Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

[Gary Lewis]

It is a shame that Luke couldn't come, I was looking forward to meeting him. I guess on board air would be nice to have. I was going to mention an electric compressor and tire plug kit in addition to the extra spare. Does Luke have air lockers or what does he use his for?

Jonathan - Yes, I was really looking forward to meeting Luke and seeing Big Blackie. Perhaps next year. As for use of the compressor, I don't know about the lockers. I had assumed it was to air tires up after lowering their pressure for offroad use.

The reason I asked about the compressor at this stage of the game is that I have two nice aluminum alternator brackets for serpentine belts as a consequence of getting parts from Jim and also buying Huck. One is w/o air pump and one is with. And, if I want to have the compressor I thought I'd see if it would fit where the air pump was supposed to go. Otherwise I would use the non-AIR bracket to clean things up.

Ken - I can certainly understand your confusion re the evolving plans. But, the long-term plan is to have two trucks, Big Blue and Dad's. I would love to find a Bronco to add to the fleet, but unless my son and his family move somewhere that gives them an opportunity to use one, there's absolutely no need to do that.

So Big Blue is my "work truck". With the winch, front receiver, Detroit Trutrac diff's front and rear, 2000 CCA's of batteries, and tires that are rated for 3750 lbs each, it is quite capable. But for overlanding, which my son has wanted to do for some time, it needs more.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, because virtually all 460 powered trucks were >8500 lbs GVW they were exempt from OBD-II and air bags. One member on one of the FB groups called the MAF 460 computer a unicorn till I posted a picture of the label on my FEZ3 EEC. Ford actually built some EEC-V SD/BF computers for MT applications and anything >14000 GVW was exempt from even the California OBD-II requirement. Once you have the 1996 EVTM in hand you will see. I would look for a 1996/7 351W truck w/E4OD. It will have the front harness you need to use an EEC-V computer and will be MAF, you will still need a 90mm MAF for a 460.

You are at least closer to the left coast that I am, most of the actual CA spec stuff I have has come from Southern CA sources.

Bill - Somehow I missed this. Sorry, but thanks for it. Ok, not likely to find a 460 with MAF/SF, so go with something like a 351.

But, you said E4OD, and I think you forgot that Big Blue is a manual, currently with a T-19 and soon to be a ZF5. Don't I need a computer from a truck with a manual tranny? Or, can the auto part of the code be turned off?

Jonathan - You are even closer to the left coast. Does your salvage have any CA trucks? Like a '96 or '97 F250 w/a 460 that has the OBD-II port? And, by the way, have you done this trip? Would you be interested in doing it?

Anyway, this is all speculation on the need for EFI. I know I proposed it, but creates a huge amount of work. I've taken carbed vehicles to the South Rim and had no problem. So, if took a Strip Kit for the Eddy might I get by with the carb? I realize that the time to do it is when the engine is out, as the heads and intake have to be swapped and they are massive. But, that would be a LOT of work.

As for where we are in the planning, I think my son is very interested. We've batted back and forth a number of ideas of things needed, many of which overlap with ones we have discussed here. And, he suggested we do a trial run someplace in the MO, AR, OK, KS area.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - Somehow I missed this. Sorry, but thanks for it. Ok, not likely to find a 460 with MAF/SF, so go with something like a 351.

But, you said E4OD, and I think you forgot that Big Blue is a manual, currently with a T-19 and soon to be a ZF5. Don't I need a computer from a truck with a manual tranny? Or, can the auto part of the code be turned off?

Jonathan - You are even closer to the left coast. Does your salvage have any CA trucks? Like a '96 or '97 F250 w/a 460 that has the OBD-II port? And, by the way, have you done this trip? Would you be interested in doing it?

Anyway, this is all speculation on the need for EFI. I know I proposed it, but creates a huge amount of work. I've taken carbed vehicles to the South Rim and had no problem. So, if took a Strip Kit for the Eddy might I get by with the carb? I realize that the time to do it is when the engine is out, as the heads and intake have to be swapped and they are massive. But, that would be a LOT of work.

