Danny G Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 TheScatch - While for the most part I agree with what you've said, I do have a concern with this plan: "When the key is in run/start the batteries are linked so the aux can also add to cranking if needed, and both batteries then share load when the engine is running and both are being charged by the alternator in this state." The way Ford's auxiliary battery setup works, as shown below, is that the aux battery only comes in during Run, not Start. I believe that is so you can run that battery completely down and still start the vehicle. Otherwise the Start battery would be trying to charge the Aux battery at the same time as starting the vehicle. And this is one reason I like the Cole Hersee Smart Isolator. It won't parallel the batteries automatically until one is up to 13.2v, meaning the vehicle is running. But, there's a manual feature where you can force-parallel the batteries by pushing a button. So if you know the Aux battery is charged and want a boost you can do that. The push button to force parallel is a nice feature. I think I originally read how Ford had it run was so you could just run parking lights with the key in off from the Aux battery to reserve the main, then in Run/ACCY off the aux battery and main. Had to do a quick double take here (granted I don't have this set up to begin with so we can deviate a bit) to look and make sure. But my mindset was linking both batteries in ACCY is a potential failure point. If you have your truck in ACCY running the radio and say the blower for an extended period of time you drain both batteries and could end up leaving yourself stranded. I can see how using Start and Run would also leave you with a battery trying to charge the other rather than start the truck. If I understand you right, this would not be an issue with a smart isolator. Take this with a grain of salt, because I haven't sat down and really run through the schematics to check all odds and ends, but we talked about a plug and play fusible link PDC the other day, or even one that uses studs. Take all your non-ignition fuse links, put them in the box powered by the aux battery as hot all the time. Between the hot post and S102 put your isolator keyed hot when the ignition is in RUN. I would personally do it between S101 and Connector C610 so it could be unplugged. This would give you everything in the truck power from the aux battery and keep the main battery isolated until the vehicle is started and engine running at which time the alternator is now charging both and supplying power to whole gambit. Nothing is left on to drain the aux battery, normal function is retained because lights are all switched, and the radio/clock/power window circuits need to have the ignition in ACCY just like before. Sounds like you can do the same with your smart isolator. Aux fuse link box would contain: -Fuse link C - Body Marker Lamps -Fuse link B - Trailer -Fuse link L - Main lights (parking, headlamps, courtesy dome etc) -Fuse link F - Trailer -Fuse link M - Ignition Switch (Required to run radio/power windows in ACCY off only the AUX battery, but may need to be on the main batts line in case you killed your aux battery so you could crank, push button to force parallel solves this easily) -Fuse link P - Trailer Lamps Main Battery fuse link box would contain: -Fuse link S - elec. fuel pump -Fuse link M - Ignition Switch (possibly, see above) -Fuse link N - Start/Ignition (EEC) -Fuse link AX - Carburetor circuit For those add on that are going to run off the aux battery, right next to the PDC for the fusible links put a PDC for fuses for your toys on the driver side. For the fusible links for the main battery/start/ignition you could mount it next to the starter solenoid keeping the two PDC's seperate if you wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 The push button to force parallel is a nice feature. I think I originally read how Ford had it run was so you could just run parking lights with the key in off from the Aux battery to reserve the main, then in Run/ACCY off the aux battery and main. Had to do a quick double take here (granted I don't have this set up to begin with so we can deviate a bit) to look and make sure. But my mindset was linking both batteries in ACCY is a potential failure point. If you have your truck in ACCY running the radio and say the blower for an extended period of time you drain both batteries and could end up leaving yourself stranded. I can see how using Start and Run would also leave you with a battery trying to charge the other rather than start the truck. If I understand you right, this would not be an issue with a smart isolator. Take this with a grain of salt, because I haven't sat down and really run through the schematics to check all odds and ends, but we talked about a plug and play fusible link PDC the other day, or even one that uses studs. Take all your non-ignition fuse links, put them in the box powered by the aux battery as hot all the time. Between the hot post and S102 put your isolator keyed hot when the ignition is in RUN. I would personally do it between S101 and Connector C610 so it could be unplugged. This would give you everything in the truck power from the aux battery and keep the main battery isolated until the vehicle is started and engine running at which time the alternator is now charging both and supplying power to whole gambit. Nothing is left on to drain the aux battery, normal function is retained because lights are all switched, and the radio/clock/power window circuits need to have the ignition in ACCY just like before. Sounds like you can do the same with your smart isolator. Aux fuse link box would contain: -Fuse link C - Body Marker Lamps -Fuse link B - Trailer -Fuse link L - Main lights (parking, headlamps, courtesy dome etc) -Fuse link F - Trailer -Fuse link M - Ignition Switch (Required to run radio/power windows in ACCY off only the AUX battery, but