ArdWrknTrk Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I will refrain from commenting on the technical aspect of a leaf spring TTB swap since I have not actually done one, but... I recently did the *much* easier direct bolt in F150 4x4 conversion and my take-away lesson is that it is a really big job that I would probably not do again unless it was for a VERY special truck. An older crew cab might very well be worth it, since 4x4 crew cabs are few and far between. However, if you are going to go through the effort of converting it, my strong recommendation would be to not mess around with a TTB. Source a Dana 60 straight axle and install it using a reverse shackle kit. They make them now that fit our frame horns and that is as close as you are going to get to a bolt in mount. It will be a better stronger truck with worlds less headache, but considerably more expensive because of the D60 axle prices. Locating a F350 straight axle ZF-5 donor would be ideal. In the for-what-it's-worth department, diesel guys can swap a 4x4 ZF-5 into a T19 or a C6 truck with no modifications needed to either driveshaft. The 460 ZF is identical except for the gear ratios and slightly different bellhousing holes (if you look at a diesel ZF you can even see slight traces where the 460 holes would be). The 460 guys may correct me, but I suspect they can be ZF swapped without driveshaft modifications also. My 460 truck was always 4x4 coming with a T-19 and a BW 1356 *slip yoke* transfer case. The Zf-5 fit right in, needing only the floor pan and the proper 1 1/4" 10 spline clutch. I swapped the original T-19 transfer case linkage and stick to the Zf so i did not have to mount the later range selector stick in the side of the tunnel. But I kept the TTB in my 250 (for now) A D60 (350) front axle uses a double cardan driveshaft and needs a different yoke on the front of the transfer case. Between a diesel and 460 bellhousing only the top two bolt holes are the same. The diesel bell also is not drilled to accept a starter, because the diesel starter mounts to an adapter plate that is not present on the 460. Bill can elaborate on the coil v/ leaf situation. My truck has always had leafs, and a D60 will have nothing to hold it in place without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 My 460 truck was always 4x4 coming with a T-19 and a BW 1356 *slip yoke* transfer case. The Zf-5 fit right in, needing only the floor pan and the proper 1 1/4" 10 spline clutch. I swapped the original T-19 transfer case linkage and stick to the Zf so i did not have to mount the later range selector stick in the side of the tunnel. But I kept the TTB in my 250 (for now) A D60 (350) front axle uses a double cardan driveshaft and needs a different yoke on the front of the transfer case. Between a diesel and 460 bellhousing only the top two bolt holes are the same. The diesel bell also is not drilled to accept a starter, because the diesel starter mounts to an adapter plate that is not present on the 460. Bill can elaborate on the coil v/ leaf situation. My truck has always had leafs, and a D60 will have nothing to hold it in place without them. Yep, I swapped a ZF5 into Dad's truck and used the driveshafts that were on the C6. Retained the NP208 and that meant the shafts fit right back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Yep, I swapped a ZF5 into Dad's truck and used the driveshafts that were on the C6. Retained the NP208 and that meant the shafts fit right back. But your truck has a fixed yoke and slip shaft, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Yep, I swapped a ZF5 into Dad's truck and used the driveshafts that were on the C6. Retained the NP208 and that meant the shafts fit right back. Since you have a 4WD same year truck, then you could probably do it. As Jim pointed out, alignment is critical. The twin traction beams use leaf springs that actually twist as they deflect so the mounting point for the rear on the spring is a critical spot as it determines the location of the axle's outer end. I suspect the inner pivots mount the same as the twin I-beams do. After that, you will in all probability have to remove the coil spring bucket and transfer the shock tower from the other frame. By having both trucks, you at least can compare the parts and see what is different and also get the spacer blocks and axle bolts along with any other differences in the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I recently did the *much* easier direct bolt in F150 4x4 conversion and my take-away lesson is that it is a really big job that I would probably not do again unless it was for a VERY special truck. Hey Jon, You did this swap on your 81? If yes, I don't think I was aware that you had. I was searching for info on the swap and found this thread (that's what forums are for, right?>..lol). I was talking to a guy yesterday that says he has everything for the swap, and cheap too. It all looks to me like pretty straight forward plug-N-play parts, but your comments above are kinda making it sound like bad news... Care to share?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I recently did the *much* easier direct bolt in F150 4x4 conversion and my take-away lesson is that it is a really big job that I would probably not do again unless it was for a VERY special truck. Hey Jon, You did this swap on your 81? If yes, I don't think I was aware that you had. I was searching for info on the swap and found this thread (that's what forums are for, right?>..lol). I was talking to a guy yesterday that says he has everything for the swap, and cheap too. It all looks to me like pretty straight forward plug-N-play parts, but your comments above are kinda making it sound like bad news... Care to share?... Cory, I did indeed convert my 81 from a 2wd to 4x4. It is not hard to do at all,it’s just that the parts are very heavy and awkward to work with. It really helps to have the whole donor, or access to one, since there are a lot of little details besides the obvious. I took the easy way out and kept the narrower 2wd rear leaf springs (instead of drilling out the rivets and switching the shackle hangers to the 3” found on 4x4). That’s a decision you will want to make for yourself. I did need the rear lift blocks, wider spring plates and U bolts from the donor. You can read more about my whole project in my build thread here, and my old thread on FTE has more of the swap details: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1486376-1981-straight-six-manual-4x4-project.html?styleid=26 