Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

[Gary Lewis]

I will bet once you position it on Big Blue, you will probably find it fits better up top. Darth has the power steering return "cooler" on the cross member and the outlet goes right up into the bottom of the reservoir.

The problem, albeit minor, is that both the brake return and the steering return want to use the bottom return port. I know the brake used that one on the 1995 F450 from whence the equipment came because that's exactly where the hose wants to go. And the current return on Big Blue goes there as well. So, one of those will need to change, and I'm sure it will be the steering return. That's because it is just a simple hose while the brake hose is molded onto a metal line that screws into the hydro-boost system.

Anyway, that's a very minor problem.

[grumpin]

The problem, albeit minor, is that both the brake return and the steering return want to use the bottom return port. I know the brake used that one on the 1995 F450 from whence the equipment came because that's exactly where the hose wants to go. And the current return on Big Blue goes there as well. So, one of those will need to change, and I'm sure it will be the steering return. That's because it is just a simple hose while the brake hose is molded onto a metal line that screws into the hydro-boost system.

Anyway, that's a very minor problem.

Just a comment, My wife's 98 Suburban has Hydro Boost.

It was a long time before I even realized it!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Just a comment, My wife's 98 Suburban has Hydro Boost.

It was a long time before I even realized it!

As do a lot of passenger cars like Lincoln's and Mustangs.

Gary, You are going to really like having brakes that work.

Speaking of which, I noticed that my parking brake cables were frozen the other morning.

I have to address that and adjust those drums soon.

[Gary Lewis]

As do a lot of passenger cars like Lincoln's and Mustangs.

Gary, You are going to really like having brakes that work.

Speaking of which, I noticed that my parking brake cables were frozen the other morning.

I have to address that and adjust those drums soon.

I wasn't aware that vehicles other than diesels and big trucks had hydro-boost. But, thinking of that, I wonder what my wife's GLK has since it is diesel?

Anyway, I am looking forward to better brakes. Big Blue's are just OK, but nothing to write home about. This should make a big change - when the time comes. I'm just planning at this point as I don't want to have him down for reconstruction when my son and I decide to take a weekend trip to try out this overlanding idea. But, once we've done that and are committed then I'll tear into him.

[Nothing Special]

Not to sidetrack the conversation, but I've been emailing with Luke of Big Blackie fame from FTE. You'll remember that he put a York compressor on Big Blackie for on-board air, and I asked how he did it.

He explained that he used a bracket made by North Country Specialities, but that he's not sure they are still making it. Turns out he got the prototype and the guy told him he was getting no orders so may not continue to market them. But, I've emailed him to see what the availability is, nonetheless. But, if he has them his web site says they are $250/ea.

Luke said the clutch bearing on his seized on his trip from Oregon to Kansas and he was stranded for a time as it stopped the belt from turning, and that's the one for the alternator as well. In fact, he said "...if I were to do it again I might be tempted to just put a Viair along the frame rail somewhere and call it good. If it went bad, oh well, the engine still runs. You would definitely be in for a lot less work to take the electric route."

That got me to thinking, so I checked out the Viair systems. Their Heavy Duty model is available for $288 from Amazon and is a complete system, including air tank, compressor, switch, etc. It puts out 2.62 CFM, but that is misleading as that is at 0 PSI, and anything above 40 PSI it goes below 2 CFM. Plus, it only has a 33% duty cycle. Further, it says it will take tires the size of those on Big Blue from 15 to 30 PSI in 2 minutes, but I normally run the tires at more like 40/45 PSI, and if they are loaded they are to have 80 PSI - although loaded is 3,750 lbs.

In contrast, the York/Tecumsehs I have are said to be the sought-after 10 CI ones, according to the Ranger Station. And, according to this page they put out ~6 CFM @ 90 PSI. So, I'd have gobs of air, but would have to piece together the "system", meaning add a tank, get a pressure switch, create the wiring, etc.

As for the potential of having the clutch bearing fail, I would think that I could also have a belt with me that was the correct size for the alternator w/o the compressor. Or, carry a spare clutch and belt. But, I've not seen a bearing failure like that and have been around a lot of vehicles with those compressors, so I think that is rare.

Thoughts?

I've been out for a while (took my wife on a Caribbean cruise) so I'm behind on the threads here, and haven't read all of this one yet. So I apologize if what I'm saying is out of date.

With a 3/4 ton truck you will want to air the tires down on the trail. It really helps keep the suspension from beating you up. I used to run 15 psi in 235/85-16 load range E tires on my CJ5 (yeah, not the best choice of tires for that vehicle). That worked pretty well, but you might want to try 20 or so on Big Blue.

The main point of that is you will want on-board air to get the tires back up to road pressure. I have a Viair electric on my Bronco. I don't recall the model, but I'm pretty sure it's rated for 100% duty cycle (I know I think that's important and I don't think I'd have ordered this one if it wasn't). it takes 15~20 minutes to bring four 33x10.50-15 tires from 15 to 35 psi, so it's not fast, but it works.