As for where we are in the planning, I think my son is very interested. We've batted back and forth a number of ideas of things needed, many of which overlap with ones we have discussed here. And, he suggested we do a trial run someplace in the MO, AR, OK, KS area.

Actually, if you go with an MT computer for MAF it wouldn't be a problem. Ford actually kept many of the MT trucks SD/BF up through 1996/7 on the heavier vehicles. As I said, I have an MT EEC-IV, and according to Jim, you have the 1995 one.

[Gary Lewis]

Actually, if you go with an MT computer for MAF it wouldn't be a problem. Ford actually kept many of the MT trucks SD/BF up through 1996/7 on the heavier vehicles. As I said, I have an MT EEC-IV, and according to Jim, you have the 1995 one.

Bill - Are you saying I might as well go SD/BF? I have everything I need in order to do that, so might as well use it?

The speed-density system doesn't adapt well to changes, but other than a probable compression increase and the very mild Edelbrock Performer cam, Big Blue has a rather stock 460. Would the SD system work with the minor changes? Man, that would make it easier.

[Ford F834]

Bill - Somehow I missed this. Sorry, but thanks for it. Ok, not likely to find a 460 with MAF/SF, so go with something like a 351.

But, you said E4OD, and I think you forgot that Big Blue is a manual, currently with a T-19 and soon to be a ZF5. Don't I need a computer from a truck with a manual tranny? Or, can the auto part of the code be turned off?

Jonathan - You are even closer to the left coast. Does your salvage have any CA trucks? Like a '96 or '97 F250 w/a 460 that has the OBD-II port? And, by the way, have you done this trip? Would you be interested in doing it?

Anyway, this is all speculation on the need for EFI. I know I proposed it, but creates a huge amount of work. I've taken carbed vehicles to the South Rim and had no problem. So, if took a Strip Kit for the Eddy might I get by with the carb? I realize that the time to do it is when the engine is out, as the heads and intake have to be swapped and they are massive. But, that would be a LOT of work.

As for where we are in the planning, I think my son is very interested. We've batted back and forth a number of ideas of things needed, many of which overlap with ones we have discussed here. And, he suggested we do a trial run someplace in the MO, AR, OK, KS area.

Gary, I honestly have no idea about the availablity of late 460 with OBDII in my area. I have not had any reason to pay attention to 460 stuff, but I am certainly willing to look if you give me details on what to look ~for.

As far as the necessity to go EFI, for remote trekking I really prefer the simplest vehicles with the least electronics. The fine trail dust and vibration is not kind to any sort of electrical equipment. Cars, laptops, cameras, GPS units, and other of my research gear has had a rough go on the Arizona Strip. That said, not many "car guys" in the Flagstaff area run Edelbrock carbs because they simply can't tune them right for this altitude. Not that it would leave you stranded, but it might not give optimal performance either. When you go very remote, you think a lot less about performance and a lot more about what will stay running and get you home, and what equipment can you actually repair on the side of the road if it does break down.

I have not gone the route suggested on the website. As I mentioned, I have only dabbled. Partly for safety reasons, but also my draw to the area was particular plant habitats, not the rim scenic views (although I would have like that!). I have been south of Fredonia in the Wolf Hole area, up the back roads to Jacob Lake, and to South Canyon, North Canyon and Badger Point to the east, and a lot of areas in Houserock Valley/Vermillion Cliffs. I would definitely be interested in going if you are receptive to having the company, provided I can arrange the time off etc., next year may prove to be an example the Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times", especially if my employer goes under.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - Are you saying I might as well go SD/BF? I have everything I need in order to do that, so might as well use it?

The speed-density system doesn't adapt well to changes, but other than a probable compression increase and the very mild Edelbrock Performer cam, Big Blue has a rather stock 460. Would the SD system work with the minor changes? Man, that would make it easier.

Gary, hook up a vacuum gauge and see (a) what kind of idle vacuum you get and (b) how steady it is.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I honestly have no idea about the availablity of late 460 with OBDII in my area. I have not had any reason to pay attention to 460 stuff, but I am certainly willing to look if you give me details on what to look ~for.

