Gary Lewis Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 If the "idle is completely different" with the spout out (locked timing) maybe your ecu is the problem? Or one of the sensors the ecu uses to determine timing? Temp, vacuum, throttle position, etc... Of course it would be, just like connecting vacuum to DSII. But if it is hunting around, makes me think the computer's being tricked. Before rebuilding the engine, assuming that a leak-down test suggests that's needed, I wonder about slipping in a DS-II dizzy and harness, coil, and box. That would bypass the ECU and determine if that's the problem. Or, maybe just run the initial timing up to as far advanced as it'll idle with, leave the timing locked w/the SPOUT, and take it for a drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 If the "idle is completely different" with the spout out (locked timing) maybe your ecu is the problem? Or one of the sensors the ecu uses to determine timing? Temp, vacuum, throttle position, etc... Of course it would be, just like connecting vacuum to DSII. But if it is hunting around, makes me think the computer's being tricked. Missed this. Moving from 10 BTDC and 30 BTDC would change the idle, right? My comment was to indicate that the ECU was indeed changing the timing. When I bought the truck, the timing was over-advanced like it was adjusted to "good" idle (~30BTDC) with SPOUT disconnected, not the 10BTDC specified. Not sure if such may have burnt something up... ---- Due to my ranger blowing a brake line during a pre-trip oil change, I had the fun task of driving this truck for a 1460 mile drive across the midwest... From my home in Madison, IN, to a friend in Salem, MO, to Manhattan, KS (Brother inlaw graduating from Kansas State), and then back home, partially though a snowstorm. She struggled on the way home. Ran into issues with the alternator belt slipping to the point of the battery going dead (had to attempt to tighten it up, get a jump, and then balance my electrical loads to stop the squeal). Had issues with intermittent misfiring under low-RPM torque loads- cylinder 1 suspected- pulled the plug at one fuel stop to see if it was the problem, but dropped the plug in the motor mount where i couldn't get to it. Good thing I had the box of four extra plugs with me in the cab. I also suspect that my exhaust issues got worse because I'm hearing more exhast noise, but since it's only on a couple cylinders (from the sound), I'm hoping I didn't crack the manifold. Once I escaped snowpalcaplse, it got better... but due to lots of interstate hills and an engine that won't provide stable torque, I was constantly shifting in and out of overdrive. Based on this, I'm thinking something is mechanically toast since the misfire is only one one cylinder, and is torque related (all my compression blowing by rather than pushing the engine forward)... So much so, perhaps a short or long block may be a safer bet since I don't know what I'll find and machine shop fees add up. Dunno. Would be a later winter/spring project no matter what I do. Need to get a proper engine stand/hoist first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Missed this. Moving from 10 BTDC and 30 BTDC would change the idle, right? My comment was to indicate that the ECU was indeed changing the timing. When I bought the truck, the timing was over-advanced like it was adjusted to "good" idle (~30BTDC) with SPOUT disconnected, not the 10BTDC specified. Not sure if such may have burnt something up... ---- Due to my ranger blowing a brake line during a pre-trip oil change, I had the fun task of driving this truck for a 1460 mile drive across the midwest... From my home in Madison, IN, to a friend in Salem, MO, to Manhattan, KS (Brother inlaw graduating from Kansas State), and then back home, partially though a snowstorm. She struggled on the way home. Ran into issues with the alternator belt slipping to the point of the battery going dead (had to attempt to tighten it up, get a jump, and then balance my electrical loads to stop the squeal). Had issues with intermittent misfiring under low-RPM torque loads- cylinder 1 suspected- pulled the plug at one fuel stop to see if it was the problem, but dropped the plug in the motor mount where i couldn't get to it. Good thing I had the box of four extra plugs with me in the cab. I also suspect that my exhaust issues got worse because I'm hearing more exhast noise, but since it's only on a couple cylinders (from the sound), I'm hoping I didn't crack the manifold. Once I escaped snowpalcaplse, it got better... but due to lots of interstate hills and an engine that won't provide stable torque, I was constantly shifting in and out of overdrive. Based on this, I'm thinking something is mechanically toast since the misfire is only one one cylinder, and is torque related (all my compression blowing by rather than pushing the engine forward)... So much so, perhaps a short or long block may be a safer bet since I don't know what I'll find and machine shop fees add up. Dunno. Would be a later winter/spring project no matter what I do. Need to get a proper engine stand/hoist first. The ignition timing changing would definitely change the idle speed, that's why you always have to adjust curb idle after reconnecting the vacuum line with a DuraSpark setup. Same same with spout on EEC-X, I'd assume. I would do a leakdown test and see why that one cylinder seems to be acting up. What's up with the alternator being so heavily loaded? Or is it just a glazed belt? At least you got snow! I had a half inch of ice on my truck.. