Gary Lewis Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 I couldn‘t identify the cause yet but i can reproduce it now when I lift the rear bumper on the left corner and let it down again. Not on the right corner though. Need to get a friend to help me on finalizing the search, one lifting and one listening and looking 😄 I'm not understanding that statement. Are you lifting it off the ground or just taking weight off by hand? Anyway, you are making progress. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen1964 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 I couldn‘t identify the cause yet but i can reproduce it now when I lift the rear bumper on the left corner and let it down again. Not on the right corner though. Need to get a friend to help me on finalizing the search, one lifting and one listening and looking 😄I'm not understanding that statement. Are you lifting it off the ground or just taking weight off by hand?Anyway, you are making progress. Good luck!Must be language Gary. Meaning taking weight off by hand and putting it back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Did a little interior work this weekend. Found a piece of carpet for the back wall of my truck. It was originally red. Can you paint carpet? Yep, with this stuff you can. Though I've seen some on YouTube paint the entire interior carpet with this stuff, I wouldn't. But, for what I'm doing with this and where it is going, no brainer. http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n91790/Cab_Wall_Carpet_1.jpghttp://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n91790/Cab_Wall_Carpet_2.jpg Also did a little work on my map light. The chrome on my light was badly pitted but the guts were good. Found a map light locally that had good chrome but the guts needed replacing. Made the exchange by drilling out the rivets holding it all together and exchanging components. Drilled out the four main rivets and then tap drilled to 10-24 screw size and used four 10-24 screws to hold it together. Was pleased in how that worked out. http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n91790/Map_Light_1.jpghttp://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n91790/Map_light_2.jpg Lastly, cleaned up, painted, and added a little bling to my pedals. http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n91790/Pedal_1.jpghttp://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n91790/Pedal_2.jpg Thats the same style LED bulb I used on my dome light on my truck. It provides better light but its not that great as my truck still sports the white plastic lens and not the clear lens. Im on the fence about buying a NOS white plastic lens with the hopes its a little more translucent like the white lens on my '56 Fairlane was or just go with the clear lens. I also kind of thinking about the stick on LED light strips and terminate it in a T10 wedge bulb base to make it plug and play on the inside of the dome light housing. This is mine at night time. Aside from that I myself am transcribing my engine specs to a engine notepad I am starting as I wait for a email with the short block specs to be emailed to me to give the ok on and get my short block in line to be built. Just got a email from Creb Engineering for the 306 short block build a first draft as he titled it. Have to say it is looking good though for a platform to build my mild performance build for my daily driver flareside. On the block he broke it down as follows. * Seasoned Ford roller block * Square decked * Line Honed * Square bored and honed w/ honing plates * Trial assembly * Lifter bores are honed Then for the parts list break down as follows * Sealed Power Hyper. Coated 0.030/0.040" pistons * Hasting Moly Rings 0.030/0.040" * 50oz balance * Reconditioned OE 5.090" rods * King or FM Main and Rod Bearings * Seal Power cam bearings * Brass Freeze Plugs * ARP main bolts * Gasket Set At the end he also wanted to know year/make I am building for, my cell number for easier contact, what color I wanted, what was my main use and where I would want it shipped to either a shipping terminal or a place of business. I opted for the $100 - $150 extra on shipping for residential delivery as all the local shipping terminals to me have 1 or 2 star reviews for lost packages, damaged packages, or just plain horrible customer service. I rather avoid that. Only thing is it appears OE bolts will be used for the rods and I am not sure if that will be a weak link in my build for a 1400-5400 engine with a 6000 redline. I know you cant go to studs on the main caps cause it changes the clamping force but for bolts I dont think it would change the rod bearing clearance to pop out the OE bolts and throw in a set of ARP rod bolts. Might be something I bring up with the builder and have him bill me extra for that if he feels the OE rod bolts are going to be a weak