good as with the high-luminance standard-wattage bulb (bulb "C").

As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both

in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam

focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of

light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of the filament

the poorer the beam focus. Effective seeing distance plummets. At the same

time, foreground light goes to nuclear levels, which does two things at

the same time:

1) It fools you into thinking you've got "excellent" lighting. We humans

are very poor subjective judges of our visual performance; it's very easy

to create situations in which we think/feel we can see much better (or

much worse) than we actually can.

2) It absolutely kills your distance vision. The brightly-lit foreground

causes your pupils to constrict, with the result that you can meaningfully

see all the irrelevant stuff going on within 50 feet of the car, and

beyond that, you're effectively blind.

And using massive overwattage low beams in a truck/van/SUV with

headlamps mounted higher than they are in a passenger car means you

either produce extremely

blinding glare for other road users (some of whom will write you tickets

for it), or you tip down the aim so far that your seeing range is sharply

geometrically limited. Either way, you lose.

[Rusty_S85]

Yes, there is a TON of info in there! Good reading and re-reading. I've scanned it, read it, and am about to re-read it. I'm especially interested in the side marker lamps 3x brighter and make them work in conjunction with the turn signals. If I'm going to be pulling the headlight doors to put in new headlights I might as well do that at the same time. And, put brighter bulbs in the turn signals. And maybe make them DRL's. http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/thinking-26_orig.jpg

But in that email Daniel said "With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request." So I asked him to explain that, and his response makes a lot of sense:

Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results

. Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the

standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-wattage bulb (bulb "D") is not as

good as with the high-luminance standard-wattage bulb (bulb "C").

As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both

in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam

focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of

light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of the filament

the poorer the beam focus. Effective seeing distance plummets. At the same

time, foreground light goes to nuclear levels, which does two things at

the same time:

1) It fools you into thinking you've got "excellent" lighting. We humans

are very poor subjective judges of our visual performance; it's very easy

to create situations in which we think/feel we can see much better (or

much worse) than we actually can.

2) It absolutely kills your distance vision. The brightly-lit foreground

causes your pupils to constrict, with the result that you can meaningfully

see all the irrelevant stuff going on within 50 feet of the car, and

beyond that, you're effectively blind.

And using massive overwattage low beams in a truck/van/SUV with

headlamps mounted higher than they are in a passenger car means you

either produce extremely

blinding glare for other road users (some of whom will write you tickets

for it), or you tip down the aim so far that your seeing range is sharply

geometrically limited. Either way, you lose.

For LED auxiliary bulbs below is what I use with great success.

For my '78 Mercury the side light that lights up with the turn signal to illuminate around dark corners is a 1156 bulb. When I fixed the system to functional I used a 90w 1156 LED projector bulb that looks just like the one below. When I put the turn signal on it will actually illuminate my whole front yard and the neighbors front yard and side of their house. With a traditional 1156 bulb it lit half my front yard up.

For the T10 wedge bulbs I typically use the 5 smd bulb as show below

I also have some 20 smd bulbs in the T10 wedge base as well as below.

Problem is you have to have some room, using one of these T10 wedge bulbs in amber on the fender side marker light will result in a super bright hot spot in the middle that appears white. Its a big reason why I only use LED bulbs on the interior. Another reason is you have to get a projector bulb like the one I first posted that is pushing 90W if you want an NOS flasher to function properly other wise the load will be too low and will have a weird flash pattern if you are lucky.

[Gary Lewis]

For LED auxiliary bulbs below is what I use with great success.

For my '78 Mercury the side light that lights up with the turn signal to illuminate around dark corners is a 1156 bulb. When I fixed the system to functional I used a 90w 1156 LED projector bulb that looks just like the one below. When I put the turn signal on it will actually illuminate my whole front yard and the neighbors front yard and side of their house. With a traditional 1156 bulb it lit half my front yard up.

For the T10 wedge bulbs I typically use the 5 smd bulb as show below

I also have some 20 smd bulbs in the T10 wedge base as well as below.

Problem is you have to have some room, using one of these T10 wedge bulbs in amber on the fender side marker light will result in a super bright hot spot in the middle that appears white. Its a big reason why I only use LED bulbs on the interior. Another reason is you have to get a projector bulb like the one I first posted that is pushing 90W if you want an NOS flasher to function properly other wise the load will be too low and will have a weird flash pattern if you are lucky.

Thanks, Rusty. But could you provide some links? The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing. So if you know what works we need to document it.

And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller. Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load. I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's. As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine.

