WHYDTYTT: What Have You Done To Your Truck Today?

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks Gary... I may just hold out and bring the stove piece. Someone already welded it together about an inch away. That weld held but it broke in a new spot. I really want this done right since it isn’t just decoration for us 🙂

The ZF is a 42, wide ratio 460 Bell. I’m probably just going to clean and re-seal it, drill the bell for the IDI and put it in. The ratios will work well if I use the GVOD.

If I get out to the shop tomorrow I'll check the rebuilt ZF for play in the input shaft. It has never been run, so is as tight as it was after the re-build.

[Ford F834]

If I get out to the shop tomorrow I'll check the rebuilt ZF for play in the input shaft. It has never been run, so is as tight as it was after the re-build.

A fresh built ZF ~shouldn’t have any play... I’m just wondering how long it stays like that. The ZF that I gave to Jan didn’t have any play, but the throw out bearing had seized and destroyed the quil tube. I bought another one for it, and a seal kit. We had to remove the main case to put the new quil tube in from the back side. Upon re-assembly the input shaft would not even turn. We had to take it back apart and re-seat the seal and oil slinger. It is amazing how little it took to seize it up, and I’m thinking the amount of wiggle that I have may be acceptable for a “broken in” transmission. There is an end-play pre load adjustment that is critical for case expansion with heat, and too tight is not good either. If I am off base, please stop me, but it just seems like this may be normal for a used copy. My diesel ZF is truly bad. The shaft moves maybe 1/16” off axis. I call that sloppy and in need of new parts but this one is very little. Maybe 10 thousandths?

[Gary Lewis]

If I get out to the shop tomorrow I'll check the rebuilt ZF for play in the input shaft. It has never been run, so is as tight as it was after the re-build.

A fresh built ZF ~shouldn’t have any play... I’m just wondering how long it stays like that. The ZF that I gave to Jan didn’t have any play, but the throw out bearing had seized and destroyed the quil tube. I bought another one for it, and a seal kit. We had to remove the main case to put the new quil tube in from the back side. Upon re-assembly the input shaft would not even turn. We had to take it back apart and re-seat the seal and oil slinger. It is amazing how little it took to seize it up, and I’m thinking the amount of wiggle that I have may be acceptable for a “broken in” transmission. There is an end-play pre load adjustment that is critical for case expansion with heat, and too tight is not good either. If I am off base, please stop me, but it just seems like this may be normal for a used copy. My diesel ZF is truly bad. The shaft moves maybe 1/16” off axis. I call that sloppy and in need of new parts but this one is very little. Maybe 10 thousandths?

I don't have a clue what is acceptable play. And, I've not seen the inside of a ZF. In fact, from what I've been told it takes special tools, but maybe that's to take the gears off the shafts. However, the guy that rebuilt several transfer cases and differentials for me said he doesn't have the tools nor expertise to do a ZF.

But, you do know that I have ZF manuals here - right? Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/ZF5.

[Ford F834]

I don't have a clue what is acceptable play. And, I've not seen the inside of a ZF. In fact, from what I've been told it takes special tools, but maybe that's to take the gears off the shafts. However, the guy that rebuilt several transfer cases and differentials for me said he doesn't have the tools nor expertise to do a ZF.

But, you do know that I have ZF manuals here - right? Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/ZF5.

Yes, thank you Gary! I am definitely glad you have the literature posted, as I may rebuild a ZF. Either for this build or a future one. Special tools are not required to remove the main case. If you want to strip everything off the shafts then yes, there is a short list of pullers and specialty tools that one ought to use.... however... if you are just doing your own transmission and don’t want to spend a bunch on pullers you ~can just slam the main shaft down on a piece of plate steel or concrete. It is hardened (you won’t hurt it by doing so), and the components will force themselves off by inertia. Somewhere I have a link on how to rebuild one without the special tools. Not the repair manual recommended way, but it can be done. To get them back on you heat the gears to expand them and they slide on without force. I have kind of been looking forward to trying it and being able to say I rebuilt my own ZF, but at the same time hoping to find a good one so I could skip that step and progress with the build. The details are killing it.

[1986F150Six]

Yes, thank you Gary! I am definitely glad you have the literature posted, as I may rebuild a ZF. Either for this build or a future one. Special tools are not required to remove the main case. If you want to strip everything off the shafts then yes, there is a short list of pullers and specialty tools that one ought to use.... however... if you are just doing your own transmission and don’t want to spend a bunch on pullers you ~can just slam the main shaft down on a piece of plate steel or concrete. It is hardened (you won’t hurt it by doing so), and the components will force themselves off by inertia. Somewhere I have a link on how to rebuild one without the special tools. Not the repair manual recommended way, but it can be done. To get them back on you heat the gears to expand them and they slide on without force. I have kind of been looking forward to trying it and being able to say I rebuilt my own ZF, but at the same time hoping to find a good one so I could skip that step and progress with the build. The details are killing it.

Jonathan,

I have a friend who formerly worked for ZF. I copied your description, regarding input shaft play, and passed it on to him.

Here is his reply:

DB,

That transmission is actually a S5-42, 47, etc.

