Gsmblue Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Well, I realized recently that it has been almost a year since I asked Daniel Stern, of Daniel Stern Lighting, to tell me about the latest in retrofit automotive lighting. His response is below, and is both very informative as well as lengthy. And much of it is the same or similar to previous responses, but there is enough new info to make it a good read. And I can see that I'm going to be spending $179 + 43.18 = $222.18 or more with Daniel in the near future. Hiya, Gary. Good to see from you. Some of this info you already know, but I'm sending it all in one go so you have it all in one place: The very best replaceable-bulb (H4) headlamps in the 200mm × 142mm (large rectangular) size you need are made in Japan by Koito, one of the top three makers of lighting equipment for the world's automakers. These are the most efficient (greatest amount of light on the road), best focused (most useful distribution of light), best-built (sturdiest glass and metal materials, most careful build quality) lamps of their type in this size. They are in stock, and cost $179/pair; pic is attached. There's a great deal of junk on the market, too. Delta, Roundeyes, Adjure, Eagle Eye, Rampage, Eaglite, Maxtel, Eurolite, Pilot, Neolite, Autopal, and dozens of other off-brand, poorly-made headlite-shaped trinkets. You're wise to steer clear of it all. The Hella lamp in this size is quite inefficient on low beam, which means inadequate, short seeing distance, and it has an obnoxious focus issue of excessive vertical distance between the low and high beam: if the lows are aimed where they should be, the highs are up in the trees, but if you put the highs dead-ahead as they ought to be, the lows are shortly in front of your front bumper. The Koito lamps do not have this irritating issue. *Wiring* You will definitely want to put in headlamp relays to take the workload off the switches and bring full power to the lamps. The concept is explained at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html ; in a nutshell it's because the car's existing wiring was designed to be adequate for the original low-power lamps when everything was new, and it doesn't improve with age. This can be achieved in a couple of different ways of varying cost and difficulty. One way is with a relay install kit RIK-2, $69. The RIK includes all the needed relays, brackets, terminal blocks, terminals, plugs, sockets, fuses and fuseholders, all in very fine quality (not the "consumer grade" junk you can find at the parts store). You supply your own wire (or your mechanic does) and use the parts from the kit to build up your own wiring harness. Or, I can have my harness builder custom build you a ready-to-install harness assembly using the same high-grade components that go in my build-it-yourself parts kits. Cost for this option is $199 (including parts and build). It costs more than the cheap, failure-prone prefab harnesses because it is not a cheap, failure-prone prefab harness. Or, the sweet spot: I've got built-up, install-ready harnesses for 2-lamp vehicles like yours for just $99 (that's $100 less than custom-built). These are quite nice (they easily pass the "would I use it on my own car at night in the mountains" test), and they're a whole lot better and more dependable than the poor-quality junk that's all over the internet for about the same price. These are very nicely made with name-brand high-current relays, splashproof fuseholders, quality terminals and sockets and plugs, 14-gauge wire, etc. The only thing you don't get is custom-tailored wire lengths. You won't have a "tuff luck, won't reach" situation, but you might wind up tucking some extra cable length neatly out of the way, or routing the cable under rather than over the radiator (for example) to take up some extra length. With either of the harnesses, installation is simple: you run the marked wires to battery positive and to battery negative, snap the harness plug onto one of the vehicle's original headlamp sockets, snap the harness sockets onto the headlamps, mount the relays (they have an easy mounting tab for a bolt or screw) and secure the cable runs and relays neatly out of harm's way. Either way, parts kit or built-up harness, the in-car switches continue working normally, and you will not need to cut or otherwise disturb any of the vehicle's original wires. *Bulbs* Bulb selection matters a _lot_ to how well you can (or can't) see at night. Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results . Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-efficacy bulb (bulb "C"). The current best pick in 60/55w bulbs is made by Tungsram (GE of Europe); it is a +120 item that is a few developmental iterations improved over the +80/+90 bulb "C" in the linked comparison. I keep them in stock for $43.18/pair. With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request. Important note: any of the bulbs claiming to produce "extra white" light (or super white, hyper white, platinum white, metal white, xenon white, etc) as its main promotional "benefit" is best avoided. It doesn't matter whose name is on the bulb -- Sylvania SilverStar/Ultra or ZxE, Philips BlueVision or CrystalVision, Wagner TruView, anything from PIAA or Hoen,, Nokya, Polarg, etc. -- all the same scam. They have a blue-tinted glass, which changes the light color a little, but blocks light that would reach the road if the glass weren't tinted, so they give you _less_ light than ordinary bulbs (not more). To get legal-minimum levels of light through the blue glass, the filament has to be driven very hard so these bulbs have a very short lifespan, and there's nothing about the tinted light that improves your ability to see -- the opposite is true (less light = less seeing, no matter about the tint). Sylvania got spanked (see http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?388252-Sylvania-taken-to-task-for-their-false-claims-of-headlamp-superiority ) to the tune of thirty million dollars(!) for false "upgrade" claims on their Silver Star bulbs -- and theirs are among the least-bad of an overall bad product category, so the math kind of does itself. *LED headlamps:* The "LED bulbs" now flooding the market, claiming to convert halogen headlamps to LED, are not a legitimate, safe, effective, or legal product. No matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims, these are a fraudulent scam. They are not capable of producing the right amounts of light, nor producing it in the right pattern for the lamp's optics to work. Same goes for "HID kits" in halogen-bulb headlamps or fog/auxiliary lamps (any kit, any lamp, any vehicle no matter whether it's a car, truck, motorcycle, etc.). They do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal. Legitimate LED headlamps do not use a replaceable light source ("LED bulb"). If you wish more detailed info on these so-called "conversions", please see https://jalopnik.com/why-most-led-headlight-upgrades-dont-really-work-an-ex-1843070472 and http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html . Nutshell version: this is not like trying out different bulbs in the kitchen or living room or garage, where all it has to do is light up in a way you find adequate and pleasing. Headlamps aren't just flood or spot lights; they are precision optical instruments (yes, even a cheap and minimal headlamp counts as a precision optical instrument) that have a complex, difficult job to do in terms of simultaneously putting light where it's needed, keeping it away from where it's harmful, and controlling the amounts of light at numerous locations within the beam to appropriate levels (too much light in certain areas is just as dangerous as not enough). Headlamps cannot just spray out a random blob of light, and that's what they do with anything other than the intended correct kind of light source. And there's also a mountain of unsafe junk in the form of trinkets claiming to be complete "LED headlamps", as well. But there's a number of engineered LED headlamps on the market -- they range in quality and performance from pathetic to excellent. The best of them all is the JW Speaker item in chrome https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S6TZSG/?tag=2402507-20 or in black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0784NV3FK/?tag=2402507-20 . These are *not* advisable if you do a lot of wintertime driving with heavy snow and slush; the LED headlamp lenses run cold so snow and ice build up on them instead of melting off like they do from a warm halogen lamp lens. There is now a heated-lens version of the JW Speaker lamp to address this issue; they, too, come in chrome: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0784PRXJM/?tag=2402507-20 or in black: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078C4WXTV/?tag=2402507-20 About the only other LED headlamps I'd point you at would be these (specific) Truck-Lites: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081S922ZC/?tag=2402507-20 (heated lens). You'll be shown a whackload of "Products like this" or "I bought these for way cheaper"—all complete junk, do not buy. Assuming your truck's wiring is in good shape, a relay harness isn't needed or beneficial with LED headlamps. *Lamp aim:* Lamp aim is by far the main thing that determines how well you can (or can't) see at night with any given set of lamps, so this is crucial: you will need to see to it that the lamps are aimed carefully and correctly; Koito halogen lamps per the "VOL" instructions; or JW Speaker LED lamps per "VOR", or heated Truck-Lite LEDs per "older US lamps" as described at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html . Whichever headlamp option you choose, result of this upgrade will be modern-car levels of headlamp performance: broad, even, bright white—not brownish or bluish—well-focused low and high beams instead of the dim, narrow tunnel of brownish light from the original sealed beams. Also total elimination of backscatter in rain/fog/snow. Modern cars have a range of headlamp performance; your headlamp selection determines how high in that range your upgrade will get you. *Fog lamps:* Even very good fog lamps (which do exist, but aren't very common) are of almost no use to most drivers in most conditions, but "most" doesn't mean "all"; there are certainly plenty of places where _legitimate_ fog lamps, installed and used thoughtfully, can be a big help. Please see http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html for thorough information about what fog lamps will/won't and can/can't do. _Daytime running lights:_ Daytime running lights—legitimate ones, configured appropriately for automatic operation—are good to have. They significantly reduce your risk of being in a crash during the daytime, and are required equipment in Canada, throughout Europe, and in a large and growing number of other countries throughout the world because they are a very cost-effective safety device (i.e., they work). You can easily enable them in your vehicle using a DRL-1 module ($59); see http://dastern.torque.net/Mods/DRL/DRL1.html for instructions and demonstration videos. This is the best way to put a daytime running light function on a vehicle not originally equipped (or which has had its headlamp-based DRLs disabled for installation of headlight relays). The module enables the steady-burning operation of both front directional signals as daytime running lights (except, of course, when you're signalling for a turn). They produce a light distribution with a wide view angle, are generally well located for DRL service at the outboard edges of the front of the vehicle, consume considerably less power than any headlamp-based DRL implementation, use light sources of generally much longer life than a headlight bulb, do not encourage improper nighttime use of lights, and do not require additional lighting devices to be added. A large variety of vehicles from a wide array of makers use this kind of DRL as original equipment. It is steady-lit operation of the bright amber turn signals (except when they are flashing to signal a turn) -- it is not steady operation of the dim parking lamps; parking lights are not bright enough and don't have the right view angles to serve the daytime running light function. Turn signal DRLs comply with US and Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards #108 and are approved in all states, provinces, and territories. _Other upgrades:_ Can safely make your front sidemarker lights 3× brighter for safer all-around visibility of the vehicle with direct-swap bulbs, $9.18/pair. Your turn signals are presently invisible from the side, but there is an easy modification you can make to the front side marker lights' hookup so that they do double-duty as side markers _and_ side turn signal flashers, see http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/markerflash/markerflash.html . This is a very good safety improvement, as your turn signals become visible to the side (cars in the next lane, bicyclists, pedestrians) instead of just front- or rear-on. It is also fully road-legal, and the brighter bulbs will mean your newly-activated side turn signal repeaters are clearly visible in bright daylight, too, not just after dark. With your two-wire side marker lights you have two options for how to do this, both described at the link. Use the logic module method (module kit $59) if you want the side markers always to flash in phase with the front and rear indicators, or use the cross-feed method (no module required, just a couple of wire connectors) if you don't mind opposite-phase flashing of the front side marker light when the parking lamps or headlamps are lit. Either way is legal throughout North America; elsewhere in the world, international rules do not permit opposite-phase