[Rusty_S85]

Thanks, Rusty. But could you provide some links? The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing. So if you know what works we need to document it.

And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller. Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load. I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's. As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine.

I can provide some links but they might not be to the exact ones I bought as I bulked up and ebay doesnt go back far enough on purchases to get the exact vendors but most of them were vendors from China as I was able to buy them in 50 to 100 piece packs while the ones sold from mostly california in 2 to 10 packs are the same chinese bulbs that they get the bulk packs and break them down.

But for the T10 I pick up ones like this in the bulk pack.

Blue (avoid ice blue)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283617810756?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4208f05944:g:CNYAAOSwHRVdbzE9&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSwcmzw5CLtzTE60FqHcnq2Oz1d0WAmyDSU6APbw4YYAM4%252FHdTg7NXnZ65P7TfDpqLtVhc6ChZudmP%252FPHIem5K%252Fz8yQZvdaXR5U0jWLTJH1r2nqY5aBCGOsnBpC6Obp83BiOygSTBrtGWB3ecUB4%252BB9mdrDoHxShDHRlen7Zj%252FbJeomIobvDvQLHo2h2zU3cZG1wJdMXgiIZn5TLLaczaS2KM2RcvGN6nwSjIeXPl4u0Mh8s6DwuCHlIyYEzofhNDTTre3OTnhfZ%252FEmeQMOIECP6la8qjrnw1VZwPKVrYnsGgFgiZmVN9rIQPN31ZIwm5hh%252FjN5CXRiS7S36unBWnbn2aa8FjaDaQFj9WJQUcLV51xlzOPIqJw0JCPDrj24lhDvTU6nMv9V5V%252B6PYUxA7TmfRMhC3HMBZvmJ4omUDtu76pd2s%252BfaScxEaqTjZjQ1bfHaApTOW11hhmwNZyiKQ7ZXjRwdpO%252FSODOTZEOMLbPP%252Basue%252Bm7Q%252FUkereo%252B8zRBME2CLv5U0TJluC65NsoiXAwGLUhABgWyJqYkGDUczCgRyyi7CZBDEciHjHnzzAq3zcRtUH2OsdnVaMiGk%252BPT3iY213gViwYtsj8deIEZRCvsQSIJW7lyUBg7d1OpK1HFSjCnaSSca3tESxYtaqa%252F4nJACaAxQVODSkEREd45u40uUHCeX5RO4OO3wwsa1wIzfuVQSzVrSUhtPdJ58UmCG%252B%252Fy3LirnHaOVwFptPps7D3YRCgYAp977JMCpHaPjd3WmPksgjbTj6kZAcNieiEggFEzNivWwb0uuhEcFj1%252FRXUaZGqdD5dZUdM1lscgnV1KDWOaMaJY3g7RtiwvSx0BOGQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMipD5_pdf

Amber

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192914634529?hash=item2cea9bb721:g:rIUAAOSwiTRc2OE6

Red

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324845555471?fits=Model%3A5&hash=item4ba24dcf0f:g:NMYAAOSw2KxhYSPO

Green

https://www.ebay.com/itm/403196707736?hash=item5de0658398:g:Oh8AAOSw8YxhU-XO

Warm White

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194342323179?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2d3fb483eb:g:TdcAAOSwm8VhNrKr&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSd3M8ngECaRA0SmyU4KT%252Fnlk8GWnO4k5Y4oVxZkIEL5GUiE932K8TiP6%252Fu%252B58rTaTfSzNK3gRt3iBWNOoGS8DVx%252BrtIWgUA6RVuAuW4XpngfMSPzg6bd5q0OY3UNpWA8QfkN6MLZhXOCQaDy%252B7gSWPw%252BuTqfRnbreYgnNbt%252B3rOgs0A%252BGzJZlDCp2AeJjUXLCXqvVGB9vu6LWmu3sZZ9utGPcnfS2bVtDMaBXZy9xtGjrsDlmy0GuXxhQIR7PZ80r%252Fg2euJ4I5j3mEaQY40kimH1S96%252BEMv32%252FSm4JQdFjQjbuYk33rpwMbNJxFoZrOVQL783orrkqEJRbN7qDwmlhuIfmk8k1gpciN6YZnomRE6B7SSYT8o50oLZXPFlD%252F3je9WduYmtE4fxGMMIjf8Inr%252BbgNTlAlYXgtHdwSXCqypvS2mfVKMIY%252FJZIlnSc5mDDu7fVjBBKdDR8yCe75DyIZ4s%252BMsEXBn0QAQpcUpOXOeLAAnO7ASsfwxNeVCp9%252FeF8brE80F7iSi1Qb%252FGqxw%252F9H5TRouyIhtBg4UF95nr44lnEmj0Q4p%252FcQQnT%252BJERK0p%252FU9XbYQwqf3b1KDP%252BezCT8YLm0iUPgtggwJ4tOTd%252BW7hkmihwmhcuN1jN9CZPNAll%252FRFGrPcjOMimsIim%252BekZrIgVP9%252FsqzJAHrGcKFbmrhqQ7ouejJvbyWzrXo9NtcyERjns7XN97CR7boQOqDr53HSg0pAjJVl6Y4GLQtVEuwRf5IT8rSkbnvzUhSAOoLviFp3Cuxdo5CmXUvvq9X%252Boq54dTINZI91ud84TaPDYzffbAdUkJIZMASnvQyOCi91AS8tgxcfwWPAojw6qrZj4pu6QvKQtWY1j%252BHJn1axfhc%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMksiX_5df

