Gary Lewis Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Looking good! As for the build sheet, I've attempted interpreting them here: Specifications/Build Sheet Interpretation. Not very comprehensive, but it might help. It wasn't my truck, but Scott Ringler (the welder man) came over with his '78 F150 and we put a timing set and a new water pump on it today. Wow, what a simple truck! There's gobs of room under that hood and the 351M is stock. He even has the tube that runs from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner. The timing chain was original and it had LOTS of play in it. We put on a Cloyes true roller chain, and the crankshaft sprocket had positions for 4 degrees retarded, straight up, and 4 degrees advanced. And we had to turn the crank about 4 degrees to get it to go on at the straight up position, so it certainly was one of the retarded timing sets from the factory. Ran out of time and didn't get it fired up tonight, but will tomorrow after church. He should see a difference in power, from the cam timing, as well as a lack of noise from the water pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 It wasn't my truck, but Scott Ringler (the welder man) came over with his '78 F150 and we put a timing set and a new water pump on it today. Wow, what a simple truck! There's gobs of room under that hood and the 351M is stock. He even has the tube that runs from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner. The timing chain was original and it had LOTS of play in it. We put on a Cloyes true roller chain, and the crankshaft sprocket had positions for 4 degrees retarded, straight up, and 4 degrees advanced. And we had to turn the crank about 4 degrees to get it to go on at the straight up position, so it certainly was one of the retarded timing sets from the factory. Ran out of time and didn't get it fired up tonight, but will tomorrow after church. He should see a difference in power, from the cam timing, as well as a lack of noise from the water pump. We got Scott's truck going today, but it wouldn't idle as well as I thought it should so I checked the idle screw - 8 1/4 turns out on the passenger's side and 6 1/4 out on the driver's side. Turned them in to seat them and then out 2 1/2 to start and it would barely run. Wound up at 7 and 7 for a decent idle but still only 17" of vacuum. I'm guessing he has a bad vacuum line somewhere or the EGR valve is leaking. We tested the valve and it moves with vacuum and even holds vacuum, but maybe it isn't closing completely? The truck has all of the 1987 emissions stuff on it, and it is a 351M w/a 2150. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 We got Scott's truck going today, but it wouldn't idle as well as I thought it should so I checked the idle screw - 8 1/4 turns out on the passenger's side and 6 1/4 out on the driver's side. Turned them in to seat them and then out 2 1/2 to start and it would barely run. Wound up at 7 and 7 for a decent idle but still only 17" of vacuum. I'm guessing he has a bad vacuum line somewhere or the EGR valve is leaking. We tested the valve and it moves with vacuum and even holds vacuum, but maybe it isn't closing completely? The truck has all of the 1987 emissions stuff on it, and it is a 351M w/a 2150. Thoughts? 1977 emissions??? Huge vacuum leak. Spray a bunch of carb cleaner around. If it's not there, the intake is leaking from the valley. Did you try removing the PCV valve? And wafting an unlit propane torch into the valve cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 1977 emissions??? Huge vacuum leak. Spray a bunch of carb cleaner around. If it's not there, the intake is leaking from the valley. Did you try removing the PCV valve? And wafting an unlit propane torch into the valve cover? Sorry, 1978 emissions. We haven’t done any more troubleshooting, like propane or carb cleaner. We were running out of time, and then the thunder came so we quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Sorry, 1978 emissions. We haven’t done any more troubleshooting, like propane or carb cleaner. We were running out of time, and then the thunder came so we quit. Gary. from what I remember the 351M/400 carbs are lean as hell from the factory. I would get a set of carburetor mount and EGR plate gaskets, I will hazard a guess it may well be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 Gary. from what I remember the 351M/400 carbs are lean as hell from the factory. I would get a set of carburetor mount and EGR plate gaskets, I will hazard a guess it may well be there. There are vacuum lines everywhere, with thermal switches and check valves, etc. And everything has connections, with the attendant chance to leak. And the valves, switches, etc can leak as well. So, I'm thinking he has a choice to make. Either we pull the carb and go through it, pull the EGR valve and clean it, and replace many/most/all of the vacuum lines, or we gently remove all of