Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

[Gary Lewis]

I know I'm a few days late on this . . but as stated, the low vacuum is what makes SD systems go wacky. That is why when the first 5.0 HO Mustangs came out, everyone thought modifications were over . . unless you reflashed the chip for your exact setup. But two years later, MAF was introduced and most issues were taken care of with that. But back to the SD, there were camshafts that were available that said they were SD compliant . This basically said not a lot of overlap at low RPMs, a narrower lobe separation.

Pete - I agree about the cam, and suspect that the Edelbock Performer is, indeed, an SD-compatible cam. Here's a link to three youtube videos I shot this afternoon. The engine was warm, the choke was off, the gauge was connected to a vacuum port on the carb, and the speed was 500 RPM:

Given that, I'm pretty sure that speed-density/bank-fire would work fine. But, if Dyn can get the parts I need for MAF/SEFI/OBD-II then that's what I would prefer.

[Ford F834]

Pete - I agree about the cam, and suspect that the Edelbock Performer is, indeed, an SD-compatible cam. Here's a link to three youtube videos I shot this afternoon. The engine was warm, the choke was off, the gauge was connected to a vacuum port on the carb, and the speed was 500 RPM:

Given that, I'm pretty sure that speed-density/bank-fire would work fine. But, if Dyn can get the parts I need for MAF/SEFI/OBD-II then that's what I would prefer.

Gary,

 

After seeing the floor pans on my donor truck I am no longer a fan of rubber floors. I realize that in order for rust to set in like that there has to be a reason that water is getting inside the cab, but if/when it does, it can’t leave if it has the rubber floor. I’ve just seen it on too many junkyard vehicles, and I don’t like it. A good removeable foot mat is going to be the best way to catch and remove mud regardless of whether you have carpet or rubber.

As you know I just put the Bronco captain chairs in my single cab mounted on the 40/20/40 OBS seat track. It sits me just a tad lower than a bench, at least with this seat track. I find it very comfortable, I like the way the Captain chairs hug your body a little bit. Don’t get me wrong, I have always loved the old Ford bench seats, but for long traveling I think these may just be a bit more comfy. Mine are the tall back chairs, and they do touch the back glass with the track all the way back… but you can’t recline a bench seat anyway. The low back Bronco buckets might gain you a bit of recline, but at the expense of the headrest. I am just a smidge shy of 6’ tall, so I actually don’t drive with the seat track all the way back. Your mileage may vary as far as seat comfort. The nice part is it only takes 15 minutes to swap the 40/20/40 track + seats to give it a try and you don’t have to drill holes. You will need the 40/20/40 seat belt receivers though. The Bronco/Supercab receivers hit the pan and point upward, causing the belt to dig into your neck.

 

I have the 1980-1991 “early” style console sitting in mine at the moment. I have not fastened it in. The cup holders are not much improvement over the circles on the glovebox door. I’ve seen people cut the bottoms out and put a wood shelf under the open holes to support the cups. I am torn, I like the look of the period correct console and its much larger size. However it does not fit the 40/20/40 pan without huge spacers in the front, and the cup holders don’t work. The 1992-1996 console is flat on the bottom, has working cup holders but looks “wrong” to me. I also noticed the early console may be able to mount further back and let the dip at the rear of the console rest on the floor and have the front edge supported by the seat pan. The jury is still out. I am not sure whether I will keep the captain chairs or go back to the bench. If I keep them, I’m not sure if I like the 40/20/40 seat pan for mounting. It shows more than I like, the corner of the track catches my pant leg, and it complicates the mounting of the correct console. But I’m not decided on the console either. I’m going to see how I feel about the whole matter after our trip this month. If you are wanting to “borrow” Dad’s seats for this trip, maybe you could just put some generic seat covers over them to keep them clean?

