WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

[85lebaront2]

Using their proper lube, and having better thread surfaces result in higher clamping pressures because less force is required to overcome friction on the driving flank of the screw thread.

When we measure stretch, we measure the fastener load directly, there's no component of friction, and no math to convert thread angle and lever length to a clamping force.

Ford builds mass production cars that are expected to last hundreds of thousands of miles.

When we see engine failures in a production vehicle it is usually a head lifting, not a rotating part.

Torque is reliable enough for production and general repair.

The 6.0's lifting heads that required cab removal was a costly mistake that was exacerbated by tuners.

The fix was studs, because cranking on a nut was steel on steel and not damaging the threads in the block.

For something like an intake, high strength bolts are pointless.

Unless you are running crazy blower pressures and R&R every couple of minutes of run time.

Look at the clamping force for a coarse and fine pitch bolt of the same diameter

Since fasteners are an area I have some experience in, I will relate an interesting bit of testing I was tasked with. First, torque as Jim pointed out is a less than perfect method of determining the stress applied. It is extremely dependent on what boils down to "how slippery is your lubricant?". This is why the manufacturer's procedure is important and why most newer engines give a stretch value (angle of rotation) and many now have single use head bolts (my 1994 Taurus with the 3.8L V6 had that).

When I built the 2.2L turbo engine for my original LeBaron convertible, I used all ARP fasteners in critical areas. Main caps, rods and cylinder head. The rods are like Ford ones in using pressed in bolts and then nuts to secure the cap. I was doing these and my son and one of his friends came by. Skip asked my son "why is he measuring the rod bolts?" Matt informed him that was the reason a custom built engine costs so much, between parts and the labor intensive assembly. The head also uses studs as do the main caps. ARP specs their torque values based on using their lube.

Before I retired from NNS, we had a contractor running a large amount of plumbing and wiring in a trough that pretty well runs 3/4 of the length of the yard. The DI (Deionized) water portion is all CRES including the fasteners. QID, our nuclear inspection group, was inspecting a section and noticed grade 2 steel bolts and questioned that and the torque requirements based on using Neolube, a graphite in isopropyl alcohol lubricant as it is safe for use in the reactors and piping. The contractor was using a soapy water lubricant. Full on panic by QID! They brought several of the fastener pairs, a bottle of the contractors lubricant and a fresh bottle of Neolube to the lab. We have a bolt tension indicator, a Skidmore-Wilhelm hydraulic load cell that reads out in PSI applied which is then converted to actual stress based on the bolt cross section area at the threads.

These were 5/8-11 bolts, spec called for them to be 304 CRES cond B which is pretty strong, theirs were plain old hardware store bolts. With their lube at the specified torque it was pretty close. Neolube procedure calls for applying a coat to both parts and allowing it to dry fully, then apply a second coat and allow it to dry fully. Torque and stress were what was expected. My boss said "let's try with the Neolube still wet", eye opener, I couldn't get much over 60-70% of the torque, but pulled several of the 5/8-11 bolts apart, that stuff is flat slippery when wet!

My immediate supervisor was having a problem with a high pressure (2000 psi) accumulator tank we had built in-house. It had a load of 3/4-16 high strength (B7 steel) studs holding 2" thick end plates on a length of 12" high pressure pipe and sealed with 3/8" cross section O-rings in a closely fitted groove. He

was having the tech torque the nuts, lubricated of course, to 80% yield stress. It kept blowing the O-rings, one or the other out of the grooves. I asked him (he is one damn good mechanical engineer) what the load on the ends was at 2000 psi. He ran the numbers, said something less than printable, rechecked, called the other tech and asked him had he torqued the ends yet, when he was told no, he gave him a new value and it never leaked again. Engineer's comment, I couldn't see the forest for the trees.

We had a device that was interesting, it was a Raymond Engineering Boltmaster, It measured the bolt stretch ultrasonically. When it was decided to scrap it I tried to have it "scrapped" to the trunk of my Taurus.

[ArdWrknTrk]

ARP stuff is incredible and the stainless is addictive. So be careful - you'll start with the engine dress up kit and next you'll have replaced almost every nut and bolt on the truck with them

I dint have ARP stainless Scott!

Just your elCheapo eBay kit for exterior fasteners.

They fend off rust and the hex doesn't rot round.

Tin covers, intake, timing case and water pump aren't high stress areas.

[Tyler]

Using their proper lube, and having better thread surfaces result in higher clamping pressures because less force is required to overcome friction on the driving flank of the screw thread.

When we measure stretch, we measure the fastener load directly, there's no component of friction, and no math to convert thread angle and lever length to a clamping force.

Ford builds mass production cars that are expected to last hundreds of thousands of miles.

When we see engine failures in a production vehicle it is usually a head lifting, not a rotating part.

Torque is reliable enough for production and general repair.

The 6.0's lifting heads that required cab removal was a costly mistake that was exacerbated by tuners.

The fix was studs, because cranking on a nut was steel on steel and not damaging the threads in the block.

For something like an intake, high strength bolts are pointless.

Unless you are running crazy blower pressures and R&R every couple of minutes of run time.

Look at the clamping force for a coarse and fine pitch bolt of the same diameter

Correct, I dont need the ARP bolts for the intake, I just bought them cause I wanted new fasteners for my engine build and didnt want to waste time cleaning up old fasteners.