may need to be on the main batts line in case you killed your aux battery so you could crank, push button to force parallel solves this easily) -Fuse link P - Trailer Lamps Main Battery fuse link box would contain: -Fuse link S - elec. fuel pump -Fuse link M - Ignition Switch (possibly, see above) -Fuse link N - Start/Ignition (EEC) -Fuse link AX - Carburetor circuit For those add on that are going to run off the aux battery, right next to the PDC for the fusible links put a PDC for fuses for your toys on the driver side. For the fusible links for the main battery/start/ignition you could mount it next to the starter solenoid keeping the two PDC's seperate if you wanted to. I agree with you that Ford's implementation of the aux batter left a lot to be desired. As you said, running the radio, like at a car show, could easily drain both batteries if you have an upgraded sound system. And, you are right that the Cole Hersee smart isolator wouldn't do that. As for the fuse links, I'm hoping to make this fairly straightforward. The '96 harness has, as I remember it, a large feed that crosses the radiator support and goes to the PDC. So I'm planning to pull the feeds you listed and take them to that PDC, using maxifuse positions stuffed with slow-blow fuses to provide the power. However, there will have to be something on the passenger's fender to hold the megafuse that takes the alternator's output. And, I'm thinking that having a heavy-duty relay on that fender to be the starter relay would be good to keep the wiring from having to run over to the other side. So, maybe a small PDC there to hold both the megafuse and starter relay. Also, I'm hoping to use a relay in the heater circuit to take the load off the switch. Plus, I want headlight relays. And since all of those things are on the passenger's side it would be easiest to do that if the relays are on that side. Concerning the fuse links, they feed either the fuse box under the dash or go to things on the firewall on the driver's side. So it should be easy to pull those wires out of the harness and take them to the PDC. Having said all that, it will be interesting as I start laying out the wiring harnesses and see how they match up. And, thanks for the suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 The push button to force parallel is a nice feature. I think I originally read how Ford had it run was so you could just run parking lights with the key in off from the Aux battery to reserve the main, then in Run/ACCY off the aux battery and main. Had to do a quick double take here (granted I don't have this set up to begin with so we can deviate a bit) to look and make sure. But my mindset was linking both batteries in ACCY is a potential failure point. If you have your truck in ACCY running the radio and say the blower for an extended period of time you drain both batteries and could end up leaving yourself stranded. I can see how using Start and Run would also leave you with a battery trying to charge the other rather than start the truck. If I understand you right, this would not be an issue with a smart isolator. Take this with a grain of salt, because I haven't sat down and really run through the schematics to check all odds and ends, but we talked about a plug and play fusible link PDC the other day, or even one that uses studs. Take all your non-ignition fuse links, put them in the box powered by the aux battery as hot all the time. Between the hot post and S102 put your isolator keyed hot when the ignition is in RUN. I would personally do it between S101 and Connector C610 so it could be unplugged. This would give you everything in the truck power from the aux battery and keep the main battery isolated until the vehicle is started and engine running at which time the alternator is now charging both and supplying power to whole gambit. Nothing is left on to drain the aux battery, normal function is retained because lights are all switched, and the radio/clock/power window circuits need to have the ignition in ACCY just like before. Sounds like you can do the same with your smart isolator. Aux fuse link box would contain: -Fuse link C - Body Marker Lamps -Fuse link B - Trailer -Fuse link L - Main lights (parking, headlamps, courtesy dome etc) -Fuse link F - Trailer -Fuse link M - Ignition Switch (Required to run radio/power windows in ACCY off only the AUX battery, but may need to be on the main batts line in case you killed your aux battery so you could crank, push button to force parallel solves this easily) -Fuse link P - Trailer Lamps Main Battery fuse link box would contain: -Fuse link S - elec. fuel pump -Fuse link M - Ignition Switch (possibly, see above) -Fuse link N - Start/Ignition (EEC) -Fuse link AX - Carburetor circuit For those add on that are going to run off the aux battery, right next to the PDC for the fusible links put a PDC for fuses for your toys on the driver side. For the fusible links for the main battery/start/ignition you could mount it next to the starter solenoid keeping the two PDC's seperate if you wanted to. I like the NW Power Products dual battery system that I first had on my '95 F-150 and now have on my motorhome (I took it off the F-150 when I traded it in). It has a relay and an on-off-on switch with a 2-color indicator lamp. In one "on" position it uses power from the main battery to power the relay, but it's switched power (on the motorhome I use an oil pressure switch so it only gets power if the engine is making oil pressure, meaning it's running). In that position the indicator lamp is green (if the oil pressure switch is on). So I leave it in this position most of the time. The batteries are separate when the engine is off, so the aux battery can be drawn down without risking being able to start the truck. And they remain isolated while I crank the engine on only the main battery. But they are connected once the engine is running so the alternator can charge both batteries. In the