Gary Lewis Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Gentlemen you are a wealth of knowledge and I am glad this discussion is leading to some documented guides that I and others will have all they need to do this swap to DSII. The gentleman on FTE had these final 3 tidbits to say. What are your thoughts Bill? "DS I is a true HEI system that adjusts dwell with engine RPM (DS II is fixed) utilizes a crank retard (DS II does not) and feeds a full 12 V to the coil as opposed to the resisted down voltage of DS II. DS II is not true HEI System like GM's HEI system whereas DS I is." "The install for DS I is very simple two wires need to be switched around and the centre tab on the male dist connector trimmed of connector (it is clocked differently than DS II but is clocked the same as the crank retard module." "you can use the TFI coil with DS II with no issues. The TFI coil is designed to run at much higher power levels than what DS II can generate and the Ford TFI coil falls within the operational tolerances of modern (1980 and up) DS II boxes." I agree with Jim. Whomever is telling you that DS-II is fixed is wrong on that point. Which raises the question of what else he's wrong on? A factory DS-II retards the spark during cranking, and it makes a significant difference. I say "factory" because there are DS-II modules that don't. When I got Big Blue it was hard to turn him over when the engine was hot because it kicked back on the starter. I had another module and swapped it out and it started MUCH easier. Apparently the module on it did not honor the white lead's input. (You can find lots of documentation on the retard feature on the internet, including FTE.) I guess it is possible that the gentleman on FTE didn't mean that DS-II is ALWAYS fixed, so perhaps omitted that bit? Because the DS-II is fixed other than during cranking. As for using a TFI coil on DS-II, if it was a good idea Ford would have done it. They had TFI out while they were still producing DS-II. The TFI coil has a lower impedance than a DS-II coil, so the module has to sink more current to charge it. And that current creates heat, which can damage the module. I would not mix components - Ford designed them and didn't. But, I really don't know much about DS-I, so can't speak to the rest of what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Don't believe me... Ask Bill (Numberdummy) over on FTE. He was a California parts counter man for 38 years, during the heyday of the Bullnose. Oh I believe you, I'm just curious where this guy is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Gentlemen you are a wealth of knowledge and I am glad this discussion is leading to some documented guides that I and others will have all they need to do this swap to DSII. The gentleman on FTE had these final 3 tidbits to say. What are your thoughts Bill? "DS I is a true HEI system that adjusts dwell with engine RPM (DS II is fixed) utilizes a crank retard (DS II does not) and feeds a full 12 V to the coil as opposed to the resisted down voltage of DS II. DS II is not true HEI System like GM's HEI system whereas DS I is." "The install for DS I is very simple two wires need to be switched around and the centre tab on the male dist connector trimmed of connector (it is clocked differently than DS II but is clocked the same as the crank retard module." "you can use the TFI coil with DS II with no issues. The TFI coil is designed to run at much higher power levels than what DS II can generate and the Ford TFI coil falls within the operational tolerances of modern (1980 and up) DS II boxes." I agree with what Gary said, the DSII factory and good aftermarket modules do retard the ignition when cranking, that is the reason for the R/LB input to the white wire (circuit 32) He is probably thinking that the lack of the R/LB wire on the DSII modules deleted the cranking retard. I personally do not know who he is or what experience he has, but, I owned a carburetor and ignition shop until Nov 1978, and have worked on damn near every ignition system that comes into this country or was manufactured here. As I pointed out, if you want to put a Chinese copy of a GM ignition on your truck, that is your prerogative, I was pointing out the fact that those units get their hot spark by using a ton of current. As far as adjusting dwell by rpm he is correct, it does not have a crank retard to my knowledge unless it is rpm controlled like my 1972 Craftsman 10HP engine with electronic ignition, or like the infamous Chrysler Lean Burn, that had two pickups in the distributor, one used for starting the other for running. As for coils, I have never tried a TFI coil on a DSII, but have seen what a high output coil does to a Chrysler module, it cooked it in roughly 30 mins of running. There are probably some aftermarket higher output coils that are compatible with the DSII, He is full of it on the DSI, it was introduced on Ford products starting in 1974, possibly in CA where the 460 engines had Thermoquads. I have never tried to experiment with using an HEI module on a heat sink and triggering it with the DSI/DSII distributor, if it will work (needs a good heat sink) it will most likely run the TFI coil as it is very similar in characteristics to the external coil HEI used on some GM engines where the monster cap would not clear. I actually had a Chevy 2.8L HEI distributor built with a Corvair drive and lower housing as it looks almost like the early Corvair distributor, this used a external coil and needed a relay to power it from the battery due to the length of the power feed on a Corvair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Oh I believe you, I'm just curious where this guy is coming from. Left field??? He has already demonstrated his ignorance of the DSII system. I'd take the rest of it with a grain of salt. Numberdummy bleeds blue, but he is a vocal critic of Ford's poor implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARIAT 85 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Gentlemen you are a wealth of knowledge and I am glad this discussion is leading to some documented guides that I and others will have all they need to do this swap to DSII. The gentleman on FTE had these final 3 tidbits to say. What are your thoughts Bill? "DS I is a true HEI system that adjusts dwell with engine RPM (DS II is fixed) utilizes a crank retard (DS II does not) and feeds a full 12 V to the coil as opposed to the resisted down voltage of DS II. DS II is not true HEI System like GM's HEI system whereas DS I is." "The install for DS I is very simple two wires need to be switched around and the centre tab on the male dist connector trimmed of connector (it is clocked differently than DS II but is clocked the same as the crank retard module." "you can use the TFI coil with DS II with no issues. The TFI coil is designed to run at much higher power levels than what DS II can generate and the Ford TFI coil falls within the operational tolerances of modern (1980 and up) DS II boxes." Here is an interesting discussion that same "gentleman" and I got into over this. I think you will find it enlightening and rather entertaining, to say the least: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1535531-installing-300-6-w-duraspark-in-56-f100.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Here is an interesting discussion that same "gentleman" and I got into over this. I think you will find it enlightening and rather entertaining, to say the least: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1535531-installing-300-6-w-duraspark-in-56-f100.html I'm on Dave's side. At least it isn't 'our friend' with the attitude today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I'm on Dave's side. At least it isn't 'our friend' with the attitude today. Probably his brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I'm on Dave's side. At least it isn't 'our friend' with the attitude today. I feel sorry for Dave. Good guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I feel sorry for Dave. Good guy. Oh...I wasn't paying attention, but now I see what's going on here! It's those pesky Canadians!!! Hey, out of curiosity, while you're all here discussing DSII and all, I had been meaning to ask before about the failure modes of the modules. I've read previously that they typically work 100% until they don't work at all. That they don't display any weirdness or wonkiness, etc...just that they work one day, and then one day they don't. Is this pretty much true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I feel sorry for Dave. Good guy. Sometimes you're just beating your head on the wall of other people's ignorance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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