White

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233464157227?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item365b8c542b:g:6BAAAOSwWl5eHCgO&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSRAQR8FABHjfpFoyRlXhWmca10VglFEE3HNeGNTwmJ4ugLDJ%252FQVgr%252Bq%252BIhh2WlYpcgvfa1gQts2d5GLL2oe46vKQstpxXSMkZ1qVlxODaJe0Ro4Sh1iQW42R3DI8PJPbFTCvhwRqTLiRM1PJUt8jA5RmWdNZ7eH%252B3rsQeFrQdFwPHNLPDXlsRxxJXuG2NTWVINvlvAu2D%252FObmc3Mh3u6NJyoCG14HBhGewB6MiKh1arzWG4CkRBWMBZ6mWRUr%252BjUK66uxVajMERXz%252BeCTA3XQMXiVbD1xVQQ6fZFBgrztduj9fuUs6x7s%252FMecZaUtIsfnGpdUfJf2mQX5kklAD8hifMGt8R9oVEn%252F9Nwqc5fYKLStWTNli%252BPUaCpTNF8PGxzyFeC%252BKuLq%252FsC%252F7FYm6bOtpRjwhh7HCjQEGXk82q3DxE4Lmy5kSUjyVuT45k%252B2Alhd%252BBbIN7kNCrYe2JaQmOBZ1JwrxhSRY0BM%252FgoAL1qI%252FgJo6DkBIvA3Khj1mNCgyduFd3BfeBvccFu3R%252BSVgUm6KJWB2DztQO7jy%252F4CzSkoLFVxxVWOs%252FQ29Cdam4%252BTfC%252F9USY38E%252FxKZGuAzLA0c9i5XWj6y98ZLfoc0xVJ5Ul7h4jeqFu%252F4Aps%252F%252FvywaIILUQOM%252BNYqiittEZQ%252FAigGWUCYlRHBVaLspez%252Fz4XsVTDRfyR9iRmwxekBVUavM%252BhD17sBP3N%252FrLC4qhKYclv%252FcYEGmUYDE3Ux%252FBkPYoTsygmDIvHkEnKKlEM%252F%252BczEreU4IDijl5lFfZvQPQBEJ%252BRBv3%252Fc%252F5SylafMDzIW3uHKAnwVfCuoMfDo7TB0sSzbHH2AEdhg5VdPoraSae%252BnuG%252FC58fw%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMivyZ_5df

For the 1156 projector bulb

Red

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232312527629?hash=item3616e7db0d:g:0yEAAOSwZcxdlNWj

Amber (seems they dont have the old style anymore this I think is the new style still 80W)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282612810097?hash=item41cd094171:g:~uYAAOSwehVaj7mX

White

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274901922035?hash=item40016e70f3:g:c0MAAOSwo8hTp7z2