other "on" position the relay is powered directly from the aux battery and the indicator lamp is red. This position is labeled "emergency" or something to that effect and can be used to jump start the truck when the main battery is dead but the aux is still charged. But on the motorhome I also use the "emergency" position when the motorhome is plugged into shore power so the power supply can recharge the main battery as well. I also do this when I start the on-board generator once a month or so. This then has the dual purpose of keeping the generator carb from getting plugged up and keeping the batteries charged. On the topic of an on-board battery charger, it depends on the intended use. In my motorhome it is almost essential. When I'm camping I'm not going to be running the truck engine, but I'm going to be using a number of 12V items (lights and the furnace blower mostly) but if possible I'm going to want 110 AC for the water heater and fridge (so I don't need to use up my propane) and for the microwave and occasionally the AC or TV. So if I'm plugged in anyway it might as well be charging the battery. And even if I'm not using the 110, I still don't want to run my aux battery down if I don't need to. So this power supply needs to be a little better than just a battery charger, and it really needs to be on-board. So any vehicle that's used for camping (or something) near where it maty be plugged in could certainly benefit from something like this. On my Bronco I could see the benefit of an on-board battery tender. It sits all winter and every so often I try to remember to hook the battery charger up for a few hours. Having an on-board tender and leaving it plugged in all the time would make it simpler. I'm not choosing to do that because it's not that hard to put a charger on it and I don't particularly want to clutter up the Bronco worse than it already is. But I can see the benefit for a vehicle that's stored for longer periods. On my truck I don't see as much reason for an on-board charger. It never seems to sit for more than a day or two in the winter and a week or two in the summer, so it doesn't need a tender. And the only times I camp out of it are when I'm going somewhere the motorhome won't go, so there probably isn't power anyway. But living in Minnesota I have thought about having a block heater and a battery heater wired into one plug so I can make sure it will crank over easily on a -35 morning. If I did that I suppose I could add a battery charger, but it wouldn't really be needed at that point either. So if you have a use for it, great! I certainly do on the motorhome (which has one). But not quite so much on anything else. 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ArdWrknTrk Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I agree with you that Ford's implementation of the aux batter left a lot to be desired. As you said, running the radio, like at a car show, could easily drain both batteries if you have an upgraded sound system. And, you are right that the Cole Hersee smart isolator wouldn't do that. As for the fuse links, I'm hoping to make this fairly straightforward. The '96 harness has, as I remember it, a large feed that crosses the radiator support and goes to the PDC. So I'm planning to pull the feeds you listed and take them to that PDC, using maxifuse positions stuffed with slow-blow fuses to provide the power. However, there will have to be something on the passenger's fender to hold the megafuse that takes the alternator's output. And, I'm thinking that having a heavy-duty relay on that fender to be the starter relay would be good to keep the wiring from having to run over to the other side. So, maybe a small PDC there to hold both the megafuse and starter relay. Also, I'm hoping to use a relay in the heater circuit to take the load off the switch. Plus, I want headlight relays. And since all of those things are on the passenger's side it would be easiest to do that if the relays are on that side. Concerning the fuse links, they feed either the fuse box under the dash or go to things on the firewall on the driver's side. So it should be easy to pull those wires out of the harness and take them to the PDC. Having said all that, it will be interesting as I start laying out the wiring harnesses and see how they match up. And, thanks for the suggestions. It's interesting you bring this up. I'm considering a rewire of my little PDC so that the PMGR goes to the now spare 'bosch' relay and the big relay wakes the rest of the box up only in start, run or accy. Ordering that stud mount and fuse at NAPA tomorrow! https://www.amazon.com/Bay-Marine-Single-Terminal-included/dp/B07LC6PH1L Odd thing is, the double fused marine version kit (mount and fuses) is a dollar less than single stud kit on Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 I like the NW Power Products dual battery system that I first had on my '95 F-150 and now have on my motorhome (I took it off the F-150 when I traded it in). It has a relay and an on-off-on switch with a 2-color indicator lamp. In one "on" position it uses power from the main battery to power the relay, but it's switched power (on the motorhome I use an oil pressure switch so it only gets power if the engine is making oil pressure, meaning it's running). In that position the indicator lamp is green (if the oil pressure switch is on). So I leave it in this position most of the time. The batteries are separate when the engine is off, so the aux battery can be drawn down without risking being able to start the truck. And they remain isolated while I crank the engine on only the main battery. But they are connected once the engine is running so the alternator can charge both batteries. In the other "on" position the relay is powered directly from the aux battery and the indicator lamp is red. This position is labeled "emergency" or something to that effect and can be used to jump start the truck when the main battery