flashing. When installing things like daytime running lights and sidemarker flashing, It's best not to use the fold-over-and-crunch "Scotchlok" type taps. Much better, more durably trouble-free result if you use Posi-Taps, http://www.allpar.com/reviews/other/posi-tap.html . I don't carry them, but if you'll get this assortment, you'll surely find uses for them (they're one of those products that you buy for a particular project, but then other uses for them keep popping up in front of you once you have them): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009RPDOAM/?tag=2402507-20 The main exterior signal lamps can safely be made 45% brighter with special high-efficiency bulbs available (only) through the Honda parts system. The single-filament variety with a single contact in the centre of the bottom of the bulb's base (replacing 1076, 1141, 1156, P21W, P25-1, and a few others—these go in your reversing lamps) is http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IFP9P4O/?tag=2402507-20 . The dual-filament variety with two contacts side-by-side on the bottom of the bulb's base (replacing 1034, 1157, 2057, P21/5W, P25-2, and a few others—these go in the brake lights and front turn signals) is http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFDIN0K/?tag=2402507-20 . These only come in clear; if you need an amber bulb because your front turn signal lenses are also clear/colourless, use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IY7TGQ/?tag=2402507-20 . Another easy safety pickup: put in a new-type turn signal flasher https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P4QLLL9/?tag=2402507-20 (2-prong like original; connect its ground wire conveniently). These have much lower internal resistance than the original type, for brighter turn signals. "Ew, no, I want to put LEDs in my brake lights and turn signals!" Welll…maybe and maybe not. Here's what to know about LED retrofit bulbs in vehicle signal lamps (brake lights, tail lights, parking lights, turn signals, etc). First, the quick nutshell version: -Answer to "Will it work?" is a whole lot more complicated than is commonly understood. -Fundamentally different kind of light source, so unlike with filament bulbs, physical fit doesn't guarantee optical compatibility/acceptable performance. -Giant mountain of unsafe junk on the market, all fraudulently hyped as an upgrade. -A few legitimate products that work OK in _some_ of the lamps they fit in; important to check the actual function carefully. -Optical compatibility isn't the only issue; there's also electrical compatibility and thermal concerns. Now here's the long, detailed version: Let's start with how signal lamps (parking lamps, turn signals, side marker lights, brake lights, tail lights, reversing lamps) have to work. It's a lot more complicated than just "Yep, that lights up and looks good to me". Please take a look at this post, which I wrote years ago, in re someone who was very ambitiously making his own LED taillights for an old Dodge Dart: https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/66-dart-led-prototype-working-for-now.169147/#post-1635365 This info applies no matter what kind of light source we're working with; I point you at it _not_ because I think you should go to the use (or doesn't only use) a reflector bowl. Instead, these lamps have Fresnel-type optics, the kind where the lens has a central magnifying area directly in line with the filament of the installed bulb, and spreader optics surrounding that magnifier. Often the magnifier is a round bullseye and the spreaders are a series of round prismatic rings surrounding the bullseye, but sometimes the magnifier is square or rectangular and the surrounding prisms are rectilinear. The Bullnose trucks use this kind of lamp for the front turn signals. If there's no light directly out the front of the LED bulb, there will be minimal to zero useful output from the lamp. Philips used to make some LED bulbs that did have significant frontward light, but they discontinued them and now they market two different product families, both of which are inferior to that first family. Which is unfortunate, but that's the world we live in. There are the thermal issues with LED bulbs. Unlike with previous light sources (light and heat coincident out the front of the lamp), an LED puts out light from its front side and heat from its back side. The light goes forward, the heat goes back. As the LED heats up, its light output drops (it's called "droop"), so each LED must have an adequate heat sink to carry the heat away from the emitter and prevent it heating up high enough to drop the output low enough to put the lamp's output below the minimum requirement. LED vehicle lamps (designed and engineered as such) have to pass tests for output maintenance with prolonged operation, because that's a real-world situation (stuck in traffic with foot on the brake, tail/parking lights operating for hours on end, etc). This is a challenging requirement for even legitimate LED lamps, and it's a really difficult challenge for such a thing as an LED bulb, because there's a very limited amount of space for any heat sinking, and all of it's going to be inside the lamp there with the heat-emitting LEDs—there's no way to use outside air to cool the LEDs unless you have a big honkin' rear housing on the LED bulb. There are some out there like this, and they create physical-fit problems (not enough room behind the lamp for the big honkin' housing) and other issues related to improper fit in the bulb hole. Finally, there's another matter that affects the compatibility of LED bulbs with lamps designed to use filament bulbs: most white LED bulbs are high-CCT ("cold white"), like 5000K, 6000K, or higher. That's cold/blue-white light. These white LEDs produce very little red light. Put such an LED behind a red lens, and you get a dim, muddy, pinkish-brown light that's way outside the boundaries of what's allowable as red. This is a bad idea, as we're talking about lights that are supposed to immediately convey the vehicle's position/direction of travel and that it's decelerating. Messing with their colour, intensity, and light distribution makes them unable to do their job keeping you from getting hit. If you want to try LED bulbs in the brake lights, you can try http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A77TV4Q/?tag=2402507-20 — these are the only ones worth trying. That "try" language is deliberate; I repeat myself: you'll need to carefully assess the performance of these bulbs in your particular lamps by comparing them side-by-side with the original incandescents as reasonably well described at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?452592-How-to-Evaluate-Safety-of-LED-Bulb-Retrofits-in-Brake-Signal-Marker-Lights (and that new-type turn signal flasher linked above is _mandatory_ with LED bulbs). *For items with a price quote in this