Then for 1157 bulbs for turn signals and brake lights

Red

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174710519562?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item28ad8ef70a:g:-MgAAOSwXW9gYXOQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSDAeS9EQtjPGVfKXTxF0%252Bjg4GqXdZ2lk%252FeTRbYXn2y2RvqgPqeL2pQsSvpniYSce5cHR67LFXc1WHnNgbQWhIJ1MNhQyMhvylXIxb0MG599LUu2ySRM8m5Ql5%252FSnZpDbMILB24eD0dkPjB9o3slLic8TARXbjQOWyIP3I%252Bj00Q%252B0qVGzIjQh0Bw8pQN4OQkftTelEM%252Bzq6e%252B9t3AT7IybNu9jBp%252FEnAtbmU%252BcVLhQa97p28IS5WcjWWg%252FpZmecCvo1i7Yoxo2PRPgm9m3NgxSHVB%252Br1r6t2lIwqFz10Q9CkixPJITZGnjrznuzPmTL0B4L1F%252BO0opTzsDQp1ICCQA07mfqfm2w28zfATAeaso8fAWyH5AJN3CePKljGOZ1vlRQ4EcPjdeqU0M5RBnmmtqNMF4Ss3arAlSjTM4hh7EqYssWMlVVu8r%252BqlABBFVj41dbprJVRlMXU1vZykuo9Tj43Tv0RbZjyrZ%252BdZkak911g1WQm8I%252BYBJXtKRQK8EFruBtYtOEPCHy4Zi%252B%252FA2NuhRDWk1cZ9LT9EsPczYc3J5BHUdikHRrtAzCBW3%252BCtK0IVAXuCIhri8CKcIXOO9W%252FsEfBa8nuEU6QI%252FqjbGCO%252F6In8PRaFL1E80EyocTCG7%252Brllupg%252BaJ9oahkZXROk2luV2hW432PsbH8LlZ%252F3nrnzm8K7v%252BLZICEE6xo%252FVkj4Bi4c8pxBqu%252FMFMT%252Fq30rKFS%252BBVLdjTjmbDy3ONSJnh4s5F1qqN%252BCld%252FhVnKF6JhvBeAVc5hBp9tjh97e%252FCOkVazbmBKNmsU0CNFw%252FI9rcf69FMNEM7OYNe2Iq9i9s5lfvgveN5FwFbAVcoUe%252FMc8uUUj9vHU5Y0vSY4%252FhJM%252FYDBM4FI%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM9p3B_5df

Amber (no listings online for this model)

If you are going to run back up lights in LED these are in my LED bulb box and I would use them in various applications based off how much room I have for the bulb.

1156 13-smd super white

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333246570013?epid=28034772841&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4d970b1e1d:g:QtsAAOSwPzZfH6oD&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSprd4IgPv6LBzlteBBg9Pe7fBudMHwkTbmvQumRdK4sngdEFMRJZ22OPa06WJbySzRXhnNJkAx3jn2nj69ka1%252F8UDSfJyy%252Fs4FAEUFDSPFQcEM2ZJWb9SBjZ8psFuGWAAUrC0%252BRIt%252Bj9d2RGBqRFQs%252FgSeex8Akc8BPjUOepexCNvPgP9w29TJRSU8ARDqtSB44GZcUP90%252BHGtJKS9DkxJ7jX30fglU%252FXgqz9I%252FysUWU%252BQwRc5tS4RNW4A4Pa0CXP1%252BLH%252Fv3fGTOgCxBYJ02lgFGfo%252BJFYGm0IixyDjsssomNJVAYCJi2zcJ5weFDLWA6%252FO8c%252BvltuG3iowd1pecMZk6N3PMAFeUMIYRKArdwygIkP4wOjSZJXbkzyVUwD2Ktykjw8H1jBlljtfBXUfBU4SGXB2GJ3EZf3BDHin8i4%252BfXak%252FbMmiP9bbqZ6gtuzyG5LGA5TrPjn9TjBj9h56D3qoVKi27TtwPtL3XH2aAkYyeGqTtcYi2YVcURdQUgP8Nmw028Ki3Q26a00tw3t9rfa2%252FHwREpcIinRynCIJ0wDUpkA3wRWSgeilyfnRuGhMRhxCXIVtn3XBU1NqmMUpyaINtf%252FFfbU5rCQ6Z5HL47TaxFZsp9%252FmBXnI3y3iEgnm%252FpeFNtJ97E%252FeOvLJMV93BURCASyQQ6wOZcCtaesoXqGGSEfJYtwdoZwSWWwH58PHod6AfNP1RhJkTHovGxQcJ62J6ZidReqHmevEPttBSF7WymfdqwHYEVg2IfBoivTJxk6hKPGVFqpMbeMyarjxFRX%252FJfGS1z0SsCUHqpe3gLWZhQEBy8hEmBonQkFKron6l6VzdXaYpOhJHlKG6TiM65g%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMmtzG_5df

1156 64-smd super white

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193636612369?epid=4042886641&hash=item2d15a43911:g:PXcAAOSwUkVgZHCk

1156 22-smd super white

https://www.ebay.com/itm/402659853645?hash=item5dc065c54d:g:n4wAAOSwLjpgDo8Q

The last one I use in very limited space for back up lights, these would be a last resort as they have more of a spot light effect than bouncing light around the housing providing a more even lighting.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Rusty. But could you provide some links? The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing. So if you know what works we need to document it.