As far as the necessity to go EFI, for remote trekking I really prefer the simplest vehicles with the least electronics. The fine trail dust and vibration is not kind to any sort of electrical equipment. Cars, laptops, cameras, GPS units, and other of my research gear has had a rough go on the Arizona Strip. That said, not many "car guys" in the Flagstaff area run Edelbrock carbs because they simply can't tune them right for this altitude. Not that it would leave you stranded, but it might not give optimal performance either. When you go very remote, you think a lot less about performance and a lot more about what will stay running and get you home, and what equipment can you actually repair on the side of the road if it does break down.

I have not gone the route suggested on the website. As I mentioned, I have only dabbled. Partly for safety reasons, but also my draw to the area was particular plant habitats, not the rim scenic views (although I would have like that!). I have been south of Fredonia in the Wolf Hole area, up the back roads to Jacob Lake, and to South Canyon, North Canyon and Badger Point to the east, and a lot of areas in Houserock Valley/Vermillion Cliffs. I would definitely be interested in going if you are receptive to having the company, provided I can arrange the time off etc., next year may prove to be an example the Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times", especially if my employer goes under.

Jonathan - You have a very valid point. Simplicity is a good thing, especially when going to remote locations. And the existing Eddy is simple. Plus, I can tune it. In fact, if I were to put the wideband O2 meter on it would be easy to tune.

My guess is that I could set the carb up with a jet/rod combo that would be good for the ~700' elevation where I live, and then swap just the rods to get a good combo at 8000' on the North Rim. And rod swaps are duck soup - pull the air cleaner, loosen a screw, swivel the plate out of the way, swap the rod, and reverse the above procedure.

As for when to go, there is a remote chance we could get things together in time to go in late Spring of 2018, which I've read is an ideal time as the plants are blooming. A better chance for 2018 would be around Thanksgiving as the crew did in that link. But, my son has already said that we shouldn't go alone, so I know he would welcome you. And, you know that I would.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, hook up a vacuum gauge and see (a) what kind of idle vacuum you get and (b) how steady it is.

Will do, Bill. But it'll be high teens if not 20" and pretty steady - unless there really is a miss at idle, which is something I need to chase.

Are you saying that a smooth idle with strong vacuum suggests that I have a strong engine with essentially stock spec's, and that SD will work?

[85lebaront2]

Will do, Bill. But it'll be high teens if not 20" and pretty steady - unless there really is a miss at idle, which is something I need to chase.

Are you saying that a smooth idle with strong vacuum suggests that I have a strong engine with essentially stock spec's, and that SD will work?

Exactly, if you have low pulsating vacuum at idle, then the SD MAP sensor goes batshit trying to figure out what is happening. You only need a single O2 sensor for the SD system, Ford put it at the H just ahead of the catalytic converter.

[Gary Lewis]

Exactly, if you have low pulsating vacuum at idle, then the SD MAP sensor goes batshit trying to figure out what is happening. You only need a single O2 sensor for the SD system, Ford put it at the H just ahead of the catalytic converter.

Bill - I'll check later on the vacuum. But, one of the reasons it would be easy to SD big blue is that Huck is already set up for it and I have everything. See the pic below for the O2 sensor, which has the appropriate harness. So, I could go with the EFI intake and heads, but also the exhaust off of Huck with that O2 sensor. I have the rest of it with mufflers, so would just have to weld it back together and bolt it on. Obviously that does away with the L&L headers, but.....

Now for an update. Dropped the E4OD off at the tranny shop, which will be 'splained on that thread, soon. Then stopped at 4 Wheel Parts, where I got the winch and other things. Talked to Corey Marshall, who said he will sign up on here as he has an '86 Bronco and wants to find a Bullnose shortbed. Anyway, he also has a '96 F250 setup for overlanding and gave me a bunch of good tips about equipment as well as how to find places to overland in this region. More on that later.

Anyway, here's the pic of the rear of Huck, and you can see the O2 sensor in the lower left corner. It serves both exhaust pipes from its one location.