email:* If an item in this email has a price quoted, that's an item I sell myself. To buy any of these, please use the instructions at the end of this email. *For items I've linked in this email:* Any item with a link instead of a price quote, I don't sell myself (usually because no cost-effective pipeline); kindly please order those items via the links I provide. *How To Order:* _I need your phone number for the shipping documents. Please send me your phone number with your payment._ My credit card processing provider is a small business working hard to do right by their employees, so I'm trying to give them as much biz as possible vs. PayPal, but the choice is yours. Orders may be sent via e-mail. You may also voicemail or fax your order to my secure toll-free recorded order line on 1-866-861-8668. All items ship from Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Georgia, USA. We use the Postal Service or UPS for most shipments within the US; occasionally FedEx. We use the Postal Service for shipments outside the US, including Canada. If you wish other shipping arrangements, please ask and I'll do my best to accommodate you. Please also state whether your package may be left at your doorstep if you are not available to accept and sign for it in person, though be advised PayPal and most credit card processors (including mine) require signed delivery for shipments over a certain value; waiving the signature waives all buyer and seller protection for the transaction. *Here's what I need to know from you:* - What items you wish to purchase, - What vehicle(s) the parts are to be installed on, - The address where you want the items shipped -- if you pay by PayPal, I must ship to the address that comes with your payment, so please double-check to make sure you've selected the correct address when you pay the PayPal invoice. If you find you've made an error on that, let me know ASAP so I can cancel the payment and we can do it again with the correct address. - Your telephone number - Any special shipping instructions (2nd-day, next-day, specific carrier, require signature, etc) *Payment Methods:* _Credit Card:_ I accept Visa, Mastercard, Discover, and American Express cards. Orders are processed securely -- my card processing services are provided by Gravity Payments, based in the United States, and customer card info is never retained after processing your order. Here's what I need to process a credit card order: -Card number -Expiry date -CVV code (last group of 3 or 4 digits on back of card) -Your name as it appears on the card -Billing address -Phone number _PayPal:_ Once you tell me what you'd like to order and where I'll be sending it, I will generate and send you a PayPal invoice from which to pay. Please don't attempt to pay by PayPal until you have received a PayPal invoice for your order. The invoice allows both you and me to easily keep track of the order. I look forward to receiving and filling your order. Cheers and drive safely, Daniel Stern (he - him - his) Lots of great info there, I will have to read again later before ordering some of those items! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 26, 2021 Author Share Posted October 26, 2021 Lots of great info there, I will have to read again later before ordering some of those items! Yes, there is a TON of info in there! Good reading and re-reading. I've scanned it, read it, and am about to re-read it. I'm especially interested in the side marker lamps 3x brighter and make them work in conjunction with the turn signals. If I'm going to be pulling the headlight doors to put in new headlights I might as well do that at the same time. And, put brighter bulbs in the turn signals. And maybe make them DRL's. But in that email Daniel said "With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request." So I asked him to explain that, and his response makes a lot of sense: Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results . Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-wattage bulb (bulb "D") is not as good as with the high-luminance standard-wattage bulb (bulb "C"). As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of the filament the poorer the beam focus. Effective seeing distance plummets. At the same time, foreground light goes to nuclear levels, which does two things at the same time: 1) It fools you into thinking you've got "excellent" lighting. We humans are very poor subjective judges of our visual performance; it's very easy to create situations in which we think/feel we can see much better (or much worse) than we actually can. 2) It absolutely kills your distance vision. The brightly-lit foreground causes your pupils to constrict, with the result that you can meaningfully see all the irrelevant stuff going on within 50 feet of the car, and beyond that, you're effectively blind. And using massive overwattage low beams in a truck/van/SUV with headlamps mounted higher than they are in a passenger car means you either produce extremely blinding glare for other road users (some of whom will write you tickets for it), or you tip down the aim so far that your seeing range is sharply geometrically limited. Either way, you lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Yes, there is a TON of info in there! Good reading and re-reading. I've scanned it, read it, and am about to re-read it. I'm especially interested in the side marker lamps 3x brighter and make them work in conjunction with the turn signals. If I'm going to be pulling the headlight doors to put in new headlights I might as well do that at the same time. And, put brighter bulbs in the turn signals. And maybe make them DRL's. http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/thinking-26_orig.jpg But in that email Daniel said "With relays in the system it's tempting to grab for big wattage numbers (100/90, etc), but for a good collection of sturdy reasons it's usually counterproductive at best; more info on request." So I asked him to explain that, and his response makes a lot of sense: Please see bulb test results posted by my colleague Virgil at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?392498-Interesting-headlight-bulb-test-results . Note the performance difference, especially on low beam, between the standard bulb (bulb "A") and the high-wattage bulb (bulb "D") is not as good as with the high-luminance standard-wattage bulb (bulb "C"). As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of the filament the poorer the beam focus. Effective seeing distance plummets. At the same time, foreground light goes to nuclear levels, which does two things at the same time: 1) It fools you into thinking you've got "excellent" lighting. We humans are very poor subjective judges of our visual performance; it's very easy to create situations in which we think/feel we can see much better (or much worse) than we actually can. 2) It absolutely kills your distance