And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller. Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load. I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's. As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine.

I can provide some links but they might not be to the exact ones I bought as I bulked up and ebay doesnt go back far enough on purchases to get the exact vendors but most of them were vendors from China as I was able to buy them in 50 to 100 piece packs while the ones sold from mostly california in 2 to 10 packs are the same chinese bulbs that they get the bulk packs and break them down.

But for the T10 I pick up ones like this in the bulk pack.

Blue (avoid ice blue)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283617810756?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4208f05944:g:CNYAAOSwHRVdbzE9&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSwcmzw5CLtzTE60FqHcnq2Oz1d0WAmyDSU6APbw4YYAM4%252FHdTg7NXnZ65P7TfDpqLtVhc6ChZudmP%252FPHIem5K%252Fz8yQZvdaXR5U0jWLTJH1r2nqY5aBCGOsnBpC6Obp83BiOygSTBrtGWB3ecUB4%252BB9mdrDoHxShDHRlen7Zj%252FbJeomIobvDvQLHo2h2zU3cZG1wJdMXgiIZn5TLLaczaS2KM2RcvGN6nwSjIeXPl4u0Mh8s6DwuCHlIyYEzofhNDTTre3OTnhfZ%252FEmeQMOIECP6la8qjrnw1VZwPKVrYnsGgFgiZmVN9rIQPN31ZIwm5hh%252FjN5CXRiS7S36unBWnbn2aa8FjaDaQFj9WJQUcLV51xlzOPIqJw0JCPDrj24lhDvTU6nMv9V5V%252B6PYUxA7TmfRMhC3HMBZvmJ4omUDtu76pd2s%252BfaScxEaqTjZjQ1bfHaApTOW11hhmwNZyiKQ7ZXjRwdpO%252FSODOTZEOMLbPP%252Basue%252Bm7Q%252FUkereo%252B8zRBME2CLv5U0TJluC65NsoiXAwGLUhABgWyJqYkGDUczCgRyyi7CZBDEciHjHnzzAq3zcRtUH2OsdnVaMiGk%252BPT3iY213gViwYtsj8deIEZRCvsQSIJW7lyUBg7d1OpK1HFSjCnaSSca3tESxYtaqa%252F4nJACaAxQVODSkEREd45u40uUHCeX5RO4OO3wwsa1wIzfuVQSzVrSUhtPdJ58UmCG%252B%252Fy3LirnHaOVwFptPps7D3YRCgYAp977JMCpHaPjd3WmPksgjbTj6kZAcNieiEggFEzNivWwb0uuhEcFj1%252FRXUaZGqdD5dZUdM1lscgnV1KDWOaMaJY3g7RtiwvSx0BOGQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMipD5_pdf

Amber

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192914634529?hash=item2cea9bb721:g:rIUAAOSwiTRc2OE6

Red

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324845555471?fits=Model%3A5&hash=item4ba24dcf0f:g:NMYAAOSw2KxhYSPO