 

Regarding the use of Big Blue for overlanding compared with a lighter GVWR, he is certainly very capable but there are drawbacks. One: High center problems over humps in the road and maneuverability with the longer wheelbase (especially through trees), Two: broader turning radius with the leaf sprung front end, and Three: weight is not your friend when it comes to scrambling up steep loose surfaces or making it through soft mud without sinking into it too much. You have to weigh the benefits of each and know the type of trekking that you want to do. Bronco or short bed pickups definitely have the advantage with center clearance and tighter turning radius. That said, they are squirrely for towing if you want to trailer a camper and then explore, and they don’t offer the space or cargo capacity that an 8 lug truck will give you. I am working towards having one of each! 😉

 

[85lebaront2]

Pete - I agree about the cam, and suspect that the Edelbock Performer is, indeed, an SD-compatible cam. Here's a link to three youtube videos I shot this afternoon. The engine was warm, the choke was off, the gauge was connected to a vacuum port on the carb, and the speed was 500 RPM:

Given that, I'm pretty sure that speed-density/bank-fire would work fine. But, if Dyn can get the parts I need for MAF/SEFI/OBD-II then that's what I would prefer.

Gary, the vacuum doesn't seem to irregular, and given the fact that your are noticing a misfire, that could be your pulsation. FWIW, most EFI engines idle a bit faster, Darth is set to 750 if I remember correctly. I would say an SD/BF system would work great on Big Blue.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary,

 

After seeing the floor pans on my donor truck I am no longer a fan of rubber floors. I realize that in order for rust to set in like that there has to be a reason that water is getting inside the cab, but if/when it does, it can’t leave if it has the rubber floor. I’ve just seen it on too many junkyard vehicles, and I don’t like it. A good removeable foot mat is going to be the best way to catch and remove mud regardless of whether you have carpet or rubber.

As you know I just put the Bronco captain chairs in my single cab mounted on the 40/20/40 OBS seat track. It sits me just a tad lower than a bench, at least with this seat track. I find it very comfortable, I like the way the Captain chairs hug your body a little bit. Don’t get me wrong, I have always loved the old Ford bench seats, but for long traveling I think these may just be a bit more comfy. Mine are the tall back chairs, and they do touch the back glass with the track all the way back… but you can’t recline a bench seat anyway. The low back Bronco buckets might gain you a bit of recline, but at the expense of the headrest. I am just a smidge shy of 6’ tall, so I actually don’t drive with the seat track all the way back. Your mileage may vary as far as seat comfort. The nice part is it only takes 15 minutes to swap the 40/20/40 track + seats to give it a try and you don’t have to drill holes. You will need the 40/20/40 seat belt receivers though. The Bronco/Supercab receivers hit the pan and point upward, causing the belt to dig into your neck.

 

I have the 1980-1991 “early” style console sitting in mine at the moment. I have not fastened it in. The cup holders are not much improvement over the circles on the glovebox door. I’ve seen people cut the bottoms out and put a wood shelf under the open holes to support the cups. I am torn, I like the look of the period correct console and its much larger size. However it does not fit the 40/20/40 pan without huge spacers in the front, and the cup holders don’t work. The 1992-1996 console is flat on the bottom, has working cup holders but looks “wrong” to me. I also noticed the early console may be able to mount further back and let the dip at the rear of the console rest on the floor and have the front edge supported by the seat pan. The jury is still out. I am not sure whether I will keep the captain chairs or go back to the bench. If I keep them, I’m not sure if I like the 40/20/40 seat pan for mounting. It shows more than I like, the corner of the track catches my pant leg, and it complicates the mounting of the correct console. But I’m not decided on the console either. I’m going to see how I feel about the whole matter after our trip this month. If you are wanting to “borrow” Dad’s seats for this trip, maybe you could just put some generic seat covers over them to keep them clean?

 

Regarding the use of Big Blue for overlanding compared with a lighter GVWR, he is certainly very capable but there are drawbacks. One: High center problems over humps in the road and maneuverability with the longer wheelbase (especially through trees), Two: broader turning radius with the leaf sprung front end, and Three: weight is not your friend when it comes to scrambling up steep loose surfaces or making it through soft mud without sinking into it too much. You have to weigh the benefits of each and know the type of trekking that you want to do. Bronco or short bed pickups definitely have the advantage with center clearance and tighter turning radius. That said, they are squirrely for towing if you want to trailer a camper and then explore, and they don’t offer the space or cargo capacity that an 8 lug truck will give you. I am working towards having one of each! 😉

Jonathan - What about a rubber mat over sprayed-in bed liner? Wouldn't the bed liner prevent the rust? And provide a bit of sound reduction? But, I take your point about a rubber mat over carpet, which would be easier to do. However, the carpet has to come out to put the ZF in as I'll have to go with the tall tranny cover, so could spray in the bed liner then. Maybe that's a good idea anyway if there's no rust?

