Norwegian F250, 1984, 460, 2wd

[Gary Lewis]

Ok

From a safety view, would the add on fuel pump be cut off if the inertia switch or/and oil pressure switch opens?

Im thinking the tank selector relay would loose power as intended and therefore the add on pump would´nt be getting power either? Sorry if Im stating the obvious ....

But safety first.

Safety is a must. But I'm not sure I understand your drawing. A relay needs two sources of power to work: power to the coil to pull it in, and power to pin 30 to then send on to the device it is powering.

In your drawing, is the red wire to the add-on fuel pump going to the coil or pin 30? Or maybe both?

The source they've picked, the red power wire for the front fuel pump, is "safe" as it only gets power in Start or in Run when the inertia switch is closed and the oil pressure is up, meaning the engine is running.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Safety is a must. But I'm not sure I understand your drawing. A relay needs two sources of power to work: power to the coil to pull it in, and power to pin 30 to then send on to the device it is powering.

In your drawing, is the red wire to the add-on fuel pump going to the coil or pin 30? Or maybe both?

The source they've picked, the red power wire for the front fuel pump, is "safe" as it only gets power in Start or in Run when the inertia switch is closed and the oil pressure is up, meaning the engine is running.

Two sources of power and a ground....

Look at how the oil pressure switch controls that safety relay.

But all Christian is saying is that they've tapped the front tank feed for power to the added fuelled pump.

It's still seeing power while starting, like any other truck.

But it seems both safeties are retained.

[Papelione]

Two sources of power and a ground....

Look at how the oil pressure switch controls that safety relay.

But all Christian is saying is that they've tapped the front tank feed for power to the added fuelled pump.

It's still seeing power while starting, like any other truck.

But it seems both safeties are retained.

Ok tried testing power in the connector(C-127) (disconnected) to the Tank Selector Valve (TSV).

But with the engine running.

I made this overview on what happens with power shifting the Fuel Tank Selector Switch (FTSS) from front to rear with the engine running.

Words: Tank Selector Valve (TSV), Fuel Tank Selector Switch (FTSS), Tank selector relay TSR

Also wires match up with the EVTM from 1985 even though mine is a 1984 model, only wire discrepant color wire Is the 3rd wire which in mine is blue with a green stripe, in the 1985 its called DB/Y so maybe same color?

I must admit I have some trouble understanding the diagram on page 106 in the 1985 EVTM, but I'm thinking that the signal going to the TSV is correct and that proves the FTSS is ok? Do you guys agree?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok tried testing power in the connector(C-127) (disconnected) to the Tank Selector Valve (TSV).

But with the engine running.

I made this overview on what happens with power shifting the Fuel Tank Selector Switch (FTSS) from front to rear with the engine running.

Words: Tank Selector Valve (TSV), Fuel Tank Selector Switch (FTSS), Tank selector relay TSR

Also wires match up with the EVTM from 1985 even though mine is a 1984 model, only wire discrepant color wire Is the 3rd wire which in mine is blue with a green stripe, in the 1985 its called DB/Y so maybe same color?

I must admit I have some trouble understanding the diagram on page 106 in the 1985 EVTM, but I'm thinking that the signal going to the TSV is correct and that proves the FTSS is ok? Do you guys agree?

If you unplug the TSV, and measure across the TSV, continuity from 2 is on 1 or 3?

It should be on 1, and with 5 energized it should be on 3

Maybe both in-tank pumps are dead, and the previous owner only bothered to make one functional?

This is my guess, because many would be too lazy or ignorant to fix it all.

And the side tank is much easier to access without lifting the bed.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Ok tried testing power in the connector(C-127) (disconnected) to the Tank Selector Valve (TSV).

But with the engine running.

I made this overview on what happens with power shifting the Fuel Tank Selector Switch (FTSS) from front to rear with the engine running.

Words: Tank Selector Valve (TSV), Fuel Tank Selector Switch (FTSS), Tank selector relay TSR

Also wires match up with the EVTM from 1985 even though mine is a 1984 model, only wire discrepant color wire Is the 3rd wire which in mine is blue with a green stripe, in the 1985 its called DB/Y so maybe same color?

I must admit I have some trouble understanding the diagram on page 106 in the 1985 EVTM, but I'm thinking that the signal going to the TSV is correct and that proves the FTSS is ok? Do you guys agree?

Christian - Let me see if I can explain the circuitry on Page 106.