Green

https://www.ebay.com/itm/403196707736?hash=item5de0658398:g:Oh8AAOSw8YxhU-XO

Warm White

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194342323179?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2d3fb483eb:g:TdcAAOSwm8VhNrKr&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSd3M8ngECaRA0SmyU4KT%252Fnlk8GWnO4k5Y4oVxZkIEL5GUiE932K8TiP6%252Fu%252B58rTaTfSzNK3gRt3iBWNOoGS8DVx%252BrtIWgUA6RVuAuW4XpngfMSPzg6bd5q0OY3UNpWA8QfkN6MLZhXOCQaDy%252B7gSWPw%252BuTqfRnbreYgnNbt%252B3rOgs0A%252BGzJZlDCp2AeJjUXLCXqvVGB9vu6LWmu3sZZ9utGPcnfS2bVtDMaBXZy9xtGjrsDlmy0GuXxhQIR7PZ80r%252Fg2euJ4I5j3mEaQY40kimH1S96%252BEMv32%252FSm4JQdFjQjbuYk33rpwMbNJxFoZrOVQL783orrkqEJRbN7qDwmlhuIfmk8k1gpciN6YZnomRE6B7SSYT8o50oLZXPFlD%252F3je9WduYmtE4fxGMMIjf8Inr%252BbgNTlAlYXgtHdwSXCqypvS2mfVKMIY%252FJZIlnSc5mDDu7fVjBBKdDR8yCe75DyIZ4s%252BMsEXBn0QAQpcUpOXOeLAAnO7ASsfwxNeVCp9%252FeF8brE80F7iSi1Qb%252FGqxw%252F9H5TRouyIhtBg4UF95nr44lnEmj0Q4p%252FcQQnT%252BJERK0p%252FU9XbYQwqf3b1KDP%252BezCT8YLm0iUPgtggwJ4tOTd%252BW7hkmihwmhcuN1jN9CZPNAll%252FRFGrPcjOMimsIim%252BekZrIgVP9%252FsqzJAHrGcKFbmrhqQ7ouejJvbyWzrXo9NtcyERjns7XN97CR7boQOqDr53HSg0pAjJVl6Y4GLQtVEuwRf5IT8rSkbnvzUhSAOoLviFp3Cuxdo5CmXUvvq9X%252Boq54dTINZI91ud84TaPDYzffbAdUkJIZMASnvQyOCi91AS8tgxcfwWPAojw6qrZj4pu6QvKQtWY1j%252BHJn1axfhc%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMksiX_5df

White

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233464157227?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item365b8c542b:g:6BAAAOSwWl5eHCgO&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSRAQR8FABHjfpFoyRlXhWmca10VglFEE3HNeGNTwmJ4ugLDJ%252FQVgr%252Bq%252BIhh2WlYpcgvfa1gQts2d5GLL2oe46vKQstpxXSMkZ1qVlxODaJe0Ro4Sh1iQW42R3DI8PJPbFTCvhwRqTLiRM1PJUt8jA5RmWdNZ7eH%252B3rsQeFrQdFwPHNLPDXlsRxxJXuG2NTWVINvlvAu2D%252FObmc3Mh3u6NJyoCG14HBhGewB6MiKh1arzWG4CkRBWMBZ6mWRUr%252BjUK66uxVajMERXz%252BeCTA3XQMXiVbD1xVQQ6fZFBgrztduj9fuUs6x7s%252FMecZaUtIsfnGpdUfJf2mQX5kklAD8hifMGt8R9oVEn%252F9Nwqc5fYKLStWTNli%252BPUaCpTNF8PGxzyFeC%252BKuLq%252FsC%252F7FYm6bOtpRjwhh7HCjQEGXk82q3DxE4Lmy5kSUjyVuT45k%252B2Alhd%252BBbIN7kNCrYe2JaQmOBZ1JwrxhSRY0BM%252FgoAL1qI%252FgJo6DkBIvA3Khj1mNCgyduFd3BfeBvccFu3R%252BSVgUm6KJWB2DztQO7jy%252F4CzSkoLFVxxVWOs%252FQ29Cdam4%252BTfC%252F9USY38E%252FxKZGuAzLA0c9i5XWj6y98ZLfoc0xVJ5Ul7h4jeqFu%252F4Aps%252F%252FvywaIILUQOM%252BNYqiittEZQ%252FAigGWUCYlRHBVaLspez%252Fz4XsVTDRfyR9iRmwxekBVUavM%252BhD17sBP3N%252FrLC4qhKYclv%252FcYEGmUYDE3Ux%252FBkPYoTsygmDIvHkEnKKlEM%252F%252BczEreU4IDijl5lFfZvQPQBEJ%252BRBv3%252Fc%252F5SylafMDzIW3uHKAnwVfCuoMfDo7TB0sSzbHH2AEdhg5VdPoraSae%252BnuG%252FC58fw%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMivyZ_5df

For the 1156 projector bulb

Red

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232312527629?hash=item3616e7db0d:g:0yEAAOSwZcxdlNWj

Amber (seems they dont have the old style anymore this I think is the new style still 80W)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282612810097?hash=item41cd094171:g:~uYAAOSwehVaj7mX

White

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274901922035?hash=item40016e70f3:g:c0MAAOSwo8hTp7z2