vision. The brightly-lit foreground causes your pupils to constrict, with the result that you can meaningfully see all the irrelevant stuff going on within 50 feet of the car, and beyond that, you're effectively blind. And using massive overwattage low beams in a truck/van/SUV with headlamps mounted higher than they are in a passenger car means you either produce extremely blinding glare for other road users (some of whom will write you tickets for it), or you tip down the aim so far that your seeing range is sharply geometrically limited. Either way, you lose. For LED auxiliary bulbs below is what I use with great success. For my '78 Mercury the side light that lights up with the turn signal to illuminate around dark corners is a 1156 bulb. When I fixed the system to functional I used a 90w 1156 LED projector bulb that looks just like the one below. When I put the turn signal on it will actually illuminate my whole front yard and the neighbors front yard and side of their house. With a traditional 1156 bulb it lit half my front yard up. For the T10 wedge bulbs I typically use the 5 smd bulb as show below I also have some 20 smd bulbs in the T10 wedge base as well as below. Problem is you have to have some room, using one of these T10 wedge bulbs in amber on the fender side marker light will result in a super bright hot spot in the middle that appears white. Its a big reason why I only use LED bulbs on the interior. Another reason is you have to get a projector bulb like the one I first posted that is pushing 90W if you want an NOS flasher to function properly other wise the load will be too low and will have a weird flash pattern if you are lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 For LED auxiliary bulbs below is what I use with great success. For my '78 Mercury the side light that lights up with the turn signal to illuminate around dark corners is a 1156 bulb. When I fixed the system to functional I used a 90w 1156 LED projector bulb that looks just like the one below. When I put the turn signal on it will actually illuminate my whole front yard and the neighbors front yard and side of their house. With a traditional 1156 bulb it lit half my front yard up. For the T10 wedge bulbs I typically use the 5 smd bulb as show below I also have some 20 smd bulbs in the T10 wedge base as well as below. Problem is you have to have some room, using one of these T10 wedge bulbs in amber on the fender side marker light will result in a super bright hot spot in the middle that appears white. Its a big reason why I only use LED bulbs on the interior. Another reason is you have to get a projector bulb like the one I first posted that is pushing 90W if you want an NOS flasher to function properly other wise the load will be too low and will have a weird flash pattern if you are lucky. Thanks, Rusty. But could you provide some links? The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing. So if you know what works we need to document it. And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller. Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load. I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's. As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Thanks, Rusty. But could you provide some links? The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing. So if you know what works we need to document it. And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller. Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load. I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's. As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine. I can provide some links but they might not be to the exact ones I bought as I bulked up and ebay doesnt go back far enough on purchases to get the exact vendors but most of them were vendors from China as I was able to buy them in 50 to 100 piece packs while the ones sold from mostly california in 2 to 10 packs are the same chinese bulbs that they get the bulk packs and break them down. But for the T10 I pick up ones like this in the bulk pack. Blue (avoid ice blue) https://www.ebay.com/itm/283617810756?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4208f05944:g:CNYAAOSwHRVdbzE9&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSwcmzw5CLtzTE60FqHcnq2Oz1d0WAmyDSU6APbw4YYAM4%252FHdTg7NXnZ65P7TfDpqLtVhc6ChZudmP%252FPHIem5K%252Fz8yQZvdaXR5U0jWLTJH1r2nqY5aBCGOsnBpC6Obp83BiOygSTBrtGWB3ecUB4%252BB9mdrDoHxShDHRlen7Zj%252FbJeomIobvDvQLHo2h2zU3cZG1wJdMXgiIZn5TLLaczaS2KM2RcvGN6nwSjIeXPl4u0Mh8s6DwuCHlIyYEzofhNDTTre3OTnhfZ%252FEmeQMOIECP6la8qjrnw1VZwPKVrYnsGgFgiZmVN9rIQPN31ZIwm5hh%252FjN5CXRiS7S36unBWnbn2aa8FjaDaQFj9WJQUcLV51xlzOPIqJw0JCPDrj24lhDvTU6nMv9V5V%252B6PYUxA7TmfRMhC3HMBZvmJ4omUDtu76pd2s%252BfaScxEaqTjZjQ1bfHaApTOW11hhmwNZyiKQ7ZXjRwdpO%252FSODOTZEOMLbPP%252Basue%252Bm7Q%252FUkereo%252B8zRBME2CLv5U0TJluC65NsoiXAwGLUhABgWyJqYkGDUczCgRyyi7CZBDEciHjHnzzAq3zcRtUH2OsdnVaMiGk%252BPT3iY213gViwYtsj8deIEZRCvsQSIJW7lyUBg7d1OpK1HFSjCnaSSca3tESxYtaqa%252F4nJACaAxQVODSkEREd45u40uUHCeX5RO4OO3wwsa1wIzfuVQSzVrSUhtPdJ58UmCG%252B%252Fy3LirnHaOVwFptPps7D3YRCgYAp977JMCpHaPjd3WmPksgjbTj6kZAcNieiEggFEzNivWwb0uuhEcFj1%252FRXUaZGqdD5dZUdM1lscgnV1KDWOaMaJY3g7RtiwvSx0BOGQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMipD5_pdf Amber https://www.ebay.com/itm/192914634529?hash=item2cea9bb721:g:rIUAAOSwiTRc2OE6 Red https://www.ebay.com/itm/324845555471?fits=Model%3A5&hash=item4ba24dcf0f:g:NMYAAOSw2KxhYSPO Green https://www.ebay.com/itm/403196707736?hash=item5de0658398:g:Oh8AAOSw8YxhU-XO Warm White https://www.ebay.com/itm/194342323179?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2d3fb483eb:g:TdcAAOSwm8VhNrKr&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSd3M8ngECaRA0SmyU4KT%252Fnlk8GWnO4k5Y4oVxZkIEL5GUiE932K8TiP6%252Fu%252B58rTaTfSzNK3gRt3iBWNOoGS8DVx%252BrtIWgUA6RVuAuW4XpngfMSPzg6bd5q0OY3UNpWA8QfkN6MLZhXOCQaDy%252B7gSWPw%252BuTqfRnbreYgnNbt%252B3rOgs0A%252BGzJZlDCp2AeJjUXLCXqvVGB9vu6LWmu3sZZ9utGPcnfS2bVtDMaBXZy9xtGjrsDlmy0GuXxhQIR7PZ80r%252Fg2euJ4I5j3mEaQY40kimH1S96%252BEMv32%252FSm4JQdFjQjbuYk33rpwMbNJxFoZrOVQL783orrkqEJRbN7qDwmlhuIfmk8k1gpciN6YZnomRE6B7SSYT8o50oLZXPFlD%252F3je9WduYmtE4fxGMMIjf8Inr%252BbgNTlAlYXgtHdwSXCqypvS2mfVKMIY%252FJZIlnSc5mDDu7fVjBBKdDR8yCe75DyIZ4s%252BMsEXBn0QAQpcUpOXOeLAAnO7ASsfwxNeVCp9%252FeF8brE80F7iSi1Qb%252FGqxw%252F9H5TRouyIhtBg4UF95nr44lnEmj0Q4p%252FcQQnT%252BJERK0p%252FU9XbYQwqf3b1KDP%252BezCT8YLm0iUPgtggwJ4tOTd%252BW7hkmihwmhcuN1jN9CZPNAll%252FRFGrPcjOMimsIim%252BekZrIgVP9%252FsqzJAHrGcKFbmrhqQ7ouejJvbyWzrXo9NtcyERjns7XN97CR7boQOqDr53HSg0pAjJVl6Y4GLQtVEuwRf5IT8rSkbnvzUhSAOoLviFp3Cuxdo5CmXUvvq9X%252Boq54dTINZI91ud84TaPDYzffbAdUkJIZMASnvQyOCi91AS8tgxcfwWPAojw6qrZj4pu6QvKQtWY1j%252BHJn1axfhc%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMksiX_5df White https://www.ebay.com/itm/233464157227?