An air tank helps for a while, but then it slows you down. I've got a 2.5 gallon tank on my Bronco. If I get it up to 100 psi before I start airing up, the first tire gets to 35 psi very quickly, but by the second it's slowed down a lot, and then you're trying to fill the tire and the tank. What I often do is fill one or two tires, then drive a little farther until the tank is full again before stopping to fill the others.

I've thought about a York, but the install does get more complicated, and as noted earlier in the thread, if you have trouble with it it can affect the engine.

There are better electrics, but the cost goes up a lot to get a really good 12V compressor.

Another interesting option is a CO2 tank (like PowerTank). Not that cheap to buy, and you can only get maybe 12 - 16 tires filled before you need to get it recharged. But really fast, and not that hard or expensive to get recharged (from what I hear).

And on the size, I took my '85 F-250HD on a fourwheeling / camping trip back in '94. I took it over some pretty serious rocks, and on some really tight switchbacks (check out the road up Mount Antero in Colorado on YouTube). It was a handful compared to my Bronco or my old CJ5. But you need to get into really serious stuff before the size becomes a real problem.

[Gary Lewis]

I've been out for a while (took my wife on a Caribbean cruise) so I'm behind on the threads here, and haven't read all of this one yet. So I apologize if what I'm saying is out of date.

With a 3/4 ton truck you will want to air the tires down on the trail. It really helps keep the suspension from beating you up. I used to run 15 psi in 235/85-16 load range E tires on my CJ5 (yeah, not the best choice of tires for that vehicle). That worked pretty well, but you might want to try 20 or so on Big Blue.

The main point of that is you will want on-board air to get the tires back up to road pressure. I have a Viair electric on my Bronco. I don't recall the model, but I'm pretty sure it's rated for 100% duty cycle (I know I think that's important and I don't think I'd have ordered this one if it wasn't). it takes 15~20 minutes to bring four 33x10.50-15 tires from 15 to 35 psi, so it's not fast, but it works.

An air tank helps for a while, but then it slows you down. I've got a 2.5 gallon tank on my Bronco. If I get it up to 100 psi before I start airing up, the first tire gets to 35 psi very quickly, but by the second it's slowed down a lot, and then you're trying to fill the tire and the tank. What I often do is fill one or two tires, then drive a little farther until the tank is full again before stopping to fill the others.

I've thought about a York, but the install does get more complicated, and as noted earlier in the thread, if you have trouble with it it can affect the engine.

There are better electrics, but the cost goes up a lot to get a really good 12V compressor.

Another interesting option is a CO2 tank (like PowerTank). Not that cheap to buy, and you can only get maybe 12 - 16 tires filled before you need to get it recharged. But really fast, and not that hard or expensive to get recharged (from what I hear).

And on the size, I took my '85 F-250HD on a fourwheeling / camping trip back in '94. I took it over some pretty serious rocks, and on some really tight switchbacks (check out the road up Mount Antero in Colorado on YouTube). It was a handful compared to my Bronco or my old CJ5. But you need to get into really serious stuff before the size becomes a real problem.

Bob - Welcome back! Hope the cruise was wonderful, and good plan to take your wife on a great vacation.

Yes, I agree that I'll need to air-down, and had wondered how far down I would need to or could go. But, there's always the airing back up. Assuming your Viair system is the 10007, which is their constant-duty one, the CFM @ 30 PSI is about 1.5. But the York is between 6 and 8 at even higher pressure, so would cut the time by a factor of 4 or more.

So, I'm interested in the York, or Tecumseh. In fact, I have been interested in it for quite some time since Luke did it. And, with what I found the other day I think it will be easy to make a bracket for the 460's with serpentine belt systems. And, since I have a compressor and a portable air tank it should be a fairly inexpensive project. About all I need is a new clutch with a serpentine pulley, some hose, and an oil trap.

As for the mobility of the long-bed F250, everything I'm reading says that starting out with a Bronco, like I wanted to do, isn't the way to go. Yes, they are certainly more nimble. But, their GVWR doesn't allow loading them up like most people do. In fact, what I've read says most people have their vehicles overloaded before they add passengers and fuel. Don't think that'll be a problem on Big Blue. And, apparently the roads or trails we want to take aren't technical enough to cause a problem. I think we have a winner!

[85lebaront2]

Bob - Welcome back! Hope the cruise was wonderful, and good plan to take your wife on a great vacation.

Yes, I agree that I'll need to air-down, and had wondered how far down I would need to or could go. But, there's always the airing back up. Assuming your Viair system is the 10007, which is their constant-duty one, the CFM @ 30 PSI is about 1.5. But the York is between 6 and 8 at even higher pressure, so would cut the time by a factor of 4 or more.

So, I'm interested in the York, or Tecumseh. In fact, I have been interested in it for quite some time since Luke did it. And, with what I found the other day I think it will be easy to make a bracket for the 460's with serpentine belt systems. And, since I have a compressor and a portable air tank it should be a fairly inexpensive project. About all I need is a new clutch with a serpentine pulley, some hose, and an oil trap.

As for the mobility of the long-bed F250, everything I'm reading says that starting out with a Bronco, like I wanted to do, isn't the way to go. Yes, they are certainly more nimble. But, their GVWR doesn't allow loading them up like most people do. In fact, what I've read says most people have their vehicles overloaded before they add passengers and fuel. Don't think that'll be a problem on Big Blue. And, apparently the roads or trails we want to take aren't technical enough to cause a problem. I think we have a winner!