Then for 1157 bulbs for turn signals and brake lights

Red

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174710519562?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item28ad8ef70a:g:-MgAAOSwXW9gYXOQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSDAeS9EQtjPGVfKXTxF0%252Bjg4GqXdZ2lk%252FeTRbYXn2y2RvqgPqeL2pQsSvpniYSce5cHR67LFXc1WHnNgbQWhIJ1MNhQyMhvylXIxb0MG599LUu2ySRM8m5Ql5%252FSnZpDbMILB24eD0dkPjB9o3slLic8TARXbjQOWyIP3I%252Bj00Q%252B0qVGzIjQh0Bw8pQN4OQkftTelEM%252Bzq6e%252B9t3AT7IybNu9jBp%252FEnAtbmU%252BcVLhQa97p28IS5WcjWWg%252FpZmecCvo1i7Yoxo2PRPgm9m3NgxSHVB%252Br1r6t2lIwqFz10Q9CkixPJITZGnjrznuzPmTL0B4L1F%252BO0opTzsDQp1ICCQA07mfqfm2w28zfATAeaso8fAWyH5AJN3CePKljGOZ1vlRQ4EcPjdeqU0M5RBnmmtqNMF4Ss3arAlSjTM4hh7EqYssWMlVVu8r%252BqlABBFVj41dbprJVRlMXU1vZykuo9Tj43Tv0RbZjyrZ%252BdZkak911g1WQm8I%252BYBJXtKRQK8EFruBtYtOEPCHy4Zi%252B%252FA2NuhRDWk1cZ9LT9EsPczYc3J5BHUdikHRrtAzCBW3%252BCtK0IVAXuCIhri8CKcIXOO9W%252FsEfBa8nuEU6QI%252FqjbGCO%252F6In8PRaFL1E80EyocTCG7%252Brllupg%252BaJ9oahkZXROk2luV2hW432PsbH8LlZ%252F3nrnzm8K7v%252BLZICEE6xo%252FVkj4Bi4c8pxBqu%252FMFMT%252Fq30rKFS%252BBVLdjTjmbDy3ONSJnh4s5F1qqN%252BCld%252FhVnKF6JhvBeAVc5hBp9tjh97e%252FCOkVazbmBKNmsU0CNFw%252FI9rcf69FMNEM7OYNe2Iq9i9s5lfvgveN5FwFbAVcoUe%252FMc8uUUj9vHU5Y0vSY4%252FhJM%252FYDBM4FI%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM9p3B_5df

Amber (no listings online for this model)

If you are going to run back up lights in LED these are in my LED bulb box and I would use them in various applications based off how much room I have for the bulb.

1156 13-smd super white

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333246570013?epid=28034772841&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4d970b1e1d:g:QtsAAOSwPzZfH6oD&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSprd4IgPv6LBzlteBBg9Pe7fBudMHwkTbmvQumRdK4sngdEFMRJZ22OPa06WJbySzRXhnNJkAx3jn2nj69ka1%252F8UDSfJyy%252Fs4FAEUFDSPFQcEM2ZJWb9SBjZ8psFuGWAAUrC0%252BRIt%252Bj9d2RGBqRFQs%252FgSeex8Akc8BPjUOepexCNvPgP9w29TJRSU8ARDqtSB44GZcUP90%252BHGtJKS9DkxJ7jX30fglU%252FXgqz9I%252FysUWU%252BQwRc5tS4RNW4A4Pa0CXP1%252BLH%252Fv3fGTOgCxBYJ02lgFGfo%252BJFYGm0IixyDjsssomNJVAYCJi2zcJ5weFDLWA6%252FO8c%252BvltuG3iowd1pecMZk6N3PMAFeUMIYRKArdwygIkP4wOjSZJXbkzyVUwD2Ktykjw8H1jBlljtfBXUfBU4SGXB2GJ3EZf3BDHin8i4%252BfXak%252FbMmiP9bbqZ6gtuzyG5LGA5TrPjn9TjBj9h56D3qoVKi27TtwPtL3XH2aAkYyeGqTtcYi2YVcURdQUgP8Nmw028Ki3Q26a00tw3t9rfa2%252FHwREpcIinRynCIJ0wDUpkA3wRWSgeilyfnRuGhMRhxCXIVtn3XBU1NqmMUpyaINtf%252FFfbU5rCQ6Z5HL47TaxFZsp9%252FmBXnI3y3iEgnm%252FpeFNtJ97E%252FeOvLJMV93BURCASyQQ6wOZcCtaesoXqGGSEfJYtwdoZwSWWwH58PHod6AfNP1RhJkTHovGxQcJ62J6ZidReqHmevEPttBSF7WymfdqwHYEVg2IfBoivTJxk6hKPGVFqpMbeMyarjxFRX%252FJfGS1z0SsCUHqpe3gLWZhQEBy8hEmBonQkFKron6l6VzdXaYpOhJHlKG6TiM65g%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMmtzG_5df

1156 64-smd super white

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193636612369?epid=4042886641&hash=item2d15a43911:g:PXcAAOSwUkVgZHCk

1156 22-smd super white

https://www.ebay.com/itm/402659853645?hash=item5dc065c54d:g:n4wAAOSwLjpgDo8Q

The last one I use in very limited space for back up lights, these would be a last resort as they have more of a spot light effect than bouncing light around the housing providing a more even lighting.