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 The ignition timing changing would definitely change the idle speed, that's why you always have to adjust curb idle after reconnecting the vacuum line with a DuraSpark setup. Same same with spout on EEC-X, I'd assume. I would do a leakdown test and see why that one cylinder seems to be acting up. What's up with the alternator being so heavily loaded? Or is it just a glazed belt? At least you got snow! I had a half inch of ice on my truck.. Will do a leakdown the next time I have compressed air access with the truck (Xmas?) I can't get the belt tight enough. Too much deflection. Belt probably isn't too good from slipping (was replaced right after I bought it, the old one was tattered) No provisions to attach a serpentine belt tool (breaker bar) like on the AC and PS... and levering it with a bar helped but not enough to matter. Is there some deep secret to tensioning the alternator? I drove through ice too. Going through eastern MO on Monday was snow, which changed to freezing rain/sleet in western IL (on I-64), which became rain from Mt. Vernon onward. At least I put fresh tires on the back (didn't trust my racing baldini's on a long winter trip). I agree, 1/2" of ice is indeed worse... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Will do a leakdown the next time I have compressed air access with the truck (Xmas?) I can't get the belt tight enough. Too much deflection. Belt probably isn't too good from slipping (was replaced right after I bought it, the old one was tattered) No provisions to attach a serpentine belt tool (breaker bar) like on the AC and PS... and levering it with a bar helped but not enough to matter. Is there some deep secret to tensioning the alternator? I drove through ice too. Going through eastern MO on Monday was snow, which changed to freezing rain/sleet in western IL (on I-64), which became rain from Mt. Vernon onward. At least I put fresh tires on the back (didn't trust my racing baldini's on a long winter trip). I agree, 1/2" of ice is indeed worse... :( Well, that isn't right, the belt shouldn't be slipping. And you shouldn't tighten too much, it will kill the bearings. Belts are cheap. Get a good one. Gates or Dayco. Sand the sheave clean while you have it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Well, that isn't right, the belt shouldn't be slipping. And you shouldn't tighten too much, it will kill the bearings. Belts are cheap. Get a good one. Gates or Dayco. Sand the sheave clean while you have it off. Dad had a trick to make v-belts quit slipping. He laid a round file or rasp in the sheave and hit it with a mallet. Turned the sheave and did it again, until there were serrations all the way around. Probably didn't help the belts live a long and happy life, but they didn't dare squeal after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Dad had a trick to make v-belts quit slipping. He laid a round file or rasp in the sheave and hit it with a mallet. Turned the sheave and did it again, until there were serrations all the way around. Probably didn't help the belts live a long and happy life, but they didn't dare squeal after that. Probably didn't help the races of the alternator bearings either, getting their balls smashed like that. But that's why I said use sandpaper, to give it some tooth. I think I'd suggested sand blasting yours in the cabinet, Gary. Ratdude says too much deflection, so maybe he needs a 1/2" shorter belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Probably didn't help the races of the alternator bearings either, getting their balls smashed like that. But that's why I said use sandpaper, to give it some tooth. I think I'd suggested sand blasting yours in the cabinet, Gary. Ratdude says too much deflection, so maybe he needs a 1/2" shorter belt? No, it probably didn't help the bearings. But I'm not sure which was worse - that or over-tightening the belt. As for blasting, the media I'm currently using is so fine that it wouldn't leave much tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 No, it probably didn't help the bearings. But I'm not sure which was worse - that or over-tightening the belt. As for blasting, the media I'm currently using is so fine that it wouldn't leave much tooth. I think it was in one of the 3G threads regarding chirp. Yes, I know you're not running black beauty, or stone dust like we use in a 100# pressure pot to clean stone. At any rate, too much deflection can't equal too tight. So, my mistake. He's asking for a better way to tension it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampedout Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I think it was in one of the 3G threads regarding chirp. Yes, I know you're not running black beauty, or stone dust like we use in a 100# pressure pot to clean stone. At any rate, too much deflection can't equal too tight. So, my mistake. He's asking for a better way to tension it.. Im sorry if this has already been discussed and eliminated as a possible source of the problem but I read that the stalling occurs when cold. My transmission is a little tired and when I push the truck up a hill when the trans hasnt warmed up it will stall and die. Does your trans slip at all while driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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