The S is for fully synchronized. Even the reverse gear was synchronized. The 5 is for 5 speed. The 42, 47 etc. is for foot pounds of input torque rating. Example: 42 represents 420 foot pounds of input torque.

That transmission was my technical responsibility as a service engineer at ZF.

This series of transmission was installed in most if not all HD and Super Duty Ford trucks.

The achilles heel was the "pocket bearing" and noise. The pocket bearing is the bearing located between the input shaft and main shaft of the transmission. The noise is from the gears rattling in the aluminum casing. This is caused by the expansion of the aluminum casing.

A small amount of play of the input shaft does not necessarily indicate that there is a problem.

These transmissions were notoriously noisy and you would swear that it was going to fall out but would operate just fine.

The trouble shooting procedures were set up for the transmission to be tested while in the truck or on a test stand.

With the correct tools from ZF, it is not difficult to repair.

 

[fords4life]

Jonathan,

I have a friend who formerly worked for ZF. I copied your description, regarding input shaft play, and passed it on to him.

Here is his reply:

DB,

That transmission is actually a S5-42, 47, etc.

The S is for fully synchronized. Even the reverse gear was synchronized. The 5 is for 5 speed. The 42, 47 etc. is for foot pounds of input torque rating. Example: 42 represents 420 foot pounds of input torque.

That transmission was my technical responsibility as a service engineer at ZF.

This series of transmission was installed in most if not all HD and Super Duty Ford trucks.

The achilles heel was the "pocket bearing" and noise. The pocket bearing is the bearing located between the input shaft and main shaft of the transmission. The noise is from the gears rattling in the aluminum casing. This is caused by the expansion of the aluminum casing.

A small amount of play of the input shaft does not necessarily indicate that there is a problem.

These transmissions were notoriously noisy and you would swear that it was going to fall out but would operate just fine.

The trouble shooting procedures were set up for the transmission to be tested while in the truck or on a test stand.

With the correct tools from ZF, it is not difficult to repair.

Aside from fighting the intermittent no start issue when it is wet outside, I've been dealing with the truck being totaled out for hail damage. Insurance low balled me at a value of $1300. Took over a month, but I finally got them to $3,800 and after all said and done, I am keeping the 'ol girl and getting a check for $2800 and a clear title. Now the fun begins collecting parts and getting an estimate to repair and repaint the roof of the truck. The bed already had some damage so it will stay for now. Already found a hood locally in perfect condition for $50, just needs paint.

 

[1986F150Six]

Aside from fighting the intermittent no start issue when it is wet outside, I've been dealing with the truck being totaled out for hail damage. Insurance low balled me at a value of $1300. Took over a month, but I finally got them to $3,800 and after all said and done, I am keeping the 'ol girl and getting a check for $2800 and a clear title. Now the fun begins collecting parts and getting an estimate to repair and repaint the roof of the truck. The bed already had some damage so it will stay for now. Already found a hood locally in perfect condition for $50, just needs paint.

Tough luck, but a fresh start!

[Gary Lewis]

Aside from fighting the intermittent no start issue when it is wet outside, I've been dealing with the truck being totaled out for hail damage. Insurance low balled me at a value of $1300. Took over a month, but I finally got them to $3,800 and after all said and done, I am keeping the 'ol girl and getting a check for $2800 and a clear title. Now the fun begins collecting parts and getting an estimate to repair and repaint the roof of the truck. The bed already had some damage so it will stay for now. Already found a hood locally in perfect condition for $50, just needs paint.

Yes, fresh starts can be good. But sad that you had to do it.

[Ford F834]

Jonathan,

I have a friend who formerly worked for ZF. I copied your description, regarding input shaft play, and passed it on to him.

Here is his reply:

DB,

That transmission is actually a S5-42, 47, etc.

The S is for fully synchronized. Even the reverse gear was synchronized. The 5 is for 5 speed. The 42, 47 etc. is for foot pounds of input torque rating. Example: 42 represents 420 foot pounds of input torque.

That transmission was my technical responsibility as a service engineer at ZF.

This series of transmission was installed in most if not all HD and Super Duty Ford trucks.

The achilles heel was the "pocket bearing" and noise. The pocket bearing is the bearing located between the input shaft and main shaft of the transmission. The noise is from the gears rattling in the aluminum casing. This is caused by the expansion of the aluminum casing.

A small amount of play of the input shaft does not necessarily indicate that there is a problem.

These transmissions were notoriously noisy and you would swear that it was going to fall out but would operate just fine.

The trouble shooting procedures were set up for the transmission to be tested while in the truck or on a test stand.

With the correct tools from ZF, it is not difficult to repair.

Wow! David! I can’t thank you enough... that is exactly the information/experience that I needed. Gary, since this is a quote from a knowledgeable source, can we capture this...maybe in resources?

[Gary Lewis]

Wow! David! I can’t thank you enough... that is exactly the information/experience that I needed. Gary, since this is a quote from a knowledgeable source, can we capture this...maybe in resources?

Jonathan - I think it is a good idea to capture it, but wonder if we shouldn't clear that with gentleman first. I realize that we've captured it in the forum, but placing it on a web page seems different somehow.

And, thinking about where to put it, what about creating another tab called something like "Tips" on the ZF5 page in Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/ZF5?

David - Would you ask him if that's ok?