ratdude747 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 I get you. Probably the same part, just different ID's. The number I reported was cast into the gear. Not that it matters since I'm not replacing it; this was just to confirm that the engine is (probably) stock. I deal with this with Toyota all the time (I'm an engineer for a Tier 1 Supplier). They do it (part/engineering numberr) as "general number" - "ID number"-"revision-"dash code". The "dash code" indicates a singular master component, in my world (body shell stampings and assemblies), usually to call out a stamping that receives welded fasteners ("-99", usually) as a "complete" part/subassembly, before the fasteners are welded (raw stamping). On the floor though, nobody uses them. Instead, they use the Kanban number (kanban is a paper tag used to ID a container of a part, used to manage inventory)... but that's only within our company. Toyota also uses Kanbans (hell, they invented them!), but they use a completely different numbering system that we only use when tagging containers about to hit a truck (pulled from inventory). Why? The Kanban is a letter and 3 digits, and is in big characters on the tags they use. Three "numbers", same part/assembly Story time: What ****s us up when we have an assembly we sell them, but within that assembly there are sometimes sub-assemblies called out and assigned engineering numbers, often that are made in-situ (within the same line that produces the main assembly). Mass production doesn't purchase them like that (unless it's used a la carte on a later vehicle design) ... but Service Parts sometimes does! When dealing with service parts made on current mass production equipment, this can sometimes be a confusing mess since half the time they invent new numbers (the whole "-99" thing, only in reverse, not every stamping with fasteners initially gets a sub-assembly number); usually, they just want the big stampings separately with any fasteners and brackets welded on (not an entire assembly which can contain several big stampings), but not always. In one case, we have an assembly that contains two sub-assemblies (one is a stamping with a critical reinforcement, the other was originally one stamping that was split in two due to being too "deep" to efficiently stamp)... but they're made in one fixture in two stations all at once. Surprisingly, all Service has ordered is the full assembly, not the sub-assemblies or raw stampings... thankfully, since we don't have a way to make the sub-assemblies by themselves (but if we needed to, it could be done, it's all just control system and robot programming that would need to change, which is what I do!). The other way this dicks things up is for parts we no longer make in mass production (typically, part production contracts include minimum 10 years of service part production after part leaves mass production)... people see the engineering number with a weird dash code and think "oh, they want stamping xxxxx, that dash is because it's discontinued", only to get a quality problem from service department because the fasteners they ordered were missing; that dash code was a poorly communicated "new part" created for/by service! In one case, we apparently ****ed this up for 2 years before somebody on Toyota's end noticed... good thing we have a service part facility that can more or less weld anything! Sucks for the body repair techs who had to hand-weld nuts not realizing that was our goof, not theirs. Doh! Good news: I made it through to the suggested shop and left my crank to get polished. Bad news: I didn't like my crosshatch pattern on my hone job, and re-honed the cylinders. The pattern looks better, but now I can feel the "marks" seen previously (and also see that they like below the honed area). I also now see piston slap marks not previously visible. I'm looking at a bore job, and a return/exchange on my pistons and rings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Good news: I made it through to the suggested shop and left my crank to get polished. Bad news: I didn't like my crosshatch pattern on my hone job, and re-honed the cylinders. The pattern looks better, but now I can feel the "marks" seen previously (and also see that they like below the honed area). I also now see piston slap marks not previously visible. I'm looking at a bore job, and a return/exchange on my pistons and rings? I does sound like a bore job is in the offing. And therefore an exchange on the pistons. But you'll also need the block hot-tanked as the shop probably won't work on it dirty. In the long run this will be for the best since you'll effectively have a new engine. But have them check the crank to ensure it is round rather than just polish it. It won't cost much more and gives you the longest life on your bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 I does sound like a bore job is in the offing. And therefore an exchange on the pistons. But you'll also need the block hot-tanked as the shop probably won't work on it dirty. In the long run this will be for the best since you'll effectively have a new engine. But have them check the crank to ensure it is round rather than just polish it. It won't cost much more and gives you the longest life on your bearings. A week has passed, and the guy will not pick up his phone or return calls/voice mails. He has my crank; I still have the block, head, and main bearing caps in the back of my Ranger (the bores have flash rusted a bit, but that will be bored out anyway). The ranger has a camper shell, so it's not directly in the elements. I know it's not good to be dragging it everywhere, but I'm too lazy to bother pulling it and re-mounting it to the stand. I was told "it will be a few days"... I never was calling about the crank, I've specifically mentioned that I was calling to see about additional work. I kept professional, being to the point. I drove past the guy's shop on Friday... but didn't go in since he doesn't have business hours and while somebody was there (truck with an open door, was gone when I passed again on my way home). The good news is I more or less have 2 more weeks "off" ("working" from home). Expected to turn into 3 but no official word yet (Toyota and Nissan, my employer's customers, have to make that call). The bad news is my patience is wearing thin. I hope the guy is OK... otherwise, how hard is it to return a phone call? I hope I didn't tick him off without trying. Just trying to get things queued up... In the mean time, I've painted my tins, and am out of things to do more or less. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 A week has passed, and the guy will not pick up his phone or return calls/voice mails. He has my crank; I still have the block, head, and main bearing caps in the back of my Ranger (the bores have flash rusted a bit, but that will be bored out anyway). The ranger has a camper shell, so it's not directly in the elements. I know it's not good to be dragging it everywhere, but I'm too lazy to bother pulling it and re-mounting it to the stand. I was told "it will be a few days"... I never was calling about the crank, I've specifically mentioned that I was calling to see about additional work. I kept professional, being to the point. I drove past the guy's shop on Friday... but didn't go in since he doesn't have business hours and while somebody was there (truck with an open door, was gone when I passed again on my way home). The good news is I more or less have 2 more weeks "off" ("working" from home). Expected to turn into 3 but no official word yet (Toyota and Nissan, my employer's customers, have to make that call). The bad news is my patience is wearing thin. I hope the guy is OK... otherwise, how hard is it to return a phone call? I hope I didn't tick him off without trying. Just trying to get things queued up... In the mean time, I've painted my tins, and am out of things to do more or less. Ugh. That's a bad feeling. Been there, felt that. Don't know if you need to keep calling, need to go by and talk to him, or if the damage is already done. In my experience it has always worked out well. It was something like he's hunkered down and someone else used his shop. Or he just doesn't use the phone. Or somesuch. So hang in there, I bet it will work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 That's a bad feeling. Been there, felt that. Don't know if you need to keep calling, need to go by and talk to him, or if the damage is already done. In my experience it has always worked out well. It was something like he's hunkered down and someone else used his shop. Or he just doesn't use the phone. Or somesuch. So hang in there, I bet it will work out. Yep. Pulled the block, head, and main caps inside last night... will lay low for a bit. What happens, happens. Worst case, I'm out a crank, and I go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 Yep. Pulled the block, head, and main caps inside last night... will lay low for a bit. What happens, happens. Worst case, I'm out a crank, and I go from there. Heard back. He's been busy working on a house. We're cool. I'll be dropping off the goodies tomorrow afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Heard back. He's been busy working on a house. We're cool. I'll be dropping off the goodies tomorrow afternoon. Well that's good news! Is he supplying components, or are you? I'm up to my butt in rust and rot this afternoon, with no end in sight. Back to the (literal) grind... 😐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Heard back. He's been busy working on a house. We're cool. I'll be dropping off the goodies tomorrow afternoon. Good news! It is frequently something like this in the end, but while you are in the middle of it that's hard to understand. If you have an option I'd consider having him supply the parts. It may cost more, but he will get parts that work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 Well that's good news! Is he supplying components, or are you? I'm up to my butt in rust and rot this afternoon, with no end in sight. Back to the (literal) grind... 😐 I was going to supply the parts... What I'll ask for is measurements on the crank and bores so I know what sizes to order (already mailed back the stuff to rockauto). What he will do is (per a phone call): -Polish the crank -Hot tank and bore the block -Hot tank and magnaflux the head I'm thinking about having the cam bearings swapped as well. The camshaft bearing journals are in very good condition, which is why I wasn't going to mess with the bearings. At the same time, "there's no better time". I'll re-lap the valves... the valve seats looked to be in good shape, so other than being full of carbon (and being dropped by dumbass here), I'm not worried about the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 I was going to supply the parts... What I'll ask for is measurements on the crank and bores so I know what sizes to order (already mailed back the stuff to rockauto). What he will do is (per a phone call): -Polish the crank -Hot tank and bore the block -Hot tank and magnaflux the head I'm thinking about having the cam bearings swapped as well. The camshaft bearing journals are in very good condition, which is why I wasn't going to mess with the bearings. At the same time, "there's no better time". I'll re-lap the valves... the valve seats looked to be in good shape, so other than being full of carbon (and being dropped by dumbass here), I'm not worried about the head. The hot tank will destroy the cam bearings. And on the heads, you should consider new seals at least. And see if the valves rock in the guides. If so, they are worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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