link for me. In any case I am glad to be getting some real progress done on my engine build to get my truck back on the road. Just need to find a reasonably priced folding engine stand similar to how the crank engine stands from summit and jegs fold up. My other engine stand is currently holding the engine for my '63 project and I dont have the room to place that engine so a new stand it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Just got a email from Creb Engineering for the 306 short block build a first draft as he titled it. Have to say it is looking good though for a platform to build my mild performance build for my daily driver flareside. On the block he broke it down as follows. * Seasoned Ford roller block * Square decked * Line Honed * Square bored and honed w/ honing plates * Trial assembly * Lifter bores are honed Then for the parts list break down as follows * Sealed Power Hyper. Coated 0.030/0.040" pistons * Hasting Moly Rings 0.030/0.040" * 50oz balance * Reconditioned OE 5.090" rods * King or FM Main and Rod Bearings * Seal Power cam bearings * Brass Freeze Plugs * ARP main bolts * Gasket Set At the end he also wanted to know year/make I am building for, my cell number for easier contact, what color I wanted, what was my main use and where I would want it shipped to either a shipping terminal or a place of business. I opted for the $100 - $150 extra on shipping for residential delivery as all the local shipping terminals to me have 1 or 2 star reviews for lost packages, damaged packages, or just plain horrible customer service. I rather avoid that. Only thing is it appears OE bolts will be used for the rods and I am not sure if that will be a weak link in my build for a 1400-5400 engine with a 6000 redline. I know you cant go to studs on the main caps cause it changes the clamping force but for bolts I dont think it would change the rod bearing clearance to pop out the OE bolts and throw in a set of ARP rod bolts. Might be something I bring up with the builder and have him bill me extra for that if he feels the OE rod bolts are going to be a weak link for me. In any case I am glad to be getting some real progress done on my engine build to get my truck back on the road. Just need to find a reasonably priced folding engine stand similar to how the crank engine stands from summit and jegs fold up. My other engine stand is currently holding the engine for my '63 project and I dont have the room to place that engine so a new stand it is. Dynamic fasteners work not because the steel is that much 'stiffer' but because a higher pre-tension means their 'relaxed' state is closer to fully stressed (at the end of the stroke) It is load cycling that causes rod bolt failures. And if you can't change the piston weight or its speed of deceleration you 'can' make the pre-load higher so the cycle is smaller. Engine builders understand this, and will resize the rod, torqued to whatever is speced. If Ford says 65, and ARP says 80, you run a much bigger risk with ARP at 65 than Ford bolts at 80. Really the builder should be measuring bolt stretch if there is a spec for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Dynamic fasteners work not because the steel is that much 'stiffer' but because a higher pre-tension means their 'relaxed' state is closer to fully stressed (at the end of the stroke) It is load cycling that causes rod bolt failures. And if you can't change the piston weight or its speed of deceleration you 'can' make the pre-load higher so the cycle is smaller. Engine builders understand this, and will resize the rod, torqued to whatever is speced. If Ford says 65, and ARP says 80, you run a much bigger risk with ARP at 65 than Ford bolts at 80. Really the builder should be measuring bolt stretch if there is a spec for that. Thats the thing thats why I am letting someone that has the experience to do the rotating assembly build for me hes been in business for over 50 years now. I dont know all that much about the whole rod/main bolt aspect. I believe ARP rod bolts go by torque to yield where you need to know bolt stretch but I think the OE rod bolts for fords are just a torque spec. That is also why I dont trust that one youtube kid he didnt torque ARP bolts to spec he found the middle ground between OE spec and ARP torque spec and torqued it to that. The whole point of ARP giving a higher torque spec is because you are using the ARP lube on the threads and washer heads which changes the torque value over the OE bolts without the lube and without the washer heads so to achieve the same clamping force I know the ARP bolts will be higher rated on torque spec than the OE spec. I believe the intake manifold bolts which I got are ARP are 5/16" bolts and based off their Fastener Tensile Strength for the 170,000/180,000 PSI fastners in 5/16" the torque spec is 24 ft-lbs. OE spec for the intake