Glad to see that the buckets (captain's chairs, actually) work, albeit with some issues. But at least they allow you to get situated correctly. And, I like the body-hugging part of them as well, which would come in handy for the overlanding/off-road part. Plus, if we do go to the North Rim, I already know it is a long drive out there, so the extra comfort won't go un-appreciated. As for trying Dad's in Big Blue, I wasn't thinking of doing so on that trip. Just around here to see that we like them.

On the console, it took a bit of machining to create the spacers for Dad's truck in order to use the later console. Yes, it doesn't look quite right, but only you and I know that, and it gives much better cup holders, although the early one can be modified.

Anyway, if you find you don't like your seats, perhaps you'll want to sell them and the seat track?

On the length issue, Big Blue sits high enough that I'm hoping it won't be a problem. And, from what I've seen in the pictures and videos, we won't be needing to turn too tightly. But, you've been all over that country and I haven't, so I'm sure you know much better than I do.

As for the weight, yes that could be an issue. But, with the weight comes bigger tires to spread the weight, so I'm hoping we won't have a problem. And the gentleman at 4wd Parts in Tulsa, who may join here as he has an '86 Bronco and wants a Bullnose shortbed, has a 90's F250 Crewcab long-bed and it is tricked out w/everything and he uses it almost every weekend for overlanding. However, until we get some experience it might be best to make the additions to Big Blue things that could also be moved over to a Bronco.

Bill - Thanks. If the EEC-V system isn't there when Dyn goes, I may put the EEC-IV system on. That was my thinking when I got the parts from Jim and bought Huck so I'd have plenty of parts. I'm assuming that a '95 F450's computer had OBD and it'll give some sort of diagnostics?

As for the miss, it comes and goes and isn't noticed except at the exhaust. There was a point yesterday when I put my foot over one tailpipe and heard it, but then it went away almost immediately. And the vacuum gauge was the same before and after.

I wonder about the plugs. These are the ones that Vernon had in and they went through the gasoline bath. Might one of them be bad?

[85lebaront2]

Jonathan - What about a rubber mat over sprayed-in bed liner? Wouldn't the bed liner prevent the rust? And provide a bit of sound reduction? But, I take your point about a rubber mat over carpet, which would be easier to do. However, the carpet has to come out to put the ZF in as I'll have to go with the tall tranny cover, so could spray in the bed liner then. Maybe that's a good idea anyway if there's no rust?

Glad to see that the buckets (captain's chairs, actually) work, albeit with some issues. But at least they allow you to get situated correctly. And, I like the body-hugging part of them as well, which would come in handy for the overlanding/off-road part. Plus, if we do go to the North Rim, I already know it is a long drive out there, so the extra comfort won't go un-appreciated. As for trying Dad's in Big Blue, I wasn't thinking of doing so on that trip. Just around here to see that we like them.

On the console, it took a bit of machining to create the spacers for Dad's truck in order to use the later console. Yes, it doesn't look quite right, but only you and I know that, and it gives much better cup holders, although the early one can be modified.

Anyway, if you find you don't like your seats, perhaps you'll want to sell them and the seat track?

On the length issue, Big Blue sits high enough that I'm hoping it won't be a problem. And, from what I've seen in the pictures and videos, we won't be needing to turn too tightly. But, you've been all over that country and I haven't, so I'm sure you know much better than I do.

As for the weight, yes that could be an issue. But, with the weight comes bigger tires to spread the weight, so I'm hoping we won't have a problem. And the gentleman at 4wd Parts in Tulsa, who may join here as he has an '86 Bronco and wants a Bullnose shortbed, has a 90's F250 Crewcab long-bed and it is tricked out w/everything and he uses it almost every weekend for overlanding. However, until we get some experience it might be best to make the additions to Big Blue things that could also be moved over to a Bronco.

Bill - Thanks. If the EEC-V system isn't there when Dyn goes, I may put the EEC-IV system on. That was my thinking when I got the parts from Jim and bought Huck so I'd have plenty of parts. I'm assuming that a '95 F450's computer had OBD and it'll give some sort of diagnostics?