is dead but the aux is still charged. But on the motorhome I also use the "emergency" position when the motorhome is plugged into shore power so the power supply can recharge the main battery as well. I also do this when I start the on-board generator once a month or so. This then has the dual purpose of keeping the generator carb from getting plugged up and keeping the batteries charged. On the topic of an on-board battery charger, it depends on the intended use. In my motorhome it is almost essential. When I'm camping I'm not going to be running the truck engine, but I'm going to be using a number of 12V items (lights and the furnace blower mostly) but if possible I'm going to want 110 AC for the water heater and fridge (so I don't need to use up my propane) and for the microwave and occasionally the AC or TV. So if I'm plugged in anyway it might as well be charging the battery. And even if I'm not using the 110, I still don't want to run my aux battery down if I don't need to. So this power supply needs to be a little better than just a battery charger, and it really needs to be on-board. So any vehicle that's used for camping (or something) near where it maty be plugged in could certainly benefit from something like this. On my Bronco I could see the benefit of an on-board battery tender. It sits all winter and every so often I try to remember to hook the battery charger up for a few hours. Having an on-board tender and leaving it plugged in all the time would make it simpler. I'm not choosing to do that because it's not that hard to put a charger on it and I don't particularly want to clutter up the Bronco worse than it already is. But I can see the benefit for a vehicle that's stored for longer periods. On my truck I don't see as much reason for an on-board charger. It never seems to sit for more than a day or two in the winter and a week or two in the summer, so it doesn't need a tender. And the only times I camp out of it are when I'm going somewhere the motorhome won't go, so there probably isn't power anyway. But living in Minnesota I have thought about having a block heater and a battery heater wired into one plug so I can make sure it will crank over easily on a -35 morning. If I did that I suppose I could add a battery charger, but it wouldn't really be needed at that point either. So if you have a use for it, great! I certainly do on the motorhome (which has one). But not quite so much on anything else. The set up I am talking about basically has the truck take place of a motorhome without having a bed slide in. I have seen a lot of the overland guys bring portable 200+watt solar panels to plug in to top off Batts when off grid. Back when I had a class a rv I was close to buying a set I saw on another guy's class a where he had a solar panel on the roof that was pretty much a rolled out mat that was then attached to the roof. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 The set up I am talking about basically has the truck take place of a motorhome without having a bed slide in. I have seen a lot of the overland guys bring portable 200+watt solar panels to plug in to top off Batts when off grid. Back when I had a class a rv I was close to buying a set I saw on another guy's class a where he had a solar panel on the roof that was pretty much a rolled out mat that was then attached to the roof. Perevoskite solar films are finally taking hold in the building industry. Nothing comes close for ease of installation and damage protection that metal panel roofs with film already applied. They are also more efficient in diffuse light and off axis orientation than silicon wafers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Perevoskite solar films are finally taking hold in the building industry. Nothing comes close for ease of installation and damage protection that metal panel roofs with film already applied. They are also more efficient in diffuse light and off axis orientation than silicon wafers. It's pretty awesome stuff. one of the cool things about the panels on my house (and I believe LG has a line of these) is the light that passes through or gets behind the panel is reflected back up to the underside of the cells and is able to increase the output of the panel by 10-15%. Ill see if I can find the brochure from when I did my roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Perevoskite solar films are finally taking hold in the building industry. Nothing comes close for ease of installation and damage protection that metal panel roofs with film already applied. They are also more efficient in diffuse light and off axis orientation than silicon wafers. It's pretty awesome stuff. one of the cool things about the panels on my house (and I believe LG has a line of these) is the light that passes through or gets behind the panel is reflected back up to the underside of the cells and is able to increase the output of the panel by 10-15%. Ill see if I can find the brochure from when I did my roof. I lied, I actually forgot I opted for the panels made by Canadian Solar and controller by solar edge. 17.8% efficiency rating is in the top tier of current panels. I think the most efficient panel is only around 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I lied, I actually forgot I opted for the panels made by Canadian Solar and controller by solar edge. 17.8% efficiency rating is in the top tier of current panels. I think the most efficient panel is only around 20%. Help me understand those charts? Are we looking at days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Help me understand those charts? Are we looking at days? 1-12, I would assume months. There are cells now that are layered and each layer is 'tuned' for a different slice of the spectrum. So you're gaining from many instead of trying to transform a broad spectrum at reduced efficiency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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