manifold bolts are actually 23-25 ft-lbs. Or the Cam Thrust Plate bolts which are 1/4" and for ARP they state 12 ft-lbs on the torque but OE spec is 8-10 ft-lbs. Cam bolt itself is 3/8" and ARP states 45 ft-lbs and OE spec is 40-45 ft lbs. ARP bolts I find tend to be on the higher end torque wise than OE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Dynamic fasteners work not because the steel is that much 'stiffer' but because a higher pre-tension means their 'relaxed' state is closer to fully stressed (at the end of the stroke) It is load cycling that causes rod bolt failures. And if you can't change the piston weight or its speed of deceleration you 'can' make the pre-load higher so the cycle is smaller. Engine builders understand this, and will resize the rod, torqued to whatever is speced. If Ford says 65, and ARP says 80, you run a much bigger risk with ARP at 65 than Ford bolts at 80. Really the builder should be measuring bolt stretch if there is a spec for that. Thats the thing thats why I am letting someone that has the experience to do the rotating assembly build for me hes been in business for over 50 years now. I dont know all that much about the whole rod/main bolt aspect. I believe ARP rod bolts go by torque to yield where you need to know bolt stretch but I think the OE rod bolts for fords are just a torque spec. That is also why I dont trust that one youtube kid he didnt torque ARP bolts to spec he found the middle ground between OE spec and ARP torque spec and torqued it to that. The whole point of ARP giving a higher torque spec is because you are using the ARP lube on the threads and washer heads which changes the torque value over the OE bolts without the lube and without the washer heads so to achieve the same clamping force I know the ARP bolts will be higher rated on torque spec than the OE spec. I believe the intake manifold bolts which I got are ARP are 5/16" bolts and based off their Fastener Tensile Strength for the 170,000/180,000 PSI fastners in 5/16" the torque spec is 24 ft-lbs. OE spec for the intake manifold bolts are actually 23-25 ft-lbs. Or the Cam Thrust Plate bolts which are 1/4" and for ARP they state 12 ft-lbs on the torque but OE spec is 8-10 ft-lbs. Cam bolt itself is 3/8" and ARP states 45 ft-lbs and OE spec is 40-45 ft lbs. ARP bolts I find tend to be on the higher end torque wise than OE. Using their proper lube, and having better thread surfaces result in higher clamping pressures because less force is required to overcome friction on the driving flank of the screw thread. When we measure stretch, we measure the fastener load directly, there's no component of friction, and no math to convert thread angle and lever length to a clamping force. Ford builds mass production cars that are expected to last hundreds of thousands of miles. When we see engine failures in a production vehicle it is usually a head lifting, not a rotating part. Torque is reliable enough for production and general repair. The 6.0's lifting heads that required cab removal was a costly mistake that was exacerbated by tuners. The fix was studs, because cranking on a nut was steel on steel and not damaging the threads in the block. For something like an intake, high strength bolts are pointless. Unless you are running crazy blower pressures and R&R every couple of minutes of run time. Look at the clamping force for a coarse and fine pitch bolt of the same diameter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Using their proper lube, and having better thread surfaces result in higher clamping pressures because less force is required to overcome friction on the driving flank of the screw thread. When we measure stretch, we measure the fastener load directly, there's no component of friction, and no math to convert thread angle and lever length to a clamping force. Ford builds mass production cars that are expected to last hundreds of thousands of miles. When we see engine failures in a production vehicle it is usually a head lifting, not a rotating part. Torque is reliable enough for production and general repair. The 6.0's lifting heads that required cab removal was a costly mistake that was exacerbated by tuners. The fix was studs, because cranking on a nut was steel on steel and not damaging the threads in the block. For something like an intake, high strength bolts are pointless. Unless you are running crazy blower pressures and R&R every couple of minutes of run time. Look at the clamping force for a coarse and fine pitch bolt of the same diameter Correct, I dont need the ARP bolts for the intake, I just bought them cause I wanted new fasteners for my engine build and didnt want to waste time cleaning up old fasteners. On the flip side I am not sure if I will be able to get a local custom shop to cut open the 85-86 15 gallon saddle tank I will be ordering to put in a baffle but