As for the miss, it comes and goes and isn't noticed except at the exhaust. There was a point yesterday when I put my foot over one tailpipe and heard it, but then it went away almost immediately. And the vacuum gauge was the same before and after.

I wonder about the plugs. These are the ones that Vernon had in and they went through the gasoline bath. Might one of them be bad?

Gary, EEC-IV has the older interface, but, with the proper equipment the system will give live data so you can see what is going on. Matt had my old Snap-On MT2500 which works up til maybe 2000 YM I believe. He may consider parting with it as I don't think he has anything that it works with since he sold the Mustang.

[Gary Lewis]

Jonathan - What about a rubber mat over sprayed-in bed liner? Wouldn't the bed liner prevent the rust? And provide a bit of sound reduction? But, I take your point about a rubber mat over carpet, which would be easier to do. However, the carpet has to come out to put the ZF in as I'll have to go with the tall tranny cover, so could spray in the bed liner then. Maybe that's a good idea anyway if there's no rust?

Glad to see that the buckets (captain's chairs, actually) work, albeit with some issues. But at least they allow you to get situated correctly. And, I like the body-hugging part of them as well, which would come in handy for the overlanding/off-road part. Plus, if we do go to the North Rim, I already know it is a long drive out there, so the extra comfort won't go un-appreciated. As for trying Dad's in Big Blue, I wasn't thinking of doing so on that trip. Just around here to see that we like them.

On the console, it took a bit of machining to create the spacers for Dad's truck in order to use the later console. Yes, it doesn't look quite right, but only you and I know that, and it gives much better cup holders, although the early one can be modified.

Anyway, if you find you don't like your seats, perhaps you'll want to sell them and the seat track?

On the length issue, Big Blue sits high enough that I'm hoping it won't be a problem. And, from what I've seen in the pictures and videos, we won't be needing to turn too tightly. But, you've been all over that country and I haven't, so I'm sure you know much better than I do.

As for the weight, yes that could be an issue. But, with the weight comes bigger tires to spread the weight, so I'm hoping we won't have a problem. And the gentleman at 4wd Parts in Tulsa, who may join here as he has an '86 Bronco and wants a Bullnose shortbed, has a 90's F250 Crewcab long-bed and it is tricked out w/everything and he uses it almost every weekend for overlanding. However, until we get some experience it might be best to make the additions to Big Blue things that could also be moved over to a Bronco.

Bill - Thanks. If the EEC-V system isn't there when Dyn goes, I may put the EEC-IV system on. That was my thinking when I got the parts from Jim and bought Huck so I'd have plenty of parts. I'm assuming that a '95 F450's computer had OBD and it'll give some sort of diagnostics?

As for the miss, it comes and goes and isn't noticed except at the exhaust. There was a point yesterday when I put my foot over one tailpipe and heard it, but then it went away almost immediately. And the vacuum gauge was the same before and after.

I wonder about the plugs. These are the ones that Vernon had in and they went through the gasoline bath. Might one of them be bad?

Not to sidetrack the conversation, but I've been emailing with Luke of Big Blackie fame from FTE. You'll remember that he put a York compressor on Big Blackie for on-board air, and I asked how he did it.

He explained that he used a bracket made by North Country Specialities, but that he's not sure they are still making it. Turns out he got the prototype and the guy told him he was getting no orders so may not continue to market them. But, I've emailed him to see what the availability is, nonetheless. But, if he has them his web site says they are $250/ea.

Luke said the clutch bearing on his seized on his trip from Oregon to Kansas and he was stranded for a time as it stopped the belt from turning, and that's the one for the alternator as well. In fact, he said "...if I were to do it again I might be tempted to just put a Viair along the frame rail somewhere and call it good. If it went bad, oh well, the engine still runs. You would definitely be in for a lot less work to take the electric route."

That got me to thinking, so I checked out the Viair systems. Their Heavy Duty model is available for $288 from Amazon and is a complete system, including air tank, compressor, switch, etc. It puts out 2.62 CFM, but that is misleading as that is at 0 PSI, and anything above 40 PSI it goes below 2 CFM. Plus, it only has a 33% duty cycle. Further, it says it will take tires the size of those on Big Blue from 15 to 30 PSI in 2 minutes, but I normally run the tires at more like 40/45 PSI, and if they are loaded they are to have 80 PSI - although loaded is 3,750 lbs.