Thanks, Rusty.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Rusty.

Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year. Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern.

Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series? I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing. And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available. Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights. And my research found that almost everyone loved them. Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums. Therein Virgil said:

"I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how."

 

[Rusty_S85]

Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year. Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern.

Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series? I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing. And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available. Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights. And my research found that almost everyone loved them. Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums. Therein Virgil said:

"I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how."

Yep thats why I never posted on here when the Retrobright LED bulbs came out by Holley.

A) They are insanely expensive for what you are getting. For our trucks the 5"x7" they are $199.95/ea for the Modern white, Classic White, and Yellow. Thats $400 for lights for our trucks, for something like my '78 Mercury that has four bulbs thats $800.

B) There were no real test done on them which makes them very questionable to me. If there is no testing done that is provided and you cant really find legit comparisons odds are they are no good. It goes back to the K.C. LED Day Lighters, they claim those two tiny LED bulbs facing the reflector provides more light that is properly focused than a 100w Halogen bulb. I do not believe that and no where online can you find anything by official sources making a proper comparison, just a bunch of "these are cutting edge technology that is far superior than halogen bulbs".

In the end the concept is a great one, its just like for the restoration market it would be cool if someone would make concours bulbs that are LED for improved lighting but they look no different than the original bulb. Like for Ford make the rare raised FoMoCo logo in the middle and for GM can make the T3 triangle logo in the middle. If they did that then I would consider giving it a go.

This is a channel I follow on youtube cause it tends to show more details and its a interesting channel of a restoration being done by themselves. This is their video on comparison of the old sealed beam bulbs and the new Holley RetroBright bulbs that they were sent by Holley, they also have time stamps so you can skip to the RetroBright testing. They do look like they have a good low beam pattern but the high beam pattern looks a little questionable. They should be adjustable by tilting the bulb housing but its not something Id be willing to spend that much money on to give it a try.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year. Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern.

Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series? I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing. And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available. Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights. And my research found that almost everyone loved them. Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums. Therein Virgil said:

"I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how."

Yep thats why I never posted on here when the Retrobright LED bulbs came out by Holley.

A) They are insanely expensive for what you are getting. For our trucks the 5"x7" they are $199.95/ea for the Modern white, Classic White, and Yellow. Thats $400 for lights for our trucks, for something like my '78 Mercury that has four bulbs thats $800.

B) There were no real test done on them which makes them very questionable to me. If there is no testing done that is provided and you cant really find legit comparisons odds are they are no good. It goes back to the K.C. LED Day Lighters, they claim those two tiny LED bulbs facing the reflector provides more light that is properly focused than a 100w Halogen bulb. I do not believe that and no where online can you find anything by official sources making a proper comparison, just a bunch of "these are cutting edge technology that is far superior than halogen bulbs".

In the end the concept is a great one, its just like for the restoration market it would be cool if someone would make concours bulbs that are LED for improved lighting but they look no different than the original bulb. Like for Ford make the rare raised FoMoCo logo in the middle and for GM can make the T3 triangle logo in the middle. If they did that then I would consider giving it a go.

This is a channel I follow on youtube cause it tends to show more details and its a interesting channel of a restoration being done by themselves. This is their video on comparison of the old sealed beam bulbs and the new Holley RetroBright bulbs that they were sent by Holley, they also have time stamps so you can skip to the RetroBright testing. They do look like they have a good low beam pattern but the high beam pattern looks a little questionable. They should be adjustable by tilting the bulb housing but its not something Id be willing to spend that much money on to give it a try.

Gary will be glad to know that Sentinel Capital Partners now also owns MrGasket, as well as Holley.... 😁

https://www.holley.com/brands/

Expect what you will . I don't expect product which is "Good Enough" to see further development.

 

[Rembrant]

Great thread Gary,

I need to buy new 7" round headlights for my '52 pickup so I'll give this a read. I simply want the best bang for the buck, so not necessarily the brightest lights, but the brightest for the least amount of money .

By the way, are daytime running lights a thing in the US yet, or no? I have imported a few trucks from the US and always had to add the little aftermarket DRL kits to make them compliant up here;).