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item365b8c542b:g:6BAAAOSwWl5eHCgO&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSRAQR8FABHjfpFoyRlXhWmca10VglFEE3HNeGNTwmJ4ugLDJ%252FQVgr%252Bq%252BIhh2WlYpcgvfa1gQts2d5GLL2oe46vKQstpxXSMkZ1qVlxODaJe0Ro4Sh1iQW42R3DI8PJPbFTCvhwRqTLiRM1PJUt8jA5RmWdNZ7eH%252B3rsQeFrQdFwPHNLPDXlsRxxJXuG2NTWVINvlvAu2D%252FObmc3Mh3u6NJyoCG14HBhGewB6MiKh1arzWG4CkRBWMBZ6mWRUr%252BjUK66uxVajMERXz%252BeCTA3XQMXiVbD1xVQQ6fZFBgrztduj9fuUs6x7s%252FMecZaUtIsfnGpdUfJf2mQX5kklAD8hifMGt8R9oVEn%252F9Nwqc5fYKLStWTNli%252BPUaCpTNF8PGxzyFeC%252BKuLq%252FsC%252F7FYm6bOtpRjwhh7HCjQEGXk82q3DxE4Lmy5kSUjyVuT45k%252B2Alhd%252BBbIN7kNCrYe2JaQmOBZ1JwrxhSRY0BM%252FgoAL1qI%252FgJo6DkBIvA3Khj1mNCgyduFd3BfeBvccFu3R%252BSVgUm6KJWB2DztQO7jy%252F4CzSkoLFVxxVWOs%252FQ29Cdam4%252BTfC%252F9USY38E%252FxKZGuAzLA0c9i5XWj6y98ZLfoc0xVJ5Ul7h4jeqFu%252F4Aps%252F%252FvywaIILUQOM%252BNYqiittEZQ%252FAigGWUCYlRHBVaLspez%252Fz4XsVTDRfyR9iRmwxekBVUavM%252BhD17sBP3N%252FrLC4qhKYclv%252FcYEGmUYDE3Ux%252FBkPYoTsygmDIvHkEnKKlEM%252F%252BczEreU4IDijl5lFfZvQPQBEJ%252BRBv3%252Fc%252F5SylafMDzIW3uHKAnwVfCuoMfDo7TB0sSzbHH2AEdhg5VdPoraSae%252BnuG%252FC58fw%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMivyZ_5df For the 1156 projector bulb Red https://www.ebay.com/itm/232312527629?hash=item3616e7db0d:g:0yEAAOSwZcxdlNWj Amber (seems they dont have the old style anymore this I think is the new style still 80W) https://www.ebay.com/itm/282612810097?hash=item41cd094171:g:~uYAAOSwehVaj7mX White https://www.ebay.com/itm/274901922035?hash=item40016e70f3:g:c0MAAOSwo8hTp7z2 Then for 1157 bulbs for turn signals and brake lights Red https://www.ebay.com/itm/174710519562?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item28ad8ef70a:g:-MgAAOSwXW9gYXOQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSDAeS9EQtjPGVfKXTxF0%252Bjg4GqXdZ2lk%252FeTRbYXn2y2RvqgPqeL2pQsSvpniYSce5cHR67LFXc1WHnNgbQWhIJ1MNhQyMhvylXIxb0MG599LUu2ySRM8m5Ql5%252FSnZpDbMILB24eD0dkPjB9o3slLic8TARXbjQOWyIP3I%252Bj00Q%252B0qVGzIjQh0Bw8pQN4OQkftTelEM%252Bzq6e%252B9t3AT7IybNu9jBp%252FEnAtbmU%252BcVLhQa97p28IS5WcjWWg%252FpZmecCvo1i7Yoxo2PRPgm9m3NgxSHVB%252Br1r6t2lIwqFz10Q9CkixPJITZGnjrznuzPmTL0B4L1F%252BO0opTzsDQp1ICCQA07mfqfm2w28zfATAeaso8fAWyH5AJN3CePKljGOZ1vlRQ4EcPjdeqU0M5RBnmmtqNMF4Ss3arAlSjTM4hh7EqYssWMlVVu8r%252BqlABBFVj41dbprJVRlMXU1vZykuo9Tj43Tv0RbZjyrZ%252BdZkak911g1WQm8I%252BYBJXtKRQK8EFruBtYtOEPCHy4Zi%252B%252FA2NuhRDWk1cZ9LT9EsPczYc3J5BHUdikHRrtAzCBW3%252BCtK0IVAXuCIhri8CKcIXOO9W%252FsEfBa8nuEU6QI%252FqjbGCO%252F6In8PRaFL1E80EyocTCG7%252Brllupg%252BaJ9oahkZXROk2luV2hW432PsbH8LlZ%252F3nrnzm8K7v%252BLZICEE6xo%252FVkj4Bi4c8pxBqu%252FMFMT%252Fq30rKFS%252BBVLdjTjmbDy3ONSJnh4s5F1qqN%252BCld%252FhVnKF6JhvBeAVc5hBp9tjh97e%252FCOkVazbmBKNmsU0CNFw%252FI9rcf69FMNEM7OYNe2Iq9i9s5lfvgveN5FwFbAVcoUe%252FMc8uUUj9vHU5Y0vSY4%252FhJM%252FYDBM4FI%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM9p3B_5df Amber (no listings online for this model) If you are going to run back up lights in LED these are in my LED bulb box and I would use them in various applications based off how much room I have for the bulb. 1156 13-smd super white https://www.ebay.com/itm/333246570013?epid=28034772841&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4d970b1e1d:g:QtsAAOSwPzZfH6oD&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSprd4IgPv6LBzlteBBg9Pe7fBudMHwkTbmvQumRdK4sngdEFMRJZ22OPa06WJbySzRXhnNJkAx3jn2nj69ka1%252F8UDSfJyy%252Fs4FAEUFDSPFQcEM2ZJWb9SBjZ8psFuGWAAUrC0%252BRIt%252Bj9d2RGBqRFQs%252FgSeex8Akc8BPjUOepexCNvPgP9w29TJRSU8ARDqtSB44GZcUP90%252BHGtJKS9DkxJ7jX30fglU%252FXgqz9I%252FysUWU%252BQwRc5tS4RNW4A4Pa0CXP1%252BLH%252Fv3fGTOgCxBYJ02lgFGfo%252BJFYGm0IixyDjsssomNJVAYCJi2zcJ5weFDLWA6%252FO8c%252BvltuG3iowd1pecMZk6N3PMAFeUMIYRKArdwygIkP4wOjSZJXbkzyVUwD2Ktykjw8H1jBlljtfBXUfBU4SGXB2GJ3EZf3BDHin8i4%252BfXak%252FbMmiP9bbqZ6gtuzyG5LGA5TrPjn9TjBj9h56D3qoVKi27TtwPtL3XH2aAkYyeGqTtcYi2YVcURdQUgP8Nmw028Ki3Q26a00tw3t9rfa2%252FHwREpcIinRynCIJ0wDUpkA3wRWSgeilyfnRuGhMRhxCXIVtn3XBU1NqmMUpyaINtf%252FFfbU5rCQ6Z5HL47TaxFZsp9%252FmBXnI3y3iEgnm%252FpeFNtJ97E%252FeOvLJMV93BURCASyQQ6wOZcCtaesoXqGGSEfJYtwdoZwSWWwH58PHod6AfNP1RhJkTHovGxQcJ62J6ZidReqHmevEPttBSF7WymfdqwHYEVg2IfBoivTJxk6hKPGVFqpMbeMyarjxFRX%252FJfGS1z0SsCUHqpe3gLWZhQEBy8hEmBonQkFKron6l6VzdXaYpOhJHlKG6TiM65g%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMmtzG_5df 1156 64-smd super white https://www.ebay.com/itm/193636612369?epid=4042886641&hash=item2d15a43911:g:PXcAAOSwUkVgZHCk 1156 22-smd super white https://www.ebay.com/itm/402659853645?hash=item5dc065c54d:g:n4wAAOSwLjpgDo8Q The last one I use in very limited space for back up lights, these would be a last resort as they have more of a spot light effect than bouncing light around the housing providing a more even lighting. 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Gary Lewis Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 Thanks, Rusty. But could you provide some links? The reason is that there are a zillion different LED bulbs and, as Daniel said, it is a bit of trial and error to find which ones work well in what housing. So if you know what works we need to document it. And, by the way, I'll caution about using LED bulbs in the brake/tail housing if you have a Tekonsha P3 brake controller. Apparently that controller, and maybe plenty of others, expect the brake light bulb to be a significant resistance load. I couldn't get the controller to work correctly and finally traced it to the LED's. As soon as I went back to incandescent bulbs the controller worked fine. I can provide some links but they might not be to the exact ones I bought as I bulked up and ebay doesnt go back far enough on purchases to get the exact vendors but most of them were vendors from China as I was able to buy them in 50 to 100 piece packs while the ones sold from mostly california in 2 to 10 packs are the same chinese bulbs that they get the bulk packs and break them down. But for the T10 I pick up ones like this in the bulk pack. Blue (avoid ice blue) https://www.ebay.com/itm/283617810756?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4208f05944:g:CNYAAOSwHRVdbzE9&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSwcmzw5CLtzTE60FqHcnq2Oz1d0WAmyDSU6APbw4YYAM4%252FHdTg7NXnZ65P7TfDpqLtVhc6ChZudmP%252FPHIem5K%252Fz8yQZvdaXR5U0jWLTJH1r2nqY5aBCGOsnBpC6Obp83BiOygSTBrtGWB3ecUB4%252BB9mdrDoHxShDHRlen7Zj%252FbJeomIobvDvQLHo2h2zU3cZG1wJdMXgiIZn5TLLaczaS2KM2RcvGN6nwSjIeXPl4u0Mh8s6DwuCHlIyYEzofhNDTTre3OTnhfZ%252FEmeQMOIECP6la8qjrnw1VZwPKVrYnsGgFgiZmVN9rIQPN31ZIwm5hh%252FjN5CXRiS7S36unBWnbn2aa8FjaDaQFj9WJQUcLV51xlzOPIqJw0JCPDrj24lhDvTU6nMv9V5V%252B6PYUxA7TmfRMhC3HMBZvmJ4omUDtu76pd2s%252BfaScxEaqTjZjQ1bfHaApTOW11hhmwNZyiKQ7ZXjRwdpO%252FSODOTZEOMLbPP%252Basue%252Bm7Q%252FUkereo%252B8zRBME2CLv5U0TJluC65NsoiXAwGLUhABgWyJqYkGDUczCgRyyi7CZBDEciHjHnzzAq3zcRtUH2OsdnVaMiGk%252BPT3iY213gViwYtsj8deIEZRCvsQSIJW7lyUBg7d1OpK1HFSjCnaSSca3tESxYtaqa%252F4nJACaAxQVODSkEREd45u40uUHCeX5RO4OO3wwsa1wIzfuVQSzVrSUhtPdJ58UmCG%252B%252Fy3LirnHaOVwFptPps7D3YRCgYAp977JMCpHaPjd3WmPksgjbTj6kZAcNieiEggFEzNivWwb0uuhEcFj1%252FRXUaZGqdD5dZUdM1lscgnV1KDWOaMaJY3g7RtiwvSx0BOGQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMipD5_pdf Amber https://www.ebay.com/itm/192914634529?hash=item2cea9bb721:g:rIUAAOSwiTRc2OE6 Red https://www.ebay.com/itm/324845555471?fits=Model%3A5&hash=item4ba24dcf0f:g:NMYAAOSw2KxhYSPO Green https://www.ebay.com/itm/403196707736?hash=item5de0658398:g:Oh8AAOSw8YxhU-XO Warm White https://www.ebay.com/itm/194342323179?