http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/1981-straight-six-manual-4x4-project-td1312.html I certainly don’t mean to discourage anyone from doing the swap. I just want folks to understand that it’s a lot more work than it looks like from the armchair. If it’s a nice truck... then go for it!!! I did this swap on a beater, and I would have been better off just finding one since regular cab long bed isn’t anything too special. Sure has been nice to have now that it’s done though 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Cory, I did indeed convert my 81 from a 2wd to 4x4. It is not hard to do at all,it’s just that the parts are very heavy and awkward to work with. It really helps to have the whole donor, or access to one, since there are a lot of little details besides the obvious. Jon it just occurred to me that you've done both a 4x4 swap, and shortened a frame...they're a couple big accomplishments in the old truck modification category! I've located everything for this swap...it's just a matter if I want to do it or not. One guy about an hour from here that specializes in Ford truck parts says he has everything needed. It would mostly all be from 1987-1996 trucks, but he does still have some Bullnose parts scattered around. I've also found a complete truck for a potential full swap. I'd much rather do it this way...like you said, to have everything all together. The whole works. Going to check it out today and see what the scoop is on it. The swap, technically speaking, seems pretty easy. However, I get it...the stuff is heavy and awkward. I would most certainly do this at my work where I have access to a forklift and overhead lifts. I did my 5spd swap at home, on the floor, with all four of my 2wd tires on the floor, and I'm paying for it now with shoulder troubles...lol. The older I get, the better I was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Cory, I did indeed convert my 81 from a 2wd to 4x4. It is not hard to do at all,it’s just that the parts are very heavy and awkward to work with. It really helps to have the whole donor, or access to one, since there are a lot of little details besides the obvious. Jon it just occurred to me that you've done both a 4x4 swap, and shortened a frame...they're a couple big accomplishments in the old truck modification category! I've located everything for this swap...it's just a matter if I want to do it or not. One guy about an hour from here that specializes in Ford truck parts says he has everything needed. It would mostly all be from 1987-1996 trucks, but he does still have some Bullnose parts scattered around. I've also found a complete truck for a potential full swap. I'd much rather do it this way...like you said, to have everything all together. The whole works. Going to check it out today and see what the scoop is on it. The swap, technically speaking, seems pretty easy. However, I get it...the stuff is heavy and awkward. I would most certainly do this at my work where I have access to a forklift and overhead lifts. I did my 5spd swap at home, on the floor, with all four of my 2wd tires on the floor, and I'm paying for it now with shoulder troubles...lol. The older I get, the better I was! One thing easily forgotten is the transmission cover. Yes, you can cut a hole in your floor, but that's not the way to do it, and unless your 2wd truck is an auto you'll probably have no bolt-on tranny cover. So that's one of the little details that a parts truck gives you. Another is the wiring for the 4wd indicator on the dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Cory, I did indeed convert my 81 from a 2wd to 4x4. It is not hard to do at all,it’s just that the parts are very heavy and awkward to work with. It really helps to have the whole donor, or access to one, since there are a lot of little details besides the obvious. Jon it just occurred to me that you've done both a 4x4 swap, and shortened a frame...they're a couple big accomplishments in the old truck modification category! I've located everything for this swap...it's just a matter if I want to do it or not. One guy about an hour from here that specializes in Ford truck parts says he has everything needed. It would mostly all be from 1987-1996 trucks, but he does still have some Bullnose parts scattered around. I've also found a complete truck for a potential full swap. I'd much rather do it this way...like you said, to have everything all together. The whole works. Going to check it out today and see what the scoop is on it. The swap, technically speaking, seems pretty easy. However, I get it...the stuff is heavy and awkward. I would most certainly do this at my work where I have access to a forklift and overhead lifts. I did my 5spd swap at home, on the floor, with all four of my 2wd tires on the floor, and I'm paying for it now with shoulder troubles...lol. The older I get, the better I was! Cory, a donor truck is extremely helpful, but the other edge of that sword is the logistics of getting rid of the remains. In my case it had to be able to roll and steer so the junkyard guys could retrieve it on their rollback. It didn’t fully double the work but almost... since I had to put the 2wd stuff back under the donor. The best of both worlds would be access to one you could tear apart and leave. A fresh junkyard specimen kind of gives you that, but you need a comprehensive list. Also junkyard driveshafts are usually ruined, at least the rear one. If you want to do the rear spring swap, getting the hangers off in the junkyard would require some good battery operated drills, sharp metal chisels and a lot of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Cory, a donor truck is extremely helpful, but the other edge of that sword is the logistics of getting rid of the remains. In my case it had to be able to roll and steer so the junkyard guys could retrieve it on their rollback. It didn’t fully double the work but almost... since I had to put the 2wd stuff back under the donor. The best of both worlds would be access to one you could tear apart and leave. A fresh junkyard specimen kind of gives you that, but you need a comprehensive list. Also junkyard driveshafts are usually ruined, at least the rear one. If you want to do the rear spring swap, getting the hangers off in the junkyard would require some good battery operated drills, sharp metal chisels and a lot of time. Why not buy a running 4wd and swap, then sell a running 2wd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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