I was looking at photos of the tank and it looks like it is recessed slightly in the middle with steps and I am wondering if it would be possible to use fairly short strips of steel with small arches cut in the bottom and reach through the large sending unit opening and weld it in the tank. Im not sure how one could put a baffle in this OE tank any other way as I fear cutting in the top will weaken the top where it clamps the tank up against the tank mounts. I guess one could cut the bottom of the tank out weld in the baffling then weld it all back in but that I feel pose a risk for leaks. Its a shame no one makes a saddle tank with baffling already in them. So many people are doing these EFI conversions youd think that they would make them by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Using their proper lube, and having better thread surfaces result in higher clamping pressures because less force is required to overcome friction on the driving flank of the screw thread. When we measure stretch, we measure the fastener load directly, there's no component of friction, and no math to convert thread angle and lever length to a clamping force. Ford builds mass production cars that are expected to last hundreds of thousands of miles. When we see engine failures in a production vehicle it is usually a head lifting, not a rotating part. Torque is reliable enough for production and general repair. The 6.0's lifting heads that required cab removal was a costly mistake that was exacerbated by tuners. The fix was studs, because cranking on a nut was steel on steel and not damaging the threads in the block. For something like an intake, high strength bolts are pointless. Unless you are running crazy blower pressures and R&R every couple of minutes of run time. Look at the clamping force for a coarse and fine pitch bolt of the same diameter Correct, I dont need the ARP bolts for the intake, I just bought them cause I wanted new fasteners for my engine build and didnt want to waste time cleaning up old fasteners. On the flip side I am not sure if I will be able to get a local custom shop to cut open the 85-86 15 gallon saddle tank I will be ordering to put in a baffle but I was looking at photos of the tank and it looks like it is recessed slightly in the middle with steps and I am wondering if it would be possible to use fairly short strips of steel with small arches cut in the bottom and reach through the large sending unit opening and weld it in the tank. Im not sure how one could put a baffle in this OE tank any other way as I fear cutting in the top will weaken the top where it clamps the tank up against the tank mounts. I guess one could cut the bottom of the tank out weld in the baffling then weld it all back in but that I feel pose a risk for leaks. Its a shame no one makes a saddle tank with baffling already in them. So many people are doing these EFI conversions youd think that they would make them by now. I like the ARP look. Even the 12 point flanges ones. I'm cheap, so I bought a stainless dress-up bolt kit. Mostly because I hate rusty fasteners. Is there a reason you need baffles when you could just stuff the tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I like the ARP look. Even the 12 point flanges ones. I'm cheap, so I bought a stainless dress-up bolt kit. Mostly because I hate rusty fasteners. Is there a reason you need baffles when you could just stuff the tank? same here, I personally how ever went with 6 point hex on my ARP fasteners as you can always put a 12 point socket on a 6 point bolt but you cant put a 6 point socket on a 12 point hex. For me I like to retain the option of socket choices if I am in a pinch. I thought of that stuffing the tank with something like fuel cell foam. Wasnt sure if that would cut down on the fuel volume or not. Never really owned or messed with fuel cells before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I like the ARP look. Even the 12 point flanges ones. I'm cheap, so I bought a stainless dress-up bolt kit. Mostly because I hate rusty fasteners. Is there a reason you need baffles when you could just stuff the tank? same here, I personally how ever went with 6 point hex on my ARP fasteners as you can always put a 12 point socket on a 6 point bolt but you cant put a 6 point socket on a 12 point hex. For me I like to retain the option of socket choices if I am in a pinch. I thought of that stuffing the tank with something like fuel cell foam. Wasnt sure if that would cut down on the fuel volume or not. Never really owned or messed with fuel cells before. ARP stuff is incredible and the stainless is addictive. So be careful - you'll start with the engine dress up kit and next you'll have replaced almost every nut and bolt on the truck with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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