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2d3fb483eb:g:TdcAAOSwm8VhNrKr&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSd3M8ngECaRA0SmyU4KT%252Fnlk8GWnO4k5Y4oVxZkIEL5GUiE932K8TiP6%252Fu%252B58rTaTfSzNK3gRt3iBWNOoGS8DVx%252BrtIWgUA6RVuAuW4XpngfMSPzg6bd5q0OY3UNpWA8QfkN6MLZhXOCQaDy%252B7gSWPw%252BuTqfRnbreYgnNbt%252B3rOgs0A%252BGzJZlDCp2AeJjUXLCXqvVGB9vu6LWmu3sZZ9utGPcnfS2bVtDMaBXZy9xtGjrsDlmy0GuXxhQIR7PZ80r%252Fg2euJ4I5j3mEaQY40kimH1S96%252BEMv32%252FSm4JQdFjQjbuYk33rpwMbNJxFoZrOVQL783orrkqEJRbN7qDwmlhuIfmk8k1gpciN6YZnomRE6B7SSYT8o50oLZXPFlD%252F3je9WduYmtE4fxGMMIjf8Inr%252BbgNTlAlYXgtHdwSXCqypvS2mfVKMIY%252FJZIlnSc5mDDu7fVjBBKdDR8yCe75DyIZ4s%252BMsEXBn0QAQpcUpOXOeLAAnO7ASsfwxNeVCp9%252FeF8brE80F7iSi1Qb%252FGqxw%252F9H5TRouyIhtBg4UF95nr44lnEmj0Q4p%252FcQQnT%252BJERK0p%252FU9XbYQwqf3b1KDP%252BezCT8YLm0iUPgtggwJ4tOTd%252BW7hkmihwmhcuN1jN9CZPNAll%252FRFGrPcjOMimsIim%252BekZrIgVP9%252FsqzJAHrGcKFbmrhqQ7ouejJvbyWzrXo9NtcyERjns7XN97CR7boQOqDr53HSg0pAjJVl6Y4GLQtVEuwRf5IT8rSkbnvzUhSAOoLviFp3Cuxdo5CmXUvvq9X%252Boq54dTINZI91ud84TaPDYzffbAdUkJIZMASnvQyOCi91AS8tgxcfwWPAojw6qrZj4pu6QvKQtWY1j%252BHJn1axfhc%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMksiX_5df White https://www.ebay.com/itm/233464157227?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item365b8c542b:g:6BAAAOSwWl5eHCgO&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSRAQR8FABHjfpFoyRlXhWmca10VglFEE3HNeGNTwmJ4ugLDJ%252FQVgr%252Bq%252BIhh2WlYpcgvfa1gQts2d5GLL2oe46vKQstpxXSMkZ1qVlxODaJe0Ro4Sh1iQW42R3DI8PJPbFTCvhwRqTLiRM1PJUt8jA5RmWdNZ7eH%252B3rsQeFrQdFwPHNLPDXlsRxxJXuG2NTWVINvlvAu2D%252FObmc3Mh3u6NJyoCG14HBhGewB6MiKh1arzWG4CkRBWMBZ6mWRUr%252BjUK66uxVajMERXz%252BeCTA3XQMXiVbD1xVQQ6fZFBgrztduj9fuUs6x7s%252FMecZaUtIsfnGpdUfJf2mQX5kklAD8hifMGt8R9oVEn%252F9Nwqc5fYKLStWTNli%252BPUaCpTNF8PGxzyFeC%252BKuLq%252FsC%252F7FYm6bOtpRjwhh7HCjQEGXk82q3DxE4Lmy5kSUjyVuT45k%252B2Alhd%252BBbIN7kNCrYe2JaQmOBZ1JwrxhSRY0BM%252FgoAL1qI%252FgJo6DkBIvA3Khj1mNCgyduFd3BfeBvccFu3R%252BSVgUm6KJWB2DztQO7jy%252F4CzSkoLFVxxVWOs%252FQ29Cdam4%252BTfC%252F9USY38E%252FxKZGuAzLA0c9i5XWj6y98ZLfoc0xVJ5Ul7h4jeqFu%252F4Aps%252F%252FvywaIILUQOM%252BNYqiittEZQ%252FAigGWUCYlRHBVaLspez%252Fz4XsVTDRfyR9iRmwxekBVUavM%252BhD17sBP3N%252FrLC4qhKYclv%252FcYEGmUYDE3Ux%252FBkPYoTsygmDIvHkEnKKlEM%252F%252BczEreU4IDijl5lFfZvQPQBEJ%252BRBv3%252Fc%252F5SylafMDzIW3uHKAnwVfCuoMfDo7TB0sSzbHH2AEdhg5VdPoraSae%252BnuG%252FC58fw%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMivyZ_5df For the 1156 projector bulb Red https://www.ebay.com/itm/232312527629?hash=item3616e7db0d:g:0yEAAOSwZcxdlNWj Amber (seems they dont have the old style anymore this I think is the new style still 80W) https://www.ebay.com/itm/282612810097?hash=item41cd094171:g:~uYAAOSwehVaj7mX White https://www.ebay.com/itm/274901922035?hash=item40016e70f3:g:c0MAAOSwo8hTp7z2 Then for 1157 bulbs for turn signals and brake lights Red https://www.ebay.com/itm/174710519562?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item28ad8ef70a:g:-MgAAOSwXW9gYXOQ&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACsPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSDAeS9EQtjPGVfKXTxF0%252Bjg4GqXdZ2lk%252FeTRbYXn2y2RvqgPqeL2pQsSvpniYSce5cHR67LFXc1WHnNgbQWhIJ1MNhQyMhvylXIxb0MG599LUu2ySRM8m5Ql5%252FSnZpDbMILB24eD0dkPjB9o3slLic8TARXbjQOWyIP3I%252Bj00Q%252B0qVGzIjQh0Bw8pQN4OQkftTelEM%252Bzq6e%252B9t3AT7IybNu9jBp%252FEnAtbmU%252BcVLhQa97p28IS5WcjWWg%252FpZmecCvo1i7Yoxo2PRPgm9m3NgxSHVB%252Br1r6t2lIwqFz10Q9CkixPJITZGnjrznuzPmTL0B4L1F%252BO0opTzsDQp1ICCQA07mfqfm2w28zfATAeaso8fAWyH5AJN3CePKljGOZ1vlRQ4EcPjdeqU0M5RBnmmtqNMF4Ss3arAlSjTM4hh7EqYssWMlVVu8r%252BqlABBFVj41dbprJVRlMXU1vZykuo9Tj43Tv0RbZjyrZ%252BdZkak911g1WQm8I%252BYBJXtKRQK8EFruBtYtOEPCHy4Zi%252B%252FA2NuhRDWk1cZ9LT9EsPczYc3J5BHUdikHRrtAzCBW3%252BCtK0IVAXuCIhri8CKcIXOO9W%252FsEfBa8nuEU6QI%252FqjbGCO%252F6In8PRaFL1E80EyocTCG7%252Brllupg%252BaJ9oahkZXROk2luV2hW432PsbH8LlZ%252F3nrnzm8K7v%252BLZICEE6xo%252FVkj4Bi4c8pxBqu%252FMFMT%252Fq30rKFS%252BBVLdjTjmbDy3ONSJnh4s5F1qqN%252BCld%252FhVnKF6JhvBeAVc5hBp9tjh97e%252FCOkVazbmBKNmsU0CNFw%252FI9rcf69FMNEM7OYNe2Iq9i9s5lfvgveN5FwFbAVcoUe%252FMc8uUUj9vHU5Y0vSY4%252FhJM%252FYDBM4FI%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM9p3B_5df Amber (no listings online for this model) If you are going to run back up lights in LED these are in my LED bulb box and I would use them in various applications based off how much room I have for the bulb. 1156 13-smd super white https://www.ebay.com/itm/333246570013?epid=28034772841&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4d970b1e1d:g:QtsAAOSwPzZfH6oD&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSprd4IgPv6LBzlteBBg9Pe7fBudMHwkTbmvQumRdK4sngdEFMRJZ22OPa06WJbySzRXhnNJkAx3jn2nj69ka1%252F8UDSfJyy%252Fs4FAEUFDSPFQcEM2ZJWb9SBjZ8psFuGWAAUrC0%252BRIt%252Bj9d2RGBqRFQs%252FgSeex8Akc8BPjUOepexCNvPgP9w29TJRSU8ARDqtSB44GZcUP90%252BHGtJKS9DkxJ7jX30fglU%252FXgqz9I%252FysUWU%252BQwRc5tS4RNW4A4Pa0CXP1%252BLH%252Fv3fGTOgCxBYJ02lgFGfo%252BJFYGm0IixyDjsssomNJVAYCJi2zcJ5weFDLWA6%252FO8c%252BvltuG3iowd1pecMZk6N3PMAFeUMIYRKArdwygIkP4wOjSZJXbkzyVUwD2Ktykjw8H1jBlljtfBXUfBU4SGXB2GJ3EZf3BDHin8i4%252BfXak%252FbMmiP9bbqZ6gtuzyG5LGA5TrPjn9TjBj9h56D3qoVKi27TtwPtL3XH2aAkYyeGqTtcYi2YVcURdQUgP8Nmw028Ki3Q26a00tw3t9rfa2%252FHwREpcIinRynCIJ0wDUpkA3wRWSgeilyfnRuGhMRhxCXIVtn3XBU1NqmMUpyaINtf%252FFfbU5rCQ6Z5HL47TaxFZsp9%252FmBXnI3y3iEgnm%252FpeFNtJ97E%252FeOvLJMV93BURCASyQQ6wOZcCtaesoXqGGSEfJYtwdoZwSWWwH58PHod6AfNP1RhJkTHovGxQcJ62J6ZidReqHmevEPttBSF7WymfdqwHYEVg2IfBoivTJxk6hKPGVFqpMbeMyarjxFRX%252FJfGS1z0SsCUHqpe3gLWZhQEBy8hEmBonQkFKron6l6VzdXaYpOhJHlKG6TiM65g%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMmtzG_5df 1156 64-smd super white https://www.ebay.com/itm/193636612369?epid=4042886641&hash=item2d15a43911:g:PXcAAOSwUkVgZHCk 1156 22-smd super white https://www.ebay.com/itm/402659853645?hash=item5dc065c54d:g:n4wAAOSwLjpgDo8Q The last one I use in very limited space for back up lights, these would be a last resort as they have more of a spot light effect than bouncing light around the housing providing a more even lighting. Thanks, Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 Thanks, Rusty. Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year. Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern. Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series? I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing. And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available. Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights. And my research found that almost everyone loved them. Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums. Therein Virgil said: "I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year. Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern. Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series? I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing. And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available. Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights. And my research found that almost everyone loved them. Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums. Therein Virgil said: "I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how." Yep thats why I never posted on here when the Retrobright LED bulbs came out by Holley. A) They are insanely expensive for what you are getting. For our trucks the 5"x7" they are $199.95/ea for the Modern white, Classic White, and Yellow. Thats $400 for lights for our trucks, for something like my '78 Mercury that has four bulbs thats $800. B) There were no real test done on them which makes them very questionable to me. If there is no testing done that is provided and you cant really find legit comparisons odds are they are no good. It goes back to the K.C. LED Day Lighters, they claim those two tiny LED bulbs facing the reflector provides more light that is properly focused than a 100w Halogen bulb. I do not believe that and no where online can you find anything by official sources making a proper comparison, just a bunch of "these are cutting edge technology that is far superior than halogen bulbs". In the end the concept is a great one, its just like for the restoration market it would be cool if someone would make concours bulbs that are LED for improved lighting but they look no different than the original bulb. Like for Ford make the rare raised FoMoCo logo in the middle and for GM can make the T3 triangle logo in the middle. If they did that then I would consider giving it a go. This is a channel I follow on youtube cause it tends to show more details and its a interesting channel of a restoration being done by themselves. This is their video on comparison of the old sealed beam bulbs and the new Holley RetroBright bulbs that they were sent by Holley, they also have time stamps so you can skip to the RetroBright testing. They do look like they have a good low beam pattern but the high beam pattern looks a little questionable. They should be adjustable by tilting the bulb housing but its not something Id be willing to spend that much money on to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Apparently I start thinking about lighting at this time of year. Once again it has been a yearish and I'm back to report on a recent conversation with Daniel Stern. Maybe it has something to do with the World's Series? I say that because we watched the first game last night and it gave me time to do some web surfing. And since I hope to take Big Blue on an overlanding trip in Jan or Feb, during which we'll probably do some night driving I thought I'd see what new LED headlights are available. Sure enough, I found the Holley Retrobrights. And my research found that almost everyone loved them. Almost, save for the Candle Power Forums. Therein Virgil said: "I went ahead and bought some of these (7" large round and 165x100mm small rectangular), and they are very disappointing. Based on my tunnel tests, I could not use them, or recommend anyone else to use them. The problems extend deeply beyond matters of opinion of who does/doesn't like this/that style of beam pattern, etc; there are some pretty clear legality (or lack of) issues. I don't see how these could have passed even a lax compliance test for FMVSS 108 or any other regulation. Frankly, I don't see how they could have been signed off out of R&D; the issues are basic, numerous and severe. Low beam is questionable, high beam is practically nonexistent, the lamps don't appear to be aimable at all, much less by the method indicated on the lens (says "VOL" but there's no low beam cutoff, which is what defines a VOL beam), etc, etc. Too bad; it's a cool idea to have a headlamp with old-fashioned looks and new-fashioned performance, but these just don't cut any mustard. Maybe somebody else will take a whack at the same idea and come up with a better product. For now...no way, no how." Yep thats why I never posted on here when the Retrobright LED bulbs came out by Holley. A) They are insanely expensive for what you are getting. For our trucks the 5"x7" they are $199.95/ea for the Modern white, Classic White, and Yellow. Thats $400 for lights for our trucks, for something like my '78 Mercury that has four bulbs thats $800. B) There were no real test done on them which makes them very questionable to me. If there is no testing done that is provided and you cant really find legit comparisons odds are they are no good. It goes back to the K.C. LED Day Lighters, they claim those two tiny LED bulbs facing the reflector provides more light that is properly focused than a 100w Halogen bulb. I do not believe that and no where online can you find anything by official sources making a proper comparison, just a bunch of "these are cutting edge technology that is far superior than halogen bulbs". In the end the concept is a great one, its just like for the restoration market it would be cool if someone would make concours bulbs that are LED for improved lighting but they look no different than the original bulb. Like for Ford make the rare raised FoMoCo logo in the middle and for GM can make the T3 triangle logo in the middle. If they did that then I would consider giving it a go. This is a channel I follow on youtube cause it tends to show more details and its a interesting channel of a restoration being done by themselves. This is their video on comparison of the old sealed beam bulbs and the new Holley RetroBright bulbs that they were sent by Holley, they also have time stamps so you can skip to the RetroBright testing. They do look like they have a good low beam pattern but the high beam pattern looks a little questionable. They should be adjustable by tilting the bulb housing but its not something Id be willing to spend that much money on to give it a try. Gary will be glad to know that Sentinel Capital Partners now also owns MrGasket, as well as Holley.... 😁 https://www.holley.com/brands/ Expect what you will . I don't expect product which is "Good Enough" to see further development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Great thread Gary, I need to buy new 7" round headlights for my '52 pickup so I'll give this a read. I simply want the best bang for the buck, so not necessarily the brightest lights, but the brightest for the least amount of money . By the way, are daytime running lights a thing in the US yet, or no? I have imported a few trucks from the US and always had to add the little aftermarket DRL kits to make them compliant up here;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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