On the flip side I am not sure if I will be able to get a local custom shop to cut open the 85-86 15 gallon saddle tank I will be ordering to put in a baffle but I was looking at photos of the tank and it looks like it is recessed slightly in the middle with steps and I am wondering if it would be possible to use fairly short strips of steel with small arches cut in the bottom and reach through the large sending unit opening and weld it in the tank. Im not sure how one could put a baffle in this OE tank any other way as I fear cutting in the top will weaken the top where it clamps the tank up against the tank mounts. I guess one could cut the bottom of the tank out weld in the baffling then weld it all back in but that I feel pose a risk for leaks.

Its a shame no one makes a saddle tank with baffling already in them. So many people are doing these EFI conversions youd think that they would make them by now.

Have you looked into Holley's hydromat? It's pricey but might be similar to what you'd eventually spend on custom welding and such.

[kramttocs]

I dint have ARP stainless Scott!

Just your elCheapo eBay kit for exterior fasteners.

They fend off rust and the hex doesn't rot round.

Tin covers, intake, timing case and water pump aren't high stress areas.

Hey Jim - sorry, that faux warning was directed at Rusty.

That's a neat post Bill and would have been fun to be part of that testing.

[Rusty_S85]

ARP stuff is incredible and the stainless is addictive. So be careful - you'll start with the engine dress up kit and next you'll have replaced almost every nut and bolt on the truck with them

I bought ARP polished stainless for my valve covers.

# 621-3500 for $16.99 for 5 bolts.

# 621-0515 for $10.99 for 5 bolts.

I needed one 3500 for the center top valve cover bolt on each side and two sets of 0515 for the other four bolts per valve cover so cost me $38.97 just to do my valve covers in polished stainless steel bolts which I think look great in contrast against dark ford corporate blue.

[Rusty_S85]

Have you looked into Holley's hydromat? It's pricey but might be similar to what you'd eventually spend on custom welding and such.

I have and I thought of running that but my big thing is Holley states that they have a life span of 5 to 10 years with your average service life for a typical street car of being 6 years or 60,000 miles.

I just dont know if I want to be dropping my fuel tank every 6 years to change the hydromat.

How ever what I was thinking of just now is I dont need a whole full baffle system, all I really need is just something to slow the fuel slosh as much as possible so in theory I could make a short 4 to 5 inch tall plate and build a box around the sump in the tank with openings for allowing fuel in and out. I feel this would be all I would really need as I dont plan on running my tank dry but I do want to prevent starvation down to 1/8 tank as I have a habit of filling up at a 1/4 tank and with a 16 gallon tank I wouldnt want to fill up any more often as it will negate the point of trying to improve my fuel economy between fill ups.

[85lebaront2]

Have you looked into Holley's hydromat? It's pricey but might be similar to what you'd eventually spend on custom welding and such.

I have and I thought of running that but my big thing is Holley states that they have a life span of 5 to 10 years with your average service life for a typical street car of being 6 years or 60,000 miles.

I just dont know if I want to be dropping my fuel tank every 6 years to change the hydromat.

How ever what I was thinking of just now is I dont need a whole full baffle system, all I really need is just something to slow the fuel slosh as much as possible so in theory I could make a short 4 to 5 inch tall plate and build a box around the sump in the tank with openings for allowing fuel in and out. I feel this would be all I would really need as I dont plan on running my tank dry but I do want to prevent starvation down to 1/8 tank as I have a habit of filling up at a 1/4 tank and with a 16 gallon tank I wouldnt want to fill up any more often as it will negate the point of trying to improve my fuel economy between fill ups.

Nothing on Darth, but did do some work on one of my other "trucks", the 2009 Flex. When I test drove it last September I felt it probably needed motor mounts due to the vibration and being able to feel the engine shift under changing load. I replaced the torque strut shortly after buying it and it helped but everything pointed to bad mounts. There are only two, a hydraulic one on the engine end and a round sleeve style on the transaxle end. That one involves removing the battery and tray along with the battery tray bracket.

Here is the frame side of the transaxle mount viewed from the rear:

Again, from the rear with the transaxle portion beside it (there is a bracket bolted through this portion):

Closeup looking through where the rubber should be, raised bumps are the pads for torque reaction, rusted stud goes up through the bracket and battery tray:

Inner portion, you can see where it was metal to metal:

The engine end looked much better, but looked like it might have been leaking some fluid (not as bad as the Taurus ones that dumped rusty water all over).

[Gsmblue]

Nothing on Darth, but did do some work on one of my other "trucks", the 2009 Flex. When I test drove it last September I felt it probably needed motor mounts due to the vibration and being able to feel the engine shift under changing load. I replaced the torque strut shortly after buying it and it helped but everything pointed to bad mounts. There are only two, a hydraulic one on the engine end and a round sleeve style on the transaxle end. That one involves removing the battery and tray along with the battery tray bracket.

Here is the frame side of the transaxle mount viewed from the rear:

Again, from the rear with the transaxle portion beside it (there is a bracket bolted through this portion):

Closeup looking through where the rubber should be, raised bumps are the pads for torque reaction, rusted stud goes up through the bracket and battery tray:

Inner portion, you can see where it was metal to metal:

The engine end looked much better, but looked like it might have been leaking some fluid (not as bad as the Taurus ones that dumped rusty water all over).

Apparently i spent 5 hours polishing and waxing Elyza today. My wife was keeping count.😖

[ArdWrknTrk]

Apparently i spent 5 hours polishing and waxing Elyza today. My wife was keeping count.😖

I'm interested in what your summer plans are for her.

What's special about a centurion truck over a crew cab dually from the factory?

[Gary Lewis]

Apparently i spent 5 hours polishing and waxing Elyza today. My wife was keeping count.😖

It sure looks good.

I spent that long washing and waxing Big Blue recently and didn't get nearly that result.