Gary, a long time ago I was reading about using a York or Tecumseh twin for an air compressor, The suction chest on those goes into the sump so yes you would need an oil separator, but I seem to recall there was a way to block the passage, since the crankcase pressure would be pretty static due to being a vertical twin and just put a breather in place of one of the fill plugs and use motor oil in the sump, probably a slight overfill so the rods actually splash it around.

Get an old electric air compressor tank that will stand 90-100 psi, use a pressure switch to cycle the clutch off and on as needed once you activate it. Stick the tank outboard of the frame on the right side and you could even plumb air to both sides and ends.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, a long time ago I was reading about using a York or Tecumseh twin for an air compressor, The suction chest on those goes into the sump so yes you would need an oil separator, but I seem to recall there was a way to block the passage, since the crankcase pressure would be pretty static due to being a vertical twin and just put a breather in place of one of the fill plugs and use motor oil in the sump, probably a slight overfill so the rods actually splash it around.

Get an old electric air compressor tank that will stand 90-100 psi, use a pressure switch to cycle the clutch off and on as needed once you activate it. Stick the tank outboard of the frame on the right side and you could even plumb air to both sides and ends.

Mine is the single cylinder, and should be the 10 ci version, not the 6 or 8, as the 10 is supposedly what Ford used in these trucks. It is said to be extremely capable.

As for the tank, I had the perfect one. A friend donated a compressor that would no longer pump up pressure. But, a little research showed that the likely cause was broken reed valves. So, for $15 I fixed it and will be taking it to my son. However, I have a portable air tank that I never use and it is plenty big enough. And I've been eyeing that exact spot on the right side. As you say, a pressure switch to control it, and a switch in the cab to enable it.

As for the bearing on the clutch freezing and causing problems, I'm not changing the alternator's position at all, so I'll carry the original alternator belt and it'll fit over just the alternator if needed. Problem solved.

[Nothing Special]

....As for the mobility of the long-bed F250, everything I'm reading says that starting out with a Bronco, like I wanted to do, isn't the way to go. Yes, they are certainly more nimble. But, their GVWR doesn't allow loading them up like most people do. In fact, what I've read says most people have their vehicles overloaded before they add passengers and fuel. Don't think that'll be a problem on Big Blue. And, apparently the roads or trails we want to take aren't technical enough to cause a problem. I think we have a winner!

Yep, the cruise was great!

As to trails not being technical enough to cause a problem, they can be a lot more technical than you might think and still not be an insurmountable problem. This is a picture of my old CJ5 on a trail in Colorado called Spring Creek Trail. I drove my '85 up it as well (but don't have pictures of that). And that was with stock size tires, no lift, open diffs and no winch. It was an adventure! But we did make it. I don't see any overlanding in my future (we just bought a 28' motorhome a year ago), so I like the smaller size of the early Bronco. But you can do an awful lot with an F-250.

(I guess I don't know how to post pictures here directly, but I think this link works to get the picture)

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/640x480/80-picture_php_pictureid_125617_b47ba984adbdc12a637d2a7b71e198293fa8a20f.jpg

 

[Gary Lewis]

....As for the mobility of the long-bed F250, everything I'm reading says that starting out with a Bronco, like I wanted to do, isn't the way to go. Yes, they are certainly more nimble. But, their GVWR doesn't allow loading them up like most people do. In fact, what I've read says most people have their vehicles overloaded before they add passengers and fuel. Don't think that'll be a problem on Big Blue. And, apparently the roads or trails we want to take aren't technical enough to cause a problem. I think we have a winner!

Yep, the cruise was great!

As to trails not being technical enough to cause a problem, they can be a lot more technical than you might think and still not be an insurmountable problem. This is a picture of my old CJ5 on a trail in Colorado called Spring Creek Trail. I drove my '85 up it as well (but don't have pictures of that). And that was with stock size tires, no lift, open diffs and no winch. It was an adventure! But we did make it. I don't see any overlanding in my future (we just bought a 28' motorhome a year ago), so I like the smaller size of the early Bronco. But you can do an awful lot with an F-250.

(I guess I don't know how to post pictures here directly, but I think this link works to get the picture)

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/640x480/80-picture_php_pictureid_125617_b47ba984adbdc12a637d2a7b71e198293fa8a20f.jpg

Nabble doesn't like that pic's URL from FTE, so I down loaded it, hit Insert Image, then Choose File and picked it, then Insert Image and there it is.

Yes, that's technical. But the '85 made it with open diff's. Here's a link to a trip several took to Utah, and this is the kind of country we are wanting to tackle. Here's the toughest spot they got into, and they all made it - with open diff's. So, I'm thinking that Big Blue's Trutrac diff's will help a lot in conditions like that.

However, one thing that has me wondering is the stiffness of the rear springs. Maybe by the time we get the truck loaded there will be some give in the springs, but there sure isn't much now. I'm wondering about removing a leaf or two and going with air bags since we will have on-board air.