In contrast, the York/Tecumsehs I have are said to be the sought-after 10 CI ones, according to the Ranger Station. And, according to this page they put out ~6 CFM @ 90 PSI. So, I'd have gobs of air, but would have to piece together the "system", meaning add a tank, get a pressure switch, create the wiring, etc.

As for the potential of having the clutch bearing fail, I would think that I could also have a belt with me that was the correct size for the alternator w/o the compressor. Or, carry a spare clutch and belt. But, I've not seen a bearing failure like that and have been around a lot of vehicles with those compressors, so I think that is rare.

Thoughts?

 

[Ford F834]

Jonathan - What about a rubber mat over sprayed-in bed liner? Wouldn't the bed liner prevent the rust? And provide a bit of sound reduction? But, I take your point about a rubber mat over carpet, which would be easier to do. However, the carpet has to come out to put the ZF in as I'll have to go with the tall tranny cover, so could spray in the bed liner then. Maybe that's a good idea anyway if there's no rust?

Glad to see that the buckets (captain's chairs, actually) work, albeit with some issues. But at least they allow you to get situated correctly. And, I like the body-hugging part of them as well, which would come in handy for the overlanding/off-road part. Plus, if we do go to the North Rim, I already know it is a long drive out there, so the extra comfort won't go un-appreciated. As for trying Dad's in Big Blue, I wasn't thinking of doing so on that trip. Just around here to see that we like them.

On the console, it took a bit of machining to create the spacers for Dad's truck in order to use the later console. Yes, it doesn't look quite right, but only you and I know that, and it gives much better cup holders, although the early one can be modified.

Anyway, if you find you don't like your seats, perhaps you'll want to sell them and the seat track?

On the length issue, Big Blue sits high enough that I'm hoping it won't be a problem. And, from what I've seen in the pictures and videos, we won't be needing to turn too tightly. But, you've been all over that country and I haven't, so I'm sure you know much better than I do.

As for the weight, yes that could be an issue. But, with the weight comes bigger tires to spread the weight, so I'm hoping we won't have a problem. And the gentleman at 4wd Parts in Tulsa, who may join here as he has an '86 Bronco and wants a Bullnose shortbed, has a 90's F250 Crewcab long-bed and it is tricked out w/everything and he uses it almost every weekend for overlanding. However, until we get some experience it might be best to make the additions to Big Blue things that could also be moved over to a Bronco.

Bill - Thanks. If the EEC-V system isn't there when Dyn goes, I may put the EEC-IV system on. That was my thinking when I got the parts from Jim and bought Huck so I'd have plenty of parts. I'm assuming that a '95 F450's computer had OBD and it'll give some sort of diagnostics?

As for the miss, it comes and goes and isn't noticed except at the exhaust. There was a point yesterday when I put my foot over one tailpipe and heard it, but then it went away almost immediately. And the vacuum gauge was the same before and after.

I wonder about the plugs. These are the ones that Vernon had in and they went through the gasoline bath. Might one of them be bad?

Gary the bed liner stuff might help, but I can't help but recall the FTE discussion on the evils of undercoating and the ability for rust to grow under the coating. Any moisture trapped under the rubber will sweat and condense on the metal surface and be perpetually damp. With carpet at least it will wick out and evaporate. Maybe the bed liner would seal it well enough, but like I said I've seen enough that I've lost my taste for it. Since you can't just hose it out without getting water under the mat, it just does not seem much easier to clean and maintain than carpet with removable floor mats. I don't know what the noise level would be with bed liner and a rubber floor, but the noise level in my 1981 with the bare floor is just awful. I am really looking forward to getting some carpet in there to quiet it.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you needed a short wheelbase for the North Rim trip. I've not been on that route but I've been in the area and a regular truck should do just fine. I was simply speaking to the attributes that make a good back country vehicle in general.