that and add back the one vacuum line he needs - vacuum advance. (He has an NP435 and 78's had no vacuum to the heater.) Tuck the vacuum harness and EGR valve away and he can return it to stock if he needs to at a later date. And, if those engines were lean from the factory then it might be about right w/o the EGR. But at least we'd know if that solves the problem. Oh yes, I heard a noise coming from the carb today that I've never heard. It was a grumble sound, and it happened at really low idle. I am sure it was from the carb as both of us put a hose to our ear and listened to find it. And it went away if the idle came up to above 600 RPM. But below that there was this weird sound. Could it be exhaust? Might that confirm that the EGR valve isn't fully closing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 There are vacuum lines everywhere, with thermal switches and check valves, etc. And everything has connections, with the attendant chance to leak. And the valves, switches, etc can leak as well. So, I'm thinking he has a choice to make. Either we pull the carb and go through it, pull the EGR valve and clean it, and replace many/most/all of the vacuum lines, or we gently remove all of that and add back the one vacuum line he needs - vacuum advance. (He has an NP435 and 78's had no vacuum to the heater.) Tuck the vacuum harness and EGR valve away and he can return it to stock if he needs to at a later date. And, if those engines were lean from the factory then it might be about right w/o the EGR. But at least we'd know if that solves the problem. Oh yes, I heard a noise coming from the carb today that I've never heard. It was a grumble sound, and it happened at really low idle. I am sure it was from the carb as both of us put a hose to our ear and listened to find it. And it went away if the idle came up to above 600 RPM. But below that there was this weird sound. Could it be exhaust? Might that confirm that the EGR valve isn't fully closing? Or that the EGR spacer is burned through. Very common on the old aluminum ones Ford used in those years, bad enough I kept a couple of the cast iron service replacements in my shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyn Blin Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 My shifting has usually been smooth, but I recently have been having some snags downshifting to 2nd. I figured I would start with the simplest troubleshooting first, so I changed the fluid after I found a good deal on a gallon of Mobil 1 75-90. It's now shifting buttery smooth, at least during my 20 mile "break in" run. I also took the grease gun to every zerk fitting I could find on the front suspension linkages, axles and u-joints. It's likely just the placebo effect of the butt-dyno, but everything seems to be a bit more quiet and tame. I've heard some gossip about M1 gear oil and brass parts not playing well together. I've never seen an NP435 disassembled- are there in fact any yellow metal forks or rings or other parts I should furrow an eyebrow over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 My shifting has usually been smooth, but I recently have been having some snags downshifting to 2nd. I figured I would start with the simplest troubleshooting first, so I changed the fluid after I found a good deal on a gallon of Mobil 1 75-90. It's now shifting buttery smooth, at least during my 20 mile "break in" run. I also took the grease gun to every zerk fitting I could find on the front suspension linkages, axles and u-joints. It's likely just the placebo effect of the butt-dyno, but everything seems to be a bit more quiet and tame. I've heard some gossip about M1 gear oil and brass parts not playing well together. I've never seen an NP435 disassembled- are there in fact any yellow metal forks or rings or other parts I should furrow an eyebrow over? Bill - Wasn't aware that some of the EGR adapters were aluminum. We will check this one over - probably as we are pulling it. Thanks for the tip. Mark - Yes, the NP435 has brass synchros, as do most manual transmissions. But this page on Mobil 1 75W-90 says: Excellent rust, staining and corrosion protection of copper and its alloys Helps to reduce wear Long component life And since brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, you should be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1986F150Six Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Mark - Yes, the NP435 has brass synchros, as do most manual transmissions. But this page on Mobil 1 75W-90 says: Excellent rust, staining and corrosion protection of copper and its alloys Helps to reduce wear Long component life And since brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, you should be good to go. That [Mobil 1 75W90] is what we put in my transmission at the GTG a couple of years ago and everything is still fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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