First, the fuel tank selector switch is double-pole double-throw (DPDT) and it reverses the power & ground connections to the tank selector valve depending on which way you throw it. In Front it puts power on the brown/white wire and ground on the orange wire. In rear it puts power on the orange wire and ground on the brown/white wire. And it looks like from your readings that it is working.

That is supposed to run the motor of the tank selector valve to open the supply and return ports to the right tank, and to connect the right sending unit to the gauge. We can't tell with electrical tests if the ports are being selected correctly, but the electrical connections to the sending units aren't. I say that because the blinking you are seeing on the yellow/white wire is coming from the instrument cluster voltage regulator, through the gauge, and down to the tank selector valve. But, if the valve is working correctly that blinking signal should go out on the dark blue/yellow wire in Front or the yellow/light blue wire in Rear. But it isn't.

If you are confident that you are testing with the wires firmly connected to the tank selector valve, and if the gauge doesn't work in either position, then at least the electrical part of the tank selector valve is bad. So if you want your gauge to work then you'll have to replace the TSV.

But we don't know about the ports in the valve. It is doubtful that is working correctly either. But even if you replace it you don't know if the in-tank pumps are good. Are you ready to test them?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Christian - Let me see if I can explain the circuitry on Page 106.

First, the fuel tank selector switch is double-pole double-throw (DPDT) and it reverses the power & ground connections to the tank selector valve depending on which way you throw it. In Front it puts power on the brown/white wire and ground on the orange wire. In rear it puts power on the orange wire and ground on the brown/white wire. And it looks like from your readings that it is working.

That is supposed to run the motor of the tank selector valve to open the supply and return ports to the right tank, and to connect the right sending unit to the gauge. We can't tell with electrical tests if the ports are being selected correctly, but the electrical connections to the sending units aren't. I say that because the blinking you are seeing on the yellow/white wire is coming from the instrument cluster voltage regulator, through the gauge, and down to the tank selector valve. But, if the valve is working correctly that blinking signal should go out on the dark blue/yellow wire in Front or the yellow/light blue wire in Rear. But it isn't.

If you are confident that you are testing with the wires firmly connected to the tank selector valve, and if the gauge doesn't work in either position, then at least the electrical part of the tank selector valve is bad. So if you want your gauge to work then you'll have to replace the TSV.

But we don't know about the ports in the valve. It is doubtful that is working correctly either. But even if you replace it you don't know if the in-tank pumps are good. Are you ready to test them?

Which is why I asked him to do the test.

There's only one solenoid in that valve, and it drives both the contacts and the ports.

If it was stuck it would not switch when unpowered (as default is rear)

But the relay is definitely working.

[Gary Lewis]

Which is why I asked him to do the test.

There's only one solenoid in that valve, and it drives both the contacts and the ports.

If it was stuck it would not switch when unpowered (as default is rear)

But the relay is definitely working.

Right. I knew you knew, but I was just trying to lay it out for him.

But the tank selector valve's contacts for the sending units don't appear to be closing at all since he's not seeing the blinking signal in either position.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Right. I knew you knew, but I was just trying to lay it out for him.

But the tank selector valve's contacts for the sending units don't appear to be closing at all since he's not seeing the blinking signal in either position.

💡!

😉

[Papelione]

💡!

😉

Hi

I think I have been unclear above :=)

The previous test have only been on the connector disconnected from the TSV, (signals going to the TSV), Not sure how to test signals with connector plugged in? ( maybe straighten a paper clips and push in?)

But right now I unplugged the TSV and tested continuity on the TSV with no power on.

Between 2-3 there is continuity but not between 2-1, numbers pointed out in picture below.

/Christian

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hi

I think I have been unclear above :=)

The previous test have only been on the connector disconnected from the TSV, (signals going to the TSV), Not sure how to test signals with connector plugged in? ( maybe straighten a paper clips and push in?)

But right now I unplugged the TSV and tested continuity on the TSV with no power on.

Between 2-3 there is continuity but not between 2-1, numbers pointed out in picture below.

/Christian

So, if you look at Pg.106 -above- we see that default (power to valve motor) the sender contacts should be 2 to 1 (by your list)

With it unplugged 2-3 is correct.

This would tell me the valve is stuck in the front tank position, because you do have power at orange (with the harness connected)

Are you able to apply power and ground to the valve while under the truck?

You should feel the valve switch over (unless it is dead)

I've used diaper pins to either pierce the wire insulation or back probe the connector.

Now I have Power Probe leads for my meter that do this for me, but a pin works fine for this.