I bought two of the 40/20/40 seat tracks. One for each truck. However, I am barely tolerating it in my single cab, and I really don't think I will want to use the other one in my crew cab. It will show too much from the back, and I really want the period correct console, seatbelt receivers etc., in that truck. So if you end up needing or wanting another 40/20/40 seat track for Big Blue that one is available. If you want me to watch for another good pair of seats I can. Jan found his by searching online junkyards. There were many in good shape and the freight by semi truck was reasonable. I say that just because the ones in my 1981 are a bit rough even if I don't keep them you might want better ones. I do recommend trying out the arrangement first to see how you like it.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, EEC-IV has the older interface, but, with the proper equipment the system will give live data so you can see what is going on. Matt had my old Snap-On MT2500 which works up til maybe 2000 YM I believe. He may consider parting with it as I don't think he has anything that it works with since he sold the Mustang.

Thanks, Bill. If I decide to go that way I'll contact Matt, although I'm not sure I still have his email address, so if you don't mind emailing it to me I would appreciate it.

Going with the EEC-IV system would actually be pretty easy as I have everything needed. In fact, I have this book coming in on Thursday:

But, do you know if the exhaust manifolds are different between the carb and EFI heads? If so, that would mean that I need to go with stock manifolds, which I have from Huck. And, it would solve the exhaust problem since I have a complete exhaust system, although it does have to be welded back together.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary the bed liner stuff might help, but I can't help but recall the FTE discussion on the evils of undercoating and the ability for rust to grow under the coating. Any moisture trapped under the rubber will sweat and condense on the metal surface and be perpetually damp. With carpet at least it will wick out and evaporate. Maybe the bed liner would seal it well enough, but like I said I've seen enough that I've lost my taste for it. Since you can't just hose it out without getting water under the mat, it just does not seem much easier to clean and maintain than carpet with removable floor mats. I don't know what the noise level would be with bed liner and a rubber floor, but the noise level in my 1981 with the bare floor is just awful. I am really looking forward to getting some carpet in there to quiet it.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you needed a short wheelbase for the North Rim trip. I've not been on that route but I've been in the area and a regular truck should do just fine. I was simply speaking to the attributes that make a good back country vehicle in general.

I bought two of the 40/20/40 seat tracks. One for each truck. However, I am barely tolerating it in my single cab, and I really don't think I will want to use the other one in my crew cab. It will show too much from the back, and I really want the period correct console, seatbelt receivers etc., in that truck. So if you end up needing or wanting another 40/20/40 seat track for Big Blue that one is available. If you want me to watch for another good pair of seats I can. Jan found his by searching online junkyards. There were many in good shape and the freight by semi truck was reasonable. I say that just because the ones in my 1981 are a bit rough even if I don't keep them you might want better ones. I do recommend trying out the arrangement first to see how you like it.

Jonathan - Thanks for the offer. I will keep it in mind, but you might watch for a good pair of captain's chairs in blue. And, hopefully soon, I'll try the ones I have in Big Blue so will know what I think of them.

But, you said "I am barely tolerating it in my single cab...". So, tell me more. That's not what I gathered from your previous post.

On the carpet/bed liner issue, I'm pretty sure to stay with carpet for the interim, but when it comes out for the ZF to go in it would be an ideal time to at least spray the bed liner in, even if I go back with carpet. At least it would be better sealed - I think.

 

[Ford F834]

But, you said "I am barely tolerating it in my single cab...". So, tell me more. That's not what I gathered from your previous post.

Sorry for the confusion on that. I love the seats and console in the regular cab. What I am barely tolerating is the 40/20/40 seat pan mounting system. Most of this is cosmetic. It shows too much. The individual chairs and console leave a lot of ugly black metal frame exposed and the early console sits too high (if front is shimmed/blocked) or it sits too far back if the slope is placed behind the pan. It interferes with the correct seat belt receivers (again cosmetic, but the 40/20/40 receivers look way different and have an integral center belt that needs cut off leaving slots in the sheath). The sliding track for the seat sticks out past the corner of the cushion and it kept catching my pant leg. I rounded it off with a file so it does not do that anymore, but it just looks and feels a bit like a hack. It may look better once I get black carpet in the truck and the frame will blend in. The receivers will basically be hidden by the console, and once mounted well everything may look and feel more like it came that way. The crew cab will show from the back and I just don't think it will be acceptable for me. And I might even opt for drilling and shimming the original seat tracks for both